Forum - View topicNo. 6 (TV).
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Unicorn_Blade
 Posts: 1153 Location: UK |
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I never gave it much thought, I just assumed the Dog keeper was a girl. And then someone said he was a boy, and I realised there are not many definite hints in the series at least as to his/her sex. I still think it is a she, in the episode when Rikiga set the Doogkeeper with the pervert, the latter seemed to be shocked when the Dog Keeper took the short blond wig off, and according to the subtitles Rikiga said "Young girls do not look much different from boys", so I understood that the pervert was after young boys, while the Dog Keeper was a girl. Plus, the character is voiced by a woman, but does not have to mean anything. But then Rikiga was known as a pimp (I think they mentioned the fact that he was taking care of providing women to No.6 authorities), so the guy would not be shocked to see the Dog Keeper taking off the wig and be a girl... Can anyone throw some light on this? |
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Ishmoo
 Posts: 413 Location: Fredericksburg, VA |
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I'm only part way through the Novel, but so far Dogkeeper's gender seems to be left intentionally ambiguous. When watching the anime, I got the impression that he was male, but masquerading as a girl for some unknown reason. In episode 9, Rikiga repeatedly tells the official that "she" is perfect and untouched, exactly as ordered, then later says that a young girl looks much like a young boy after they are revealed to have deceived him. I think the wig was simply because the official had "ordered" a blonde virgin. What he got was a brunette boy. Also, when Shion touches Inukashi's bare shoulders he shockingly gasps, "You're a..." but is interrupted before completing the sentence. They had been presenting Inukashi as a girl, so his surprise would seem to imply that he's really a boy. That's how I took it anyway. I could be wrong. |
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Ishmoo
Posts: 413 Location: Fredericksburg, VA |
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I tried to look this up and now I'm just more confused. I had been going under the assumption that we were supposed to think Inukashi was a girl, but some people assumed male from the beginning. It appears that we were supposed to be getting a gender switch in Ep. 9, I just don't know which way, from Girl to Boy or Boy to Girl. I wonder if they did that on purpose. I haven't gotten far enough in the book to get anything from that source either. Someone has to have read it all the way through by now. Any clues? |
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Yttrbio
 Posts: 3653 |
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How nice to have a character whose gender is ambiguous in the plot actually have a gender that's ambiguous to viewers.
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Bento-Box
 Posts: 1049 Location: Florida |
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Long time no see, guys.
I'm probably going to get flogged for this... but I actually disagree with everyone in here. I enjoyed No.6. Yes, I actually did. I don't like BL or Yaoi and I did cringe a whole lot... like many of you, I felt like I was watching a porno and the girls never walked in. But, that's ok. The mystery of the series was enough to keep me going even though I didn't care for many of the characters or their designs. Bones is a little hit or miss for me anyways. I liked this from the start better than Fractale even though Fractale was visually more appealing. To be honest, I never saw the episode with the old man in the cave as an information dump. I've just become used to things like that happening in like every show. So, I just shrugged it off and moved on. I was bothered that the spoiler[mother's house was not bugged] - it totally should have been. But that's neither here nor there. I was, personally, just more interested in seeing how the story resolved more than watching the characters develop. I didn't think it was the best sci-fi I've ever seen, but at least I was able to get through it, unlike Fractale. It had me teary eyed at the end - especially when I realized it was the last episode. I have stopped keeping track of the number of episodes for some reason. I thought this one would run in the 20-somethings. And, honestly, I'm glad it didn't. Sure, some stuff may have been skimmed over and a little loose fitting, but I'm cool with it. Overall, it was a nice watch, BL moments aside. A few other things you guys mentioned... I did catch the spoiler[knitting needle in the pile of bodies], agree that the spoiler[aforementioned pile should have been really nasty] and that the whole spoiler[special cloak] thing could have been made a little clearer. I did realize early on that the dog keeper was spoiler[a girl, primarily because of the motherly instincts and types of clothing she wore]. The singing bothered me... and the whole pink scar on his face reminded me of a certain male body part pointing in the direction of his mouth... all that aside, I found it delightful. Sorry to hear that you guys didn't. 
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HaruhiToy
 Posts: 4118 |
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I have to say I am more than a little surprised by the number of people here posting that they are uncomfortable about (male?) homosexuality.
On one hand I have to commend the openness in being able to state it. I wouldn't want to stop that. On the other hand I am "uncomfortable" in the presence of bigotry. If I was posting things like "I like the story but I am a bit uncomfortable with the Japanese getting together with the white girls" what would you call it? To top it all of I didn't spot any homosexuals in the show at all. You got these two guys living together for months and nothing happens other than two on-mouth kisses -- sorry neither one is gay. I was hoping there would be at least one scene that starts out the morning with them together in bed but it didn't happen. |
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Ishmoo
Posts: 413 Location: Fredericksburg, VA |
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I couldn't agree more. I would never try to limit someone else's free expression, but it makes me cringe every time I hear someone express prejudice, whether it is racist, sexist, or homophobic. Last edited by Ishmoo on Mon Sep 19, 2011 10:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Ishmoo
Posts: 413 Location: Fredericksburg, VA |
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I just finished reading the novel translation. Wow. They really could have done this story justice with only a couple of additional episodes, maybe even just one more. It was so close at the end, but they dropped the ball right at the finish line. The novel's ending is so worth reading. It's hard to explain, but with just a tiny bit more time so much more could have been fleshed out. The anime sort of shadows the book, but veers off slightly to save time. The things that are different make a huge impact in the overall tone though. It's a much more fulfilling ending.
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Bento-Box
Posts: 1049 Location: Florida |
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Just an FYI - I'm not uncomfortable with homosexuality. People can do whatever they want as far as I'm concerned (as long as they're not infringing on my rights or someone else's).
The only reason I was "bothered" by the BL elements in this show was because the summaries I found did not even elude to that type of theme. Had I known about it up front, I would have at least been expecting it. Instead, I spent the first 5 - 6 episodes wondering more about the "relationship" between the two leads than actually paying attention to some of the minor plot points that became important later on. I have several gay friends and I'm totally cool with whatever. I don't care for most BL and yaoi shows because of the fan base that comes along with them. It is not what I personally find attractive or appealing, so I prefer to avoid such shows. |
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kpk
 Posts: 484 |
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You're kidding, right? The fact that it wasn't in "our faces" doesn't mean they're not gay. And kissing twice on the mouth... yeah, this is enough of a proof for me that they ARE gay. I mean, even the author of the novel said that they are both in-love with each other. |
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Ishmoo
Posts: 413 Location: Fredericksburg, VA |
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I agree with the fact that here's a big difference between "homophobia" and simply not finding BL or Yaoi shows appealing. There are several genres that I don't particularly like. I can't seem to get through a single "Magical Girl" show anymore. It's just not to my taste.
I know a lot of people view the relationship between Shion and Nezumi as non-romantic, and I can see their point. Sometimes a friendship can run so deep that, although it may not be physical, it is still the greatest "love" of a person's life. We see elements of that in Nana. I don't think anyone would categorize the relationship between the two Nanas as "Gay," but they often do behave like possessive lovers. I think the difference is that they are both clearly involved in heterosexual relationships throughout the series, while in No. 6, Shion and Nezumi remain steadfastly devoted only to each other. There's a borderline obsessiveness about it. It's my opinion that Shion and Nezumi do share a romantic love. If you set aside gender and imagine that the characters are a boy and a girl would anyone be disputing the nature of the relationship? I don't think anyone would even question that it is an epic love story under those circumstances. The whole, "I will wait for you forever" scene would be taken at face value if Shion were a woman. It might also be helpful to remember that there's a difference in perception between East and West concerning same gender relationships. Way back in Japan's history there were libidinal relationships, much like in Ancient Greece, that were considered socially acceptable. Same gender sexuality occurred among the Samurai class, but that did not mean the men were exclusively homosexual. Here in the West, many people seem to feel that any erotic contact between two males at all automatically makes them "Gay," though different rules seem to apply to females. Two girls can make out, but that just makes them risque, not gay. Curious. So, my take is that Shion and Nezumi are in love, though they might not be gay under any other circumstances, if that makes sense. I also think their relationship was really well done. The fact that the love story was not the only focus, but just an element in a show that had a nice plot, great mystery and terrific character development is something you don't see every day. It was a love story between two guys (romantic or not) that was handled with dignity rather than peddled as fan service, and it was done with enough subtlety that we are all wondering if we interpreted it correctly. Awesome! I hope it leads to more shows attempting to do the same thing. |
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JaffaOrange
 Posts: 251 |
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Even if the two were in love (they probably were in my opinion), whatever relationship building is let down in the ending and there is no payoff.
If it was going to end like that, why have any sort of romantic tension at all? |
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Ishmoo
Posts: 413 Location: Fredericksburg, VA |
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I can understand where you're coming from, especially with all the "I can't live without him" jive that kept going down on both of their parts. For them to just walk away from each other does seem to run a bit counter to their characters. That being said, I wouldn't expect a dystopian sci-fi to end all wrapped up in a bow with a shiny happy ending. In fact, I would probably find that to be a let down. And I wouldn't say there's no reason to include it just because they don't walk away into the sunset. I really liked the romance and think the show wouldn't have had the same resonance for people without it. As it is, spoiler[not one major character died]. The odds being largely against that, I'd say this show ended as happily as is possible for this genre. Adding any more sweetness at the end would have come across as really cheesy. |
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Bento-Box
Posts: 1049 Location: Florida |
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I'm going to agree with Ishmoo here.
I think the show ended as well as it could have. I think them going their separate ways was more of a necessity anyways. There's no way that both of them could have accomplished their personal goals while they were together. It's obvious that Shion is going to spoiler[reconnect with his mom] and probably help her out a bit for a while. And, I think it's safe to say that Nezumi will be spoiler[helping rebuild the town that was destroyed]. Both are going to need to help spoiler[their individual "sides" come to terms with the wall coming down and they can better accomplish that individually and just meet up later once things are more stable.] By the time it ended, Shion and Nezumi were both more comfortable with their relationship and with themselves. They had both come to understand that they would spoiler[be together no matter what happened] and were therefore mature enough to make the decision they made spoiler[to go their separate ways for the time being]. |
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Ishmoo
Posts: 413 Location: Fredericksburg, VA |
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Bento-Box - That's exactly how I saw the ending too, not as a permanent parting, but a temporary one. I do wish they'd kept some of the dialogue from the Novel. After the kiss, Shion asks if that was a kiss goodbye and Nezumi responds, "That was a kiss of Oath. We will see each other again." That answer is much less ambiguous.
If I imagine the story continuing, I'd expect to see Shion and Nezumi taking up leadership roles among the two different sides and trying to keep them from killing each other now that the wall is down. Nezum's right, something like that would lead to violence, looting, rape, etc... as those outside the wall let loose their fury on those from within. Remember that a whole bunch of people were just slaughtered by No. 6. There are going to be some very pissed off West blockers meeting some very soft, naive No. 6ers. Not exactly a recipe for a potluck. Someone will have to be the voice of reason for each faction. That's what I imagine the two of them doing anyway. |
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