Forum - View topicReading Between the Lines
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tlsmith1963
Posts: 100 |
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Here is what I thought was unfair: it seemed like he was saying that all sub fans don't get their anime legally. I am not strictly a sub fan, but that generalization was wrong. But maybe I misunderstood Answerman's point, I don't know.
Tammy |
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kollivier
Posts: 15 |
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Perhaps that is what matters to you, but for anime/manga creators what really matters is the ability to do what they love AND continue to eat and have a bed to sleep in. That does, in fact, require your checkbook. (Unless you're in Japan, where by watching the show you help get it advertising dollars.) If you do not help them out, you are not supporting them or their series in the sense of helping them to continue growing/running. This is a fact. Zac's statement wasn't grossly generalized as it was specifically about anime and not about manga or goods. He said, specifically, "anime fans". So, if you want to actually support an anime series that you watch, in most cases you need to either buy or rent the anime. (Only a few shows make it to TV here.) And, of those two options, renting is certainly a valid way of supporting the series, but buying does a LOT more to support the series than renting does. Many anime companies in the US are pretty reliant on those DVD sales. Whether you agree or disagree that a "real anime fan" should support their favorite anime series is your perogative. But there is little argument that in America the only way for most shows to get the support they need to survive is for people to go out and buy the DVDs. So, if you're not providing that support, you're not helping the American release of the show, or its creators, become a success here. Period. If you're in the US watching the Japanese/fansub release and not buying the Japanese DVDs, or renting from a local Japanese video store, you're not supporting the Japanese anime series either. Your love for the series may make you feel all warm inside, but that doesn't do anything to help all the people working hard to give you that entertainment you're so 'devoted' to. |
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Space Goats
Posts: 21 |
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This is such an awful example to use though. Are you comparing poor kids in Brazil who can't afford Pele merchandise to people who download fansubs because both are unable to support their hobby? Last I checked, downloading anime required a computer and broadband. If you own both of those you are automatically in a tier that is VERY capable of buying DVDs. Rather than try to justify that you a good person despite the fact that you download fansubs, just embrace your leecher ways and quit complaining. Honestly, if you want to say "I do support the anime industry by buying DVDs though I still download" then that's one thing, because you're not trying to justify. When you say "What about the people who are too poor to buy DVDs" then you're basically just grasping at straws. The kid who only gets to watch anime from his friends house on CN because his family doesn't have a TV, much less a computer is too poor to support the anime industry. The kid downloading entire series because he wants something to watch the next week after school doesn't have an excuse. |
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pythos
Posts: 127 Location: Denver, CO |
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Fansubbers are not getting it legally (unless they live in Japan). And they are violating Japanese copyright law my making it available to the public. See this ANN feature: animenewsnetwork.com/feature.php?id=144 |
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RyoShin
 Posts: 83 Location: Michigan |
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There's a rather large difference, though: The kids probably know of Pelé through magazines and/or TV, which are "free" and the kids are not expected to pay just to watch him play, and are fans as a result. This would be equivalent in the anime universe to a fan who watches an anime series on TV, or at some Anime Club meeting, or reads about it in a magazine. They aren't "taking away" anything. Those who download Anime off the internet... well, I can't really think of a good correlation in the soccer world. I guess it would be sneaking into the stadium to watch Pelé play while sitting in the nosebleed section. Ignoring the fact that Pelé probably makes an intoxicating amount of money, in both cases the activity is technically illegal, but in both cases no one is really harmed, so it's winked at. In fact, it can be helpful; fans of an anime they download are more likely to buy the series than to buy a series they've only read about, and those kids who sneak in will probably save what money they can to buy seats closer to the field to see the action better. What Zac was talking about, which I agree with, is that those who download anime on the internet with no intention on purchasing AND make stupid excuses that no one can own anime, MAN, and that the evil American anime companies butcher the series, MAN, are despicable and hurt the industry. (We'll ignore 4kids, which everyone hates equally.) Those kinds of people are the ones who will cause the large crack-down in fan-subs, should it ever come. The fact that ANN got so many responses about an OP-ED column which was posted TODAY (right?) that they had to put out a response to the mail is worrisome- it shows that a lot of people who read the article just skimmed through it and saw "people who download anime" and "deceitful creatures". Zac was going after what is probably a very small portion of the online anime community, a portion that doubtfully applies to many of us here. |
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hunterbiko
 Posts: 3 |
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I have to say I agree with Zac on many of this points. The fact of the matter most people who download and do not buy only do it because they are greedy and people who honestly think anime should be free are idiots.
I download tons of fansubs, this is a great way to see anime that has not or may never be licensed. It has introduced me to great series like Fullmetal Alchemist, Hunter x Hunter, Monster, One Piece, Noir and many many others. Since I have bills to pay I cannot really take a chance on a 19 - 30 dollar anime dvd, thanks to fansubs I usually have seen enough episodes to know if that DVD is worth buying. I do how ever still buy. It's an insult to the people who make anime and manga not to support their hard work by spending a little bit of your cash on their work everyonce in a while. How do you think these people get to do what they do for a living? The companies who pay them make money by selling dvd, merchandise, TV networks, licensing anime and other means. If they did not make a profit by doing this they could not afford to make anime. Many of these people argue that anime is "too expensive" these days, but obviously have forgotten what anime used to be like before DVDs and pop culture took it's effects. It used to be much more expensive and hard to get good anime, plus most dubs caused massive brain damage(some still do). It's only because the profits from anime sales have increased has this gotten any better. Now that bittorrent has arrived it has made the downloading of anime alot easier and has certianly helped me see tons of anime that I would never have gotten to see before, but this does not mean we should stop buying legit anime once it hits the stores. If we do not support the industry by purchasing anime, manga, and other merchandise it will be back to the days or Slayers dubs. catalog hunting, and hyper expensive anime. This is why I agree with Zac. |
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Bahamut God
 Posts: 113 |
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A lot of the "piracy is okay" folk do have something in common have something in common. They are poor. When I see people pound on those who download anime, I tend to see it as class warfare. I don't think anime should be free but if you honstly don't have any expendable income that shouldn't mean you can't watch your favorite TV shows. Personally, I buy as much as I can, but in a lot of cases it's either download or go without. Going without doesn't help the community either. Does this mean our worth as a fan is directly connected to our economic worth? |
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Chun-Li
 Posts: 31 |
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..well..if people download as a method of obtaining anime..then so be it..why is that other people get upset knowing that there are people out there who download and do not purchase the actual dvds?.. i think people who get upset or bothered by it are perhaps jealous...they may even feel ripped off?...or it's just not fair, etc...just leave those people, who can't afford it themselves, alone.......all you can do is show off all your wall-to-wall anime dvds..that's enough advertisement...no need to bash on other fans who don't show the same passion the way you do...
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Mugen1style
Posts: 281 Location: North of the wall |
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I for one support Zac and Cris I agree with both columes some people totaly took this whole thing wrong. If you never buy and always download instead you are a piece of crap, get over your self already. If you buy the product you like , you do not fit into the crapy people group. Fabsubs have a place in the anime community snoty self rightouse snobs do not! I am your averg guy , mabey not the smartest nor am I very good at writing but I can understand what I have read and what Zac said, sounded accurate to me. I see the same attitude all over the net as well and not just with anime. I have a decent sized collection and it cost me a small fortune which I had to work my dick off to buy. I do not think you can be a true fan if you spend no money on the licenced product. Make some sacrifices spend some money already you bunch of cheap punk's. Also why shouldent Cris defend Zac he wrote an opinion peice and a bunch of people atacked him for it. All the people who got mad must be the one's he was talking about. They demand apology's Because their little feelings got hurt ahh. Keep up the great columns.IMO.
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Tempest
 I Run this place.ANN Publisher  Posts: 10426 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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Perhaps they're jealous. Or perhaps they just really like good anime and want to see companies make more of it. With some anime companies clearly struggling financially, can you blame honest fans for wanting other people to start supporting the companies ? I can't speak for everyone, but I fall into the second group. -t |
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RyoShin
Posts: 83 Location: Michigan |
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Lets look at a scenario: I see an anime I'm interested in. After watching what anime is out now, I purchase the DVDs. This gives me high quality versions of what I downloaded, plus it shows the studios that there is interest in the series, and they should continue. But there are lots of other people out there who have as much interest as I do, yet don't purchase the DVDs. This shows less support for the show, and the producers decide there isn't enough interest to continue making more episodes, so it gets cut short. Was there plenty of interest? Sure. Was there plenty of interest as represented by DVD sales? No. Because those people didn't bother to support something they had interest in, it flopped, so no one gets new episodes. It's like communal punishment (where everyone is punished for the misdeeds of a few individuals), but in the wrong order. Now, there are people who download and can't afford to buy massive quantities of Anime. That's understandable. The people everyone is dissing right now, though, are those who download and make arbitrary arguments (some previously stated) as to why they won't buy DVDs and support the anime. |
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masaki86
 Posts: 23 |
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No no no. The fact is, I(and probably most of the others) get annoyed about people who exclusively download illegally because they are giving nothing back to the industry. I watch anime, I am entertained, the producers deserve to be paid, thus I support the R1/R2uK when it is released. By watching only fansubs, you are not giving anything to covering the costs of the hundreds of thousands/millions of dollars put into making the anime, and it is not fare on the people who put blood sweat and tears into making the show. How would you like it if you made a game. It reached a target audience of 100,000. However, instead of selling to that 100,000, it was exclusively downloaded illegally by 55% and only 45% bought it? Think about that. |
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ACDragonMaster
 Posts: 405 |
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I'm not even going to bother replying to this, because someone else already said it beter:
If someone is so "poor", how are they able to afford the means to download the fansubs in the first place? A decent computer costs at minimum a couple hundred dollars, not to mention a connectiong good enough to download that anime, you could probably buy a couple of DVDs for the monthly cost... Last edited by ACDragonMaster on Fri Oct 14, 2005 5:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Aaron White
Old Regular
Posts: 1365 Location: Birmingham, Alabama |
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I'm a long way from rich... now that I pay may own way I only occasionally spend time and money on anime. You know what I do when I have to without? I do without, quite happily. What, can't you think of fifty fun/worthwhile things to do, many of them free or cheap, other than watch anime? Life is chock full of great activities; watching anime is only one of them. People who think they rely on anime for purpose and pleasure in life really need to broaden their parameters. |
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Steroid
 Posts: 329 Location: At home, where all good hikikomori should be |
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Please don't try to tell me why I think what I think. That was the essence of what I was trying to get at. I've linked to my reasonings. If any of it is unclear I will gladly explain it further. If you think I am lying about what I think, you should present evidence, which is hard to do unless you've caught me arguing other, contradictory, ideas elsewhere. And even if I didn't hold to the arguments myself, they'd still be available for use and would need to be addressed. |
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