Forum - View topicNEWS: Twins, 20, Jailed for Child Porn Including 'Manga' Images
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CCSYueh
Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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I don't see this as "looking" as much as clicking around the net & following a link to something one didn't want to see. God knows back in the eary part of this decade I'd click on what was supposed to be an anime site only to get naked chicks on my screen. (The gal at the comic shop I frequented said porn sites regularly bought-maybe still do-abandoned sites & loaded them up with links back to porn sites) No chance of averting the custody unless his atty is hot-shot enough to get a stay of execution, but that isn't impossible. I see it all the time where my clients are set to go to jail & get it postponed. Hell, they even fail to turn up for their weekend, call their lawyer with their lame excuse, & get it re-worked.
But entrapment is wrong. It's not unusual to clear innocent people eventually, though some end up spending years in jail. David was denied his right to speak with an attorney. He should have kept his mouth shut until he got that attorney, but most people who are innocent don't really see the need because they ARE innocent. The facts should prove them out, but law enforcement looking for a quick positive pr on busting a child molestor OH MY! know this & know how to manipulate their defendants. It's the criminals who know the system who know to keep quiet until that atty shows up. The plea bargain thing sounds like what Polanski is claiming--that he had a deal but allegedly got word the Judge was going to change it in the name of getting publicity. Looks pretty good on that re-election bid "hard on child abusers". Pursue the gal. If she did load it on there, she's up for something-entrapment, perjury, something. Some people are just evil & she sounds like it. It sounds like the family's done their share for her & she's just nasty. The atty should have an idea how to handle this. Maybe a different one is needed. Realistically there are ways to play this-public sympathy for someone wrongely accused, but the child abuse factor could make for automatic judgement. Look how quick people here were to jump on the "fry in hell forever" side. I would think at least a few guys could relate to the false accusation, but gals can be pretty unsympathetic on sex issues & kids as are parents in general. (speaking as a chick who's heard her share of lynch-type talk from parents as my daughter progressed thru school) |
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chicogrande
Posts: 190 Location: Huntsville, Alabama |
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It goes without saying that any actual exploitative pictures or video with live human subjects who are pre-pubescent or under 18 (or 21 depending upon the law) is worthy of lawful retribution. But as always, I find it a PR nightmare for mainstream Anime that sentences such as, "Approximately 90 per cent of the images were of (my italics) cartoon drawings called Japanese Anime, while the remainder were of actual children," are used by Nova Scotia's The News. Then there is this whopper from the same article, "An examination of the computer showed that one or both of the Hammond twins had done Google queries to see if anime was legal."
Anime per se is legal because movies like "Ponyo" get shown widely in theaters and you can purchase a DVD of "Ghost in the Shell: SAC" without much hassle in most retailers. Don't you think this creates an incomplete mindset regarding Japanese animation in general and a nightmare scenario for the casual fan who may find himself having to explain his copy of "Card Captor Sakura"? |
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hikaru004
Posts: 2306 |
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All of this has nothing to do with immigration. The guy's got a conviction for child porn no less. That's what counts in the end imo. He should save his money and stay in Canada imo. Get an attorney if he's that gun-ho on coming here. |
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Zin5ki
Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
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The judge's views on the offending drawn content:
Unless this quote is in fact pertaining to the photographic material, one questions how exactly this judge defines the word 'victimize'. A causal link between this material being downloaded and people being harmed seems to be presupposed here. |
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CCSYueh
Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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Immigration is a game anyway. Look at what they did to John Lennon (Issued a visa, then pulled it & said he was here illegally) However if David Hammond gets his charges dropped/cleared/expunged, he should no longer need an immigration lawyer. It would then all have been just a horrible nightmare he had to live thru. Might even get something for the false imprisonment. They do here at least some of the time. It's happened enough, I believe they have it figured out to so much per day. Be nice if the prosecutors/judge get penalized somehow (like voted out of office in shame) |
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Triley
Posts: 14 Location: New Hampshire, US |
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Just a quick update. He contacted his lawyer, and he said that there was nothing wrong with the case, or else he would have said something. It also turns out that the lawyer and judge are friends, which leads to conflict of interest.
I finally got him convinced to try and talk to a different lawyer, but he wasn't able to get anyone to talk to him in time, and now he's sitting in jail until Monday. In the future, they have a good chance at getting home arrest more often than not, or so Corey's probation offer said, because the Dartmouth jail they're stuck at is pretty crowded. He's getting out at 6am Monday, and I'm going with his mother to pick them up. I have to leave already at like 4pm in the evening, but I just want to be there to make sure I can do my best to comfort him, you know? Maybe more to come later, as I think of more. I'm sitting in a longue at the Toronto airport as we speak, and I've only had about an hour's sleep since I woke up Friday morning at 6am, so I'm a bit dumbfound for words at the moment. Wish us all luck. |
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Lothar
Posts: 67 |
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Good luck to all of you. Despite my personal opposition to (real) child pornography, it sounds as if he was really brought in for the make-believe shota.
Lesson to everyone, which I feel compelled to put in all-caps: NEVER, EVER TALK TO THE POLICE AFTER YOU HAVE BEEN ARRESTED UNLESS YOUR LAWYER IS PRESENT! EVER!!!!! |
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NDenizen
Posts: 70 |
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How are they "sex offenders" again?
Amazing how we so easily trivialize real crimes, such as rape and sexual assault, with thought policing like this. The actual child porn is understandable, but the fake stuff? Surely in a sane, rational world, it is negligible. It seems you cannot live your own life away from society anymore without the police still wanting to bash down your door and rush you away to a dead end life. |
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CCSYueh
Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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Good Luck.
That's tough about the lawyer, but it does make more of a case for false prosecution. Hopefully it's not as much of a "Good Ole Boys" network as Betty Broderick faced when she divorced her husband which led to tragic results for all involved. (He was the head of the local Bar Association so she apparently got railroaded on the divorce & then things went south from there leading to her murder of the ex & his 2nd wife). Sounds like the lawyer was just slam-dunking it rather than defending a "child molesting pervert" which could go against him should he have political aspirations. |
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shadowblack
Posts: 37 |
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A bit late, but good luck from me as well, and hopefully all will end well.
P.S.: For some reason this story reminded me of this case. I'm not sure why... |
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DomFortress
Posts: 751 Location: Richmond BC, Canada |
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OBJECTION!
The International Society for the Reform of Criminal Law had this to say about CHILD PORNOGRAPHY AND FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION IN CANADA:
I was curious about the term "cognitive distortions" and I begin to wonder what could they be. And I found out that "Cognitive distortions -- where your mind puts a ‘spin’ on the events you see, and attaches a not-so-objective interpretation to what you experience -- happen all the time. They are especially common in people with depression and other mood disorders". Now consider that human's frontal lobe reaches full maturity around age 25 (citation), while OTOH teens are prone to instant gratification with their underdeveloped frontal lobes(citation). Not to mention is the fact that "At approximately 6 years of age, most children will have established a keen interest in "how babies are made". Children are becoming cognitively sophisticated enough that they will want to know how the sperm and the egg get together. Some, but not all, children in this age range will begin to be aware of the link between reproduction with sexual pleasure. In addition to possible discussions with parents or lessons taught at school, children will hear accounts of human reproduction from peers and be aware of sexuality content in the media", while "Some children in this age range (although a minority) will occasionally and consciously masturbate for pleasure".(citation) This, providing the fact that "there is a thin line between emotions and sexual stimuli in humans"(citation), while "The frontal lobes are considered our emotional control center and home to our personality"(citation). I'm beginning to think that while just about anyone can have their personality distorted into accepting pedophilia, by them masturbating themselves into having sexual orientation towards children, and them considering "loving children" as their sexual preference, using both real and virtual child pornography. children OTOH are simply being overexposed. |
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Keonyn
Subscriber
Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
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Please don't turn your entire posts in to one giant link. Place your citation links in parentheses following the paragraphs or sentences in which they are relevant, otherwise it's just excessive. If you have to link text, then link only a few key words, not entire sentences and certainly not the entirety of a paragraph as you did here.
Plus, I have to also warn you that what you posted is a whole lot of nothing just to make a very simple point that you've already made a dozen times before. It's great that you did your homework, but a lot of that was irrelevant or barely relevant. The masturbation habits of teens doesn't really factor in much to the bottom line here. I applaud that you decided to back up your statements with actual studies and evidence, few people do that, but unfortunately a lot of it just doesn't go anywhere and it ends up as a tremendous eyesore with large blocks of text linked at a time. Link to relevant information, that's fine and is even beneficial provided that information really does have a bearing on the discussion, but try to do so in a cleaner fashion, and try to show a bit of restraint and stick to the truly meaningful information. |
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DomFortress
Posts: 751 Location: Richmond BC, Canada |
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However, what I did was relevant. In a sense that while the twins who got arrested for possession of virtual child pornography were both 20 years old, they still got five more years at least before their brains to fully develop their frontal lobes. And despise the fact that both are old enough to vote under the Canadian Constitution, their brains are relatively the same as teens with underdeveloped frontal lobes; primed and programed for instant gratification by the modern society(citation), but not so much as in judgment. |
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Mohawk52
Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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rinmackie
Posts: 1040 Location: in a van! down by the river! |
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Okay, I was hoping I could avoid commenting on this. But it looks like I'm going to have to put in my two cents anyway. First, to address the actual case itself. The problem appears to be that only one twin is actually guilty of looking at real child porn (and there may have been some entrapment involved) but both of them are being punished. Of course, the reason for this is Canada's ridiculous virtual child porn ban. Neither of the twins have molested any real children. The mod has already posted in a very clear, intelligent (and unbiased) way what I already agree with. Mainly that Dom's original post with numerous links don't really apply in this case. Also, I wish CCSYueh, who I believe works in law enforcement and is a yaoi fan would have commented on this by now. But it looks like it's up to me. Now for the rest of my argument which I hope doesn't devolve into incoherent rambling.
Let me state for the record that I am against REAL child pornography. But I also believe in distinguishing between reality and fantasy, which I believe most people are capable of doing. Yes, I realize many think even thinking about children in sexual situations is disgusting but there's a difference between thinking about it and doing it. If everyone were arrested simply for thinking about immoral/illegal deeds, everyone would be in prison. Course I know some would say that looking at or reading about fictional pedophilia will lead a person to do it in real life. Then why don't we assume that people who watch horror movies go out and commit murder? Why don't people who watch Westerns or read mystery novels go out and become cowboys or detectives? They are lots of misdeeds that are immoral but not illegal, like adultery. (At least not in this country.) Real child porn is illegal not just because it's wrong but because a real child is involved. Just like if someone made a horror movie and actually killed someone in the process. In both cases, AN ACTUAL PERSON WAS HARMED! Plus, blaming a piece of fiction takes the blame off of the criminal. Whenever a murderer tries to blame his crime on childhood abuse or something like that, people don't accept it. But whenever a rapist or child molester blames porn for their crimes, people are quick to buy into it. If only we could get rid of porn, things like this wouldn't happen, they say. Oh, really? Then how do you explain those millions of people who watch porn and don't commit sex crimes? As for youth, I agree that children and teens shouldn't be exposed to porn. Because they don't understand it and haven't yet learned the difference between real life sex and fantasy sex. Eighteen years olds are considered legal adults and while they still have a tendency to do stupid stuff, (as do people who are much older) it is assumed that they know better. Basically, these guys are being punished for thought crimes, which I think is deplorable. (Of course, the twin who looked at real child porn should be punished.) Maybe Dom is comfortable living in a world where people are punished merely for fantasizing about things and enjoying certain kinds of fiction, but I'm not. P.S. Plus, all this effort being put into protecting fictional children is time that could be spent protecting real children. |
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