Forum - View topicBuried Treasure - Gundam 0080
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Nagisa
Moderator
 Posts: 6128 Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh |
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Just because he's produced a lot of venerable, classic series does not mean he is above criticism. If I find fault with an aspect of Tomino's work (and oh yes, his way of writing characters gives me plenty to work with), I shouldn't have to keep my mouth shut just because that same material is also considered classic. Does Tomino do a lot of good? Yes. He creates fantastic worlds and concepts in an attempt to convey powerful, timely themes in an uncompromising fashion. However, he also manages to produce some of the most laughably awkward character dialogue and interaction that I've seen in both television and film, and I have the right to say so. And you know what? I have the right to say so without people like you accusing me—without any justifiable reason—of having some bias towards newer material as nothing more than a petty excuse to belittle my opinion. It's childish, and I don't think I have to stand for it. And believe it or not, just because I give Tomino crap about his writing does not mean I don't give the same crap (or even moreso) to Chiaki Morosawa for the stupid tripe she pulls in SEED, or to KyoAni for turning Lucky Star into a shameless Haruhi ad campaign, or to Gonzo for the fact that Trinity Blood is a hilariously inept piece of trash in every respect, or to Kubo and Kishimoto for turning Bleach and Naruto into Dragon Ball Z Lite over the years.
Yeah, for me to call him a hack in the broad sense of his entire body of work is a little extreme, I admit. But I still stand by my assertion that four times out of five he's seriously off in his ability to depict on film the brilliant characters he's conceived. The overtly uneven depiction of Haman between Zeta and ZZ, Kamille's wildly nonsensical "I'm never calling you Quattro again" response to spoiler[Four's death,] the entire thing between Sayla and Ramba Ral, the insanely inappropriate and melodramatic penchant for slapping to occur with little if any logical justification for it, and pretty much every single moment of Victory Gundam's screentime stand out pretty nicely as a testament to that. |
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The Human Spider
Posts: 334 |
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I haven't seen any of those shows yet; I really have to get caught up on Shinbo's earlier stuff. I just started watching his new show SAYONARA ZETSUBO SENSEI. After having recently re-watched EVANGELION and ZETA GUNDAM, SAYONARA's humorous take on the whole angst/despair thing and its psychologically/emotionally disturbed characters is very refreshing. This might end up being my favorite Shinbo show. I wish I had something to say to tie together a Shinbo and Tomino discussion but that's beyond my meager abilities. |
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jsyxx
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Honestly, you are exaggerating this to a ridiculous degree. I have never found his dialogue to be "laughable." The only things regarding character interactions I found to be off was his portrayal of romantic relationships, and that's not in every case either.
Bingo.
Can you point me to some particualr novels you have written? Seriously, Tomino is in a nice little category by himself for the sheer complexity of his work. I don't recall any other shows having that many episodes, with that many non-repetitious story arcs, with that many main characters, that many minor characters, that many separate, yet entangled character storylines, that much political and military intrigue, with that much science fiction, and that high of quality of mecha combat. And he is responsible for the lion's share of that being both the director and writer. Yes, his shows aren't perfect, but I doubt his fans really care either. Some unevenness in his plotting actually helps the over-all product imo, becuase it makes his storylines unpredictable thus entertaining and memorable. He didn't become the most famous and beloved anime-tv-director in Japan by happenstance. His DVDs sell like crack in Japan to this day. If he was such a "hack" that wouldn't have been the case, becuase those people would've moved on to something that was better. No one makes shows like Tomino period, the man is a creative genius. Being a creative genius doesn't mean you're flawless. Nothing is perfect, especially art. |
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Nagisa
Moderator
Posts: 6128 Location: Atlanta-ish, Jawjuh |
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Incidentally, you obviously missed the part where I admitted I went a step too far in calling him a hack.
If we can't judge people's works analytically without dabbling in their fields firsthand, then you have about as little place to praise Tomino as I do to criticise him. Just because neither of us has written a novel doesn't mean that we can't voice our opinion of his (though you surely seem intent on hypocritically silencing me with that line of logic).
If popularity was a sign of quality, then I'm sure I wouldn't have to argue with you that Gundam SEED Destiny was an immaculate work of art, because you already know that as well as any of us. Also, I guess this makes Naruto the greatest anime of all time, and Big Brother a standard-bearer of what high quality television should be. Obviously there's no debating with you, so I may as well stop. I happen to think Tomino is just a hair overrated, being able to create absolutely brilliant worlds centered around brilliant themes while struggling significantly as a character man, while you seem to be intent on using any sort of logical or rhetorical fallacy possible to somehow censor or falsely tarnish that opinion (accusations of bias, continuing to harp on missteps I admit taking, saying my opinion isn't as qualified as yours, etc.). I want to discuss it, you obviously just want to call me an idiot for discussing it. So that's that, really. |
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Carl Horn
Posts: 90 |
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HellKorn is the only person to have noted the critical detail of who wrote 0080--not even Justin himself mentioned it  But it's a fitting obscurity for the deepest-dug of anime's buried treasures, Hiroyuki Yamaga.
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toddc
 Posts: 164 |
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This always interested me, since Yamaga went from founding Gainax, co-writing Gunbuster, directing Honneamise AND scripting the best Gundam series to...making Mahoromatic. Oddly enough, the writer credited with the "series composition" for 0080, Kyosuke Yuki, isn't linked to anything else in the ANN Encyclopedia, though Google suggests that he/she wrote one of the 0080 novels and had something to do with Samurai Gold. Perhaps Yuki was one of those professional writers who only dabbled in anime, or a pseudonym like "Hajime Yatate." |
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doc-watson42
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 1708 |
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Big Lots and Dollar General have been the recipients of Bandai Entertainment's overstock dumps for the past two years, at least—see the Anime on DVD Retail Forum for details. |
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DrizzlingEnthalpy
 Posts: 255 |
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Bumping because I just finished Gundam 0080 and loved it. It probably had the most realistic/believable depiction of child characters I've seen in an anime, perhaps with the exception of a few Miyazaki films.
I agree with everything in the review; the thoughts on children's perception of wartime is especially spot-on. I remember a few days after the 9/11 attacks (I was eleven years old at the time) I heard some slightly younger children at my school talking about how "cool" the fireball produced by the planecrash was. Hiroyuki Yamaga was (is?) a much better screenwriter than his inane, preposerously out-of-character finale of Mahoromatic lets on. My guess for the incompetence of Mahoromatic's ending is because Yamaga didn't create the characters or the scenarios for the first four-fifths of the show, so he was at much more of a disadvantage for concluding the series than he would have been with characters he'd created himself and understood intimately. The only things I would change are the music (synthy J-pop can only take you so far dramatically) and Alfred's voice. While well acted, it was often a bit annoying... but at least his dialogue was always believable. Now, if you want a young mecha protagonist boy with a super-duper-annoying voice, you probably won't find one more abrasive than Kappei Jin from Tomino's pre-Gundam series Invincible Superman Zambot 3. |
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luffypirate
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Man, he came from Honneamise. Guaranteed that guy could give Tomino himself a run for his money. 0080 is complete genius.
I often tell newcomers to Gundam to check this one out before First. It's hard today find a show that can tug on those heartstrings as well as this one. |
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