Forum - View topicThe X Button - Excused Absences
|
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Fencedude5609
 Posts: 5088 |
|
|||||
Man, you just can't [expletive] help yourself, can you? |
||||||
|
||||||
Mohawk52
 Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
|
|||||
|
||||||
|
||||||
Cecilthedarkknight_234
 Posts: 3820 Location: Louisville, KY |
|
|||||
at least her body is more real than most pop-idols here in the states BAZING! |
||||||
|
||||||
Draneor
 Posts: 355 |
|
|||||
If you did not donate, honestly, you don't have a right to an opinion regarding whether the money is being well used. If you did donate, why don't you contact her and ask for your donation to be refunded? Either way, it's not up to you whether other people should have donated that much to her kickstarter. Clearly, they thought it was worth it.
Is taking a pop shot at individual's trying to meet the inane perfect body image requirements society imposes on celebrities so fun? |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Cecilthedarkknight_234
Posts: 3820 Location: Louisville, KY |
|
|||||
Actually I do find it fun because society sets it up that way only to watch it fail. I can care less how a person looks when it comes to vocal talent. What I care about is if their said talent is any good or not. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Mohawk52
Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
|
|||||
|
||||||
|
||||||
|
Kakugo
Posts: 163 |
|
|||||
|
...is it too late to throw a couple pennies in?
My expectations for the Women vs Tropes in Video Games were pretty low. I was familiar enough with her grossly inaccurate Baoynetta Video - one she later deleted, and has never mentioned since. (For the record: Bayonetta is not a mother, it sold less than 2 Million copies in the period mentioned, was very well regarded for its gameplay, and suggesting the game lets you choose your own "Patriarchal Porno Adventure" in which spoiler[God Almighty is a woman and the ultimate villain is a man trying to silence his own daughter's uncontrollable power] seems... disingenuous, at best.) Thankfully, there's nothing especially wrong with the "Damsels in Distress" video. Yes, I have my issues with it, but at the end of the day it's basically a piece meant to point out 25 year old storytelling standards to an audience that's either too square, or too young to know they ever existed. But yes, it's a first step, and we need that to talk about what's changed and what hasn't, so it's possible we'll have much more to talk about in future episodes. For all intents and purposes, it's a crash course on video game heroes having fought to save video game heroines, but does so without the acknowledgment that video game stories in the 8-bit era (when most of the more notable examples started) were extremely simplified, or that the two franchises she spends most of her time dissecting - Mario and Zelda - are all basically intentionally simplified thematic remakes of themselves. That doesn't make the video dishonest or incomplete, but it does seem... well, it's hard to call something willing to cite dozens of examples insubstantial, but it doesn't have that much to say beyond that DiD is a thing, and has been for a dang long time. Where I start to grumble and feel I'm being fed a skewed spoonful is when it pretends that Dinosaur Planet (itself an interesting anecdote, more for the marketing implications than anything related to sexism) was going to be a Krystal-centric game, as opposed to being a game split evenly between her and Sabre. It also seems odd that she cuts away to vintage game advertisements with a sexist bend, but doesn't go into any of the popular expanded media - saturday morning cartoons, various comics and the like - which often portrayed both Toadstool and Zelda in a much more positive, competent, and admirable light than their shrinking violet 8-bit personas. Again, I realize this is a cliff-notes version of the characters and the world they inhabit, but if the adverts are relevant, why not the cartoons which served essentially the same purpose? More damning is the fact that Sarkeesian herself - one who's whole approach is to "discuss" pop culture - doesn't discuss so much as she does say what she has to say and move on. She's disabled comments on YouTube, and while her own website has comments enabled, we've yet to see one appear over the course of a full week. I fully understand that she's poised to be flooded by trolls the likes of which Moria never saw, but she's left the public no way to open an actual discussion with her. If the goal of this project was to raise awareness and expand the point of view in a legitimate, mature fashion, she should have the courage to discuss and debate these issues as needed. Again, I get it; opening discussion directly to viewers is all but inviting the horde to return. But the disappearing Baoynetta video concerns me, and makes me wonder if Anita's not prepared to defend herself, or cede when she's caught with her hand in the proverbial cookie jar. At the end of the day, though, I won't deny that this is positive as a whole: People are discussing things, many of them as adults, and that's a good thing. Unfortunately a lot of the discussion started because of Sarkeesian's abuse and related success; she's become a martyr in the discussion of sexism in gaming culture, and to that end, Tropes vs Women in Video Games is almost a footnote. The mass hate-campaign proved there was an issue in the gamer culture more than anything Sarkeesian herself could ever hope to say herself. THAT part of it, I find utterly fascinating. The final product... eh, s'okay. She also says that Zelda has never been a playable character in her own game. The Phillips CD-i says "hello". Now we can all drop to the fetal position and convince ourselves that, no, those never happened... 
|
||||||
|
||||||
|
Cecilthedarkknight_234
Posts: 3820 Location: Louisville, KY |
|
|||||
Well thanks to the net those games will forever be immortalized. |
||||||
|
||||||
lostrune
 Posts: 313 |
|
|||||
My favorite thing about her Bayonetta video was Hideki Kamiya's, the creator/director of the game, response to it 
Speaking of which, Bayonetta 2 for the Wii-U, who's looking forward to it?
|
||||||
|
||||||
Kyogissun
 Posts: 676 |
|
|||||
Whoa whoa whoa whoa, Hideki Kamiya himself ACTUALLY responded to her video somehow? Links, I must see. |
||||||
|
||||||
|
lostrune
Posts: 313 |
|
|||||
He lives up to his reputation of being blunt, that's for sure
|
||||||
|
||||||
Kikaioh
 Posts: 1205 Location: Antarctica |
|
|||||
|
What bothers me about the "Damsel in Distress" video isn't so much how it details the frequency that the trope has appeared in video games (which is a lot), but how it seems to imply misogynistic intentions or a subconscious sexist culture/message. On the broadest level, I think the trope is fundamentally meant to give a positive, chivalrous motivation for the hero to complete an arduous quest --- for the sake of love and/or protecting the weak. "Shadow of the Colossus", for example, has the power to be incredibly moving when a hero risks his life against unbelievably overwhelming odds for the sake of saving the girl he loves, even if it ultimately destroys him. Other motivations usually aren't as emotionally involving or perceptibly noble as this sort of construct. Mario, Zelda, Ghosts'n Goblins, etc. are basically formed around the classic "knight saves princess from wizard" formula, which has always appealed to the gallantry and cheesy sentimentality of men. That games follow this formula, imo, hasn't at all been an attempt to make a sexist commentary about the nature of gender relations in the real world --- it's more a coincidence of construction and demographics, to build a simple, instantly appealing framework for a historically male gaming audience.
In any case, I think entertainment is largely a reflection of society, and that these repetitive tropes will change when society does as well. Historically, men have been more involved in politics and combat than women (who in the past haven't had much say in the matter), which has reflected in video games where men have been the primary actors of conflict and change. As the real-world culture changes and becomes more cemented in the spirit of equality, I think our entertainment will change right along with it. Not to mention, as more women become a representative force in gaming culture and development, I think we'll see (and have already been seeing) more games that cater to theirs and everyone's tastes and sensibilities. Eventually, I think the perceived "sexism" of a trope like the "damsel in distress" will diminish, as more games that demonstrate empowered women (combined with a culture that embraces that dynamic) helps to balance out the historic unevenness. |
||||||
|
||||||
TitanXL
 Posts: 4036 |
|
|||||
Last August? I'm actually surprised someone didn't try to make a big stink about this. Though I guess the people complaining about this stuff have more roots in the Western game industry and cares less about Japanese games. If the head of Bethesda or Rockstar said this it'd probably have gotten more attention.
Technically, chivalry is still sexism, though it's the kind of sexism most women probably won't complain about.
I wonder where huge things like Twilight and lots of popular shoujo manga rest upon. To say these tropes only appeal to "male adolescent power fantasies" is an obvious fib because last I checked Twilight was essentially about 2 guys fighting over a girl and was pretty popular with women. Sort of like how "chivalry is sexist but most women probably wont complain about it", there's obviously lots of women who do find the idea of being "rescued by a knight in shining armor" or something to be appealing, the idea that a guy would risk his life for you and all that. It's a trope that appeals to both women and men. I've seen some people criticize some shoujo manga for doing certain things and tropes, here's a current topic, but that doesn't seem to change the fact tons of women eat up those cliches and love them to death and make them bestsellers.. so where exactly does that fit in with the storytelling conventions, and should games be judged differently? |
||||||
|
||||||
|
Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
|
|||||
You should probably be actually familiar with the material before making an argument like this. Twilight isn't "essentially about 2 guys fighting over a girl" it's about the world's most special, important and desirable sullen teenage girl having her pick from a small assortment of superpowered paranormal hotties who just cannot resist her. Those films (at least the films - haven't read the books) are told from the heroine's perspective and there are almost no situations where she's directly in peril due to weakness or femininity and then must be saved by one of her beaus. It's always "selfless act leads to danger, vampire boyfriend steps in but she could've saved herself if need be" kinda stuff. Not the best "eh stuff for girls follows the same damsel in distress" argument. |
||||||
|
||||||
Animehermit
 Posts: 964 Location: The Argama |
|
|||||
|
@zac
Even if his argument was on the money it's still sucks. Just because the author of the work is female, and the work is enjoyed by females, doesn't mean it isn't sexist or misogynistic. It also completely ignores the fact that A LOT of women find Twilight sexist. |
||||||
|
||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group