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ThisJustThis
Joined: 25 Jan 2014
Posts: 54
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 Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:35 pm
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| jl07045 wrote: | | It's promoting physical interaction with a pillow that depicts a loli character. If someone buys that pillow, because it serves as a stand-in for a physical human child, that person is already a paedophile. There's your line. Or are you suggesting that pillows like these make people into paedophiles? If you have proof any non-dogmatic liberal would shut that production down. |
Pedophilia, as a preference, is not automatically criminal or harmful, but the actions this preference can lead to may be. I'm not suggesting that these pillows make people into pedophiles, I'm suggesting that they can make pedophiles into criminals by providing positive feedback and reinforcement for certain potentially dangerous real world behavior (fondling a physical loli target), and that the risk of this increases with the realism. It may be a small risk without any current proof, but I still don't know if it's a risk worth taking.
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Touma
Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 2651
Location: Colorado, USA
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Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 2:02 pm
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^
It may also reduce the risk to children by giving potential pedophiles a harmless outlet for their desires.
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_Cyphon_
Joined: 16 Nov 2014
Posts: 996
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Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 2:25 pm
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@ThisJustThis, If pedophiles are using 2D characters for their pleasure and relief, I doubt they will be able to transition to reality with their desires. The reason people buy these is because they are 2D girls, no? Once compared to reality, I would suppose they lose interest. If you were to give me a photo of a 10 year old in anime, and a 10 year old in real life, I would choose the former every single time. Personally, I find absolutely nothing cute or adorable in children these days, much less any kind of attraction. Can you specify as well what you mean by "positive feedback and reinforcement"? I think I see where you're going with this, but the pillow itself doesn't actually give positive feedback as in "Please Continue" or anything of the sort.
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Polycell
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 4623
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Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 2:53 pm
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| ThisJustThis wrote: | | Pedophilia, as a preference, is not automatically criminal or harmful, but the actions this preference can lead to may be. I'm not suggesting that these pillows make people into pedophiles, I'm suggesting that they can make pedophiles into criminals by providing positive feedback and reinforcement for certain potentially dangerous real world behavior (fondling a physical loli target), and that the risk of this increases with the realism. It may be a small risk without any current proof, but I still don't know if it's a risk worth taking. |
Violent video games have been proven to not cause an increase in violence(that idiot petition that got GTAV pulled in Australia's Targets not withstanding), so I doubt a pillow that's as obviously removed from reality will either.
| _Cyphon_ wrote: | | Can you specify as well what you mean by "positive feedback and reinforcement"? I think I see where you're going with this, but the pillow itself doesn't actually give positive feedback as in "Please Continue" or anything of the sort. |
Yes, the pillow gives plenty of positive feedback; it's just in the form of "no means yes", something that's all over hentai.
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_Cyphon_
Joined: 16 Nov 2014
Posts: 996
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Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 2:57 pm
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| Polycell wrote: |
| _Cyphon_ wrote: | | Can you specify as well what you mean by "positive feedback and reinforcement"? I think I see where you're going with this, but the pillow itself doesn't actually give positive feedback as in "Please Continue" or anything of the sort. |
Yes, the pillow gives plenty of positive feedback; it's just in the form of "no means yes", something that's all over hentai. |
The pillow doesn't give direct positive feedback, but it does indirectly, which in most cases is as bad as direct.
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jl07045
Joined: 30 Aug 2011
Posts: 1527
Location: Riga, Latvia
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Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:18 pm
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| ThisJustThis wrote: | | Pedophilia, as a preference, is not automatically criminal or harmful, but the actions this preference can lead to may be. I'm not suggesting that these pillows make people into pedophiles, I'm suggesting that they can make pedophiles into criminals by providing positive feedback and reinforcement for certain potentially dangerous real world behavior (fondling a physical loli target), and that the risk of this increases with the realism. It may be a small risk without any current proof, but I still don't know if it's a risk worth taking. |
Should I start counting objects that in hands of already troubled individuals might increase the probability of them committing crime? Let's start with guns... or maybe let's not.
If you want to stay consistent with your argument you would have trouble with a lot more than just these pillows. Hentai for example can also provide positive feedback. If we assume that the risk builds up over repeated "uses", it would be very hard to find hentai okay - it would simply take more to build up, because hentai is not as realistic, but eventually, bam. You would be very hard pressed to provide justification for what risks should be found acceptable and why, when someone suggests banning hentai after moaning pillows have been banned.
| Quote: | | It may be a small risk without any current proof |
Yeah, that's the bottom line - you don't know, neither does anyone else here. So all the reaction has less to do with concerns about children and more to do with "Ewwwww, how creepy! I will now make judgements about people who would buy such a thing."
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Polycell
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 4623
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Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:53 pm
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After some digging, I did find a pretty directly related study, "Pornography and Sex Crimes in the Czech Republic":
| Abstract wrote: | | Pornography continues to be a contentious matter with those on the one side arguing it detrimental to society while others argue it is pleasurable to many and a feature of free speech. The advent of the Internet with the ready availability of sexually explicit materials thereon particularly has seemed to raise questions of its influence. Following the effects of a new law in the Czech Republic that allowed pornography to a society previously having forbidden it allowed us to monitor the change in sex related crime that followed the change. As found in all other countries in which the phenomenon has been studied, rape and other sex crimes did not increase. Of particular note is that this country, like Denmark and Japan, had a prolonged interval during which possession of child pornography was not illegal and, like those other countries, showed a significant decrease in the incidence of child sex abuse. |
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 16935
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Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 4:44 pm
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I do believe this thread is getting OT. So how about we drop the pedophilia and sexual deviancy debates shall we?
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ThisJustThis
Joined: 25 Jan 2014
Posts: 54
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Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:19 pm
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Sure, and I'll be getting one purely for the staggering technological and creative brilliance. I mean, wow, a pillow... that talks!!!
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jl07045
Joined: 30 Aug 2011
Posts: 1527
Location: Riga, Latvia
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Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:23 pm
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| Psycho 101 wrote: | | I do believe this thread is getting OT. So how about we drop the pedophilia and sexual deviancy debates shall we? |
Well, when Aria says that...
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enurtsol
Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 14763
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Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 6:17 pm
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| _Cyphon_ wrote: | |
The reason people buy these is because they are 2D girls, no? Once compared to reality, I would suppose they lose interest. |
But the 3D pillow make it 3D though, so why the interest in moving 2D towards more realism. 
(And in the larger scheme of things, since this pillow doesn't occur in a vacuum, Japan is not limited to 2D junior gravure.)
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_Cyphon_
Joined: 16 Nov 2014
Posts: 996
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Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:07 pm
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| enurtsol wrote: |
| _Cyphon_ wrote: | |
The reason people buy these is because they are 2D girls, no? Once compared to reality, I would suppose they lose interest. |
But the 3D pillow make it 3D though, so why the interest in moving 2D towards more realism.
(And in the larger scheme of things, since this pillow doesn't occur in a vacuum, Japan is not limited to 2D junior gravure.) |
Well, I'm not talking about the medium really. I'm saying that they're interested in anime girls more than real life girls. The pillow makes it 3D but the girl itself is still anime/2D.
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TarsTarkas
Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 5831
Location: Virginia, United States
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Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:32 pm
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Really don't know why the pitchforks and torches are out. This is nothing really new. The tech has been in toys for years now, so this is not really an innovation either.
Imagine what fun people could have if the Ghost in the Shell type virtual reality actually becomes a fully fledged reality. We could create our own heaven and hells.
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar
Joined: 14 Aug 2006
Posts: 16935
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Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:50 pm
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| TarsTarkas wrote: | |
Imagine what fun people could have if the Ghost in the Shell type virtual reality actually becomes a fully fledged reality. We could create our own heaven and hells. |
If you look around the world lately I think we're doing a good job of creating our own hell already. We don't need more help heh.
| jl07045 wrote: |
| Psycho 101 wrote: | | I do believe this thread is getting OT. So how about we drop the pedophilia and sexual deviancy debates shall we? |
Well, when Aria says that... |
I know it's ironic saying that in a thread of this nature given Afterlife on Omega lol.
Last edited by Redbeard 101 on Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Polycell
Joined: 16 Jan 2012
Posts: 4623
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Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:53 pm
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| TarsTarkas wrote: | | Really don't know why the pitchforks and torches are out. |
It has a loli on it. If it weren't for that, it'd just be your standard "lol Japan" thread.
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