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Rahxephon91 wrote:

The world of HD Console games in Japan.

o_o; so what does that make all the other games that sell a lot more than that? EXTRA-huge hit? and I have played the game but I know better than to get into a dialog with you about it given your use of the word weeaboo and pedo and other derogatory words which indicate you won't be reasonable x_x Plus what I know of your anti-FF stance from other topics. So I'll just say I just found the game nothing special myself. I though the characters and story was generic and predictable for all the hype you're giving it. most zombie fiction falls into the same story tropes =\

No, it just makes those games hits of different caliber. Doesn't the PS3 only have one 1 million selling game in Japan. One that's part of a huge series?

And I don't think anyone's arguing that Last of Us is some huge huge FF game. It did pretty well and it did. It seems pretty stupid to argue against unless you have some strange anti-western fetish.

And yeah, give us you're PSN name and see if it's true. If it is my bad. I just have a hard time taking someone serious when they make such a bland and boring attack on the game. "It's just like Uncharted", thats basically what you said, which seems pretty impossible to me to believe you've played it. I feel like anyone who played could notice from the beginning, that playing it like an Uncharted game will get you nowhere.

But hey if you honestly believe it then fine, but I don't think thats true at all , so when you say something aginst the game that seems so false to me, then I'm going to say something.

And yes I must hate FF and be anti FF. I guess thats why I defend XIII a lot and seem to defend XV against it's dumb "no girls attack". Yep, not liking XIII-2 and thinking Lightning Returns must mean I hate the series.

lostrune wrote:

enurtsol wrote:

Concerning the circumstances, Last of Us did pretty well. Just be happy for it, can you do that?

Just pointing out that's not very good sales numbers in relative aspect. It's only #1 because nothing else came out that week.

What are you talking about? It's the sales figures that matters. First-week 117k for a console game is pretty good in Japan, no matter who makes it. In Japan, handheld games are king. Any console game that's not on Nintendo that sells over 100k is pretty good. Those are good sales numbers.

‘An experience unlike any other’ – Japanese gamers heap praise on The Last of Us
Hideo Kojima and Atsushi Inaba Approve of The Last of Us

lostrune wrote:

Especially when it's hyped as a system seller here in the states and being called game of the year, it did pretty poor all things considered. Just like Tomb Raider and Bioshock Infinite which may have gotten mucho praise in American circles but Japan didn't care for them either. It's not like Mario or Final Fantasy which sells where all over the globe. Wink

First of all, it wasn't hyped as a system seller. It didn't do poor at all, as I explained above. And who cares if Japan didn't care for them? Do you care that a lot of the West don't care for Japanese games? Do you care that Japan only makes up just 1/10th of the worldwide games market nowadays? And do you realize that FIFA, Call of Duty, and Madden each sold about 100 million copies already? That's perspective. Sometimes you overinflate the importance of Japan like it was back in the 90's. (Note: I'm not at all saying Japan is not significant, just not as it once was.)

Other than Nintendo's first party titles, this last generation has seen a large downturn in the popularity of Japanese games outside of Japan. The best-selling non-Nintendo Japanese-made game this generation was Gran Turismo 5, followed by Final Fantasy XIII and Resident Evil 5. In fact, of the top 50 best-selling non-Nintendo-developed console games, only eleven of the top fifty were made in Japan. And only two of those were in the top ten.

Crispy45 wrote:

>_> You just described half the people on the forums. Everyone's got a posting gimmick. enurtsol's just as anti-Japan and pro American,

What you consider anti-Japan, I consider a balanced approach. If ya guys haven't realize yet, I give props and cons both to Japan and America and any country for that matter. Probably because in the circles ya hang out with, ya cannot bear any criticism of Japan while never giving any props to America, that any criticism of Japan is automatically anti-Japan and any props to America is automatically considered pro-America. Meanwhile you, on the other hand, I don't recall even an instance of criticizing Japan or giving props to America once.

Without getting too much into this subject itself, I'd just like to say please don't bring articles on gaming websites into this. Gaming websites spin facts and numbers to promote whatever angle they want. I've seen them spin a game that sold 30K in Japan as "#1 game in Japan" because nothing else came out that week which seems a bit underhanded to do and gives off a false presentation. For example, your first article seems to cherry pick a quote from one person and paint it as some nation-wide sentiment among Japanese gamers, which is obviously false. The worst I've seen so far is saying Last of Us is 'popular' because of Ellie because "Japan loves cute little girls" when anyone can tell you western art aesthetics are frowned upon in Japan for the most part, often saying a big problem with yoge (American games) is they're ugly and have bad designs, so trying to attribute anything to her like she's some sex symbol over there is silly, but the average reader will go along with it and perpetuate the usual misinformed stereotype about little girls and what not because they don't know any better. I'm not sure what's a worse scenario; these people don't know anything about the scene yet are in an mouthpiece position or they do know and are instead choosing to willingly fudge the facts about it for the sake of page views. Either way, it's unfortunate people actually use their stuff as any kind of legitimate point or facts

That being said, I don't get the big deal. 110K isn't honestly that great. It might hit the 75th best selling game of 2013 in Japan at that number if 2012's numbers are anything to go by, but it's not really worth bragging about or getting all upset over. That's generally how the best selling western games do in Japan, which is generally below average by their own numbers. It's not going to take over Comiket anytime soon like some people are trying to say it will.

TitanXL wrote:

That being said, I don't get the big deal. 110K isn't honestly that great. It might hit the 75th best selling game of 2013 in Japan at that number if 2012's numbers are anything to go by,

Of the Top 100 console game sales in Japan 2012, only 25 are PS3 games. 117k on first week alone would already be the 19th best-selling PS3 game in Japan out of how many (look at some of the titles it already passed). If the 19th best-selling PS3 game in Japan annually isn't doing good, then PS3 in Japan is in trouble, which obviously it isn't. Especially Hideo Kojima and Atsushi Inaba's opinions have weight since they know how to make games that sell on either side of the ocean. Dunno where ya got the idea about taking over Comiket here; you're trying to set up a straw man.

The designs are a huge part of my problem with Western games, as well. I find it really pathetic how sometimes they even openly admit to being lazy with character design by telling fans they are modeling characters after real people. Wheres the uniqueness there?

Plus of course, realistic people lack any style and theres no real fun in seeing characters that look like some random person you'd see on the street. Anime styled games have far more unique character designs.

Last edited by Shenl742 on Sun Jun 30, 2013 10:47 am; edited 1 time in total

RyanSaotome wrote:

The designs are a huge part of my problem with Western games, as well. I find it really pathetic how sometimes they even openly admit to being lazy with character design by telling fans they are modeling characters after real people. Wheres the uniqueness there?

Plus of course, realistic people lack any style and theres no real fun in seeing characters that look like some random person you'd see on the street. Anime styled games have far more unique character designs.

I'm sorry, but I find this kind of mindset a little creepy and disturbing.

I mean...there's no kind way for me to say this, but you saying stuff like that (and I think you even once said you don't like "real women" because they're "flawed") and there's "no uniqueness in reality", makes me wonder a lot of things about you.

Shenl742 wrote:

RyanSaotome wrote:

The designs are a huge part of my problem with Western games, as well. I find it really pathetic how sometimes they even openly admit to being lazy with character design by telling fans they are modeling characters after real people. Wheres the uniqueness there?

Plus of course, realistic people lack any style and theres no real fun in seeing characters that look like some random person you'd see on the street. Anime styled games have far more unique character designs.

I'm sorry, but I find this kind of mindset a little creepy and disturbing.

I mean...there's no kind way for me to say this, but you saying stuff like that (and I think you even once said you don't like "real women" because they're "flawed"), makes legitimately wonder how often you get outside and actually interact with flesh and blood people.

Video games are fantasies and are fictional. Why should they emulate real life? They never tried to be super realistic and emulate real life until all the casuals started to flock gaming after Xbox came around.

RyanSaotome wrote:

Video games are fantasies and are fictional. Why should they emulate real life? They never tried to be super realistic and emulate real life until all the casuals started to flock gaming after Xbox came around.

I don't, know, because *I* find reality interesting as well? Do you?

I mean, stuff that's fictional, fantasy, and unrealistic is fine too. But something different can be nice too. Which is kind of paradoxical since we're talking about something different emulating something "similar" ("real life"). I think putting "realistic" people in "fantastic" situations can be pretty interesting too. Not everything about it as to be 100% unrealistic all the time.

And though I know everyone likes to blame the "Xbros" about why everything is starting to get realistic, I think it started long before that (at least since the PS2 era), and we can pretty much chalk early videogames being unrealistic more to graphical limitations and the fact that for a long time video games were initially targeted towards children.

Well first of all, it's extremely dumb to blame xbox for anything.

Xbox brought video games to the casuals? Well I mean lets first drop that as a negative, because more people playing games is not a negative. And 2nd lets drop that incorrect fact. No if anything did that it was the PS1 and then the huge PS2. Playstation is what brought gaming to the mainstream more then your scapegoat Xbox.

And xbox did not invent realistic art styles. There have always been games that have strived to look more realistic. Simulation games and whatnot have been on the PC forever. It's not some new thing and it's not some inferior thing.

"Anime" art is just as generic. it's not automatically superior because of well anything. All those Tales games are starting to blend together, that's how generic and boring they look to me. Big eyed anime girls are a dime a dozen. Hell if anything this gen, Japanese games have been turly meh when it comes to unqie art designs. Awesome stuff like Asura's Wrath or Catherine has been few and far between.

And this attack on realism and saying it's not stylish is completely wrong.

Look at Metal Gear Solid. A series that strives for a certain "realistic" look, but who's art design is impeccable. It looks realistic, but yet a MGS game sure has it's own look. Same goes for say a Grand Theft Auto. GTA4 sure upped the detail in it's search for a more grounded and realistic world, but if you call it generic you'd be wrong. Hell this is the same for pretty much every Rockstar game. I think it's lazy to just blanket these all as realistic and thus having no style, because it's not true at all. Hell look at Yakuza, nothing else looks like Yakuza. Oh but that's a Japanese game.

And why should video games emulate real life? Because I'm not a race car driver or a secret agent in real life.

RyanSaotome wrote:

The designs are a huge part of my problem with Western games, as well. I find it really pathetic how sometimes they even openly admit to being lazy with character design by telling fans they are modeling characters after real people. Wheres the uniqueness there?

Plus of course, realistic people lack any style and theres no real fun in seeing characters that look like some random person you'd see on the street. Anime styled games have far more unique character designs.

Designs depend on what they're aiming for. If they're aiming for realism, then of course they're not going to use cartoony characters. The US military uses war games to recruit and train soldiers and pilots; professional race car drivers use realistic video games to get some extra familiarity with the tracks; sports players want to see their favorite stars play onscreen; movie-based games would feature the iconic actors/actresses; RPG and horror games want to make players feel a real sense of danger; etc. Like the holodeck, those games want to put the players like in a dream/nightmare. (Plus let's not oversell anime designs tend to have their own un-uniqueness with just substitute different hair/colors and clothes on the same design template.) Designs are just tools; they each have their uses.

RyanSaotome wrote:

Video games are fantasies and are fictional. Why should they emulate real life? They never tried to be super realistic and emulate real life until all the casuals started to flock gaming after Xbox came around.

You must not have played PC games way back when. The reason console games didn't do much realism back then because their systems couldn't handle it yet or cartridges didn't have enough space. And real life can be fantastic too, but alas, not everyone can just be anyone fantastic in real life, and that's where games come in.

RyanSaotome wrote:

Video games are fantasies and are fictional. Why should they emulate real life? They never tried to be super realistic and emulate real life until all the casuals started to flock gaming after Xbox came around.

I agree with this it's like all the big games coming out here are shooters which use a realistic style I find kind of ugly. There's been 3 big American titles this year Bioshock, Tomb Raider, and now Last of Us and all of them are just similar style shooters which I don't like and think they're kind of ugly. Tomb Raider differs in you play as a brown haired white woman instead of a brown haired white male though. The games I played the most this year as Animal Crossing and Fire Emblem on my 3DS and I'm looking forward to Pikmin 3 and Tales of Xillia. All of them have bright, different, and unique art styles with radically different tones. I love those kinds of art styles a lot more and they seem to be more iconic and recognizable characters where you can instantly tell what game they belong in, while western devs seem to strive for appealing to the mass market white male gamer who can self insert as the hero. Different audiences and I'm not a part of that audience so if people like those kinds of games that's okay but I'm not their target demographic Smile

I guess my tastes line up more with Japan's.

RyanSaotome wrote:

I find it really pathetic how sometimes they even openly admit to being lazy with character design by telling fans they are modeling characters after real people.

The "Ellie" character was apparently modeled after Canadian actress Ellen Page without her consent, right down to her name. Ellen Page herself was a bit ticked off when she found out.

"I guess I should be flattered that they ripped off my likeness, but I am actually acting in a video game called Beyond Two Souls, so it was not appreciated."

Cultural differences between the industry are the main reason. Modern American gaming has become very much akin to the movie industry with incredibly huge budgets and marketing push. To that regard, for a game to be profitable, it needs to be aimed a a very large player base, which dumbs down the content by "standardizing" the work so it can appeal to more gamers. In that regard, games strive for realistic graphics because anything cartoony is considered 'for kids' and will not be tolerated. The problem with this is technology outdates itself very quickly which is why most of these games look terrible. A few years later they look even worse when we see technology advance even more and older games look terrible by comparison. Conversely, anime-based games like Castlevania: Symphony of the Night hold up even to today's standards because they go for a stylized look over realism.

This is why virtually every big game that America creates is a shooter, they are what sells and they are what needs to be created for companies to turn profits, and is for the most part why Japanese gamers do not care for American games very much. In Japan, American game has come to be associated with shooters because of this. I think we will not see a change anytime soon, however. More and more games will be tailored for the Call of Duty audience because that is what sells enough to justify their inflated budgets, which is why we got Lara Croft go from platforming and actually raiding tombs to her being a cover-based shooter fighting soldiers and pirates. The American market does not allow for much diversity and games will either fall in line or be left behind.

Not all hope is lost, however. The indie game scene has risen up to offer a bit of creativity out of the western development scene, though unfortunately I think most of them emulate other successful indie games when a success happens which is why you see so many Minecraft and Braid rip-offs so it's an unreliable market to point to for now, but I imagine it will be the industry most retro gamers and fans of Japanese games would be the most interest in.

Some of the dumbest and most bias posts here have been made today.

Yes people, Bioshock Infinite one of the most cartoony and colorful games this year looks just like The Last of Us and none feature a unique art style.

But Japan is so awesome. They don'y have those terrible FPS games. All hail monster hunting games.

And the art of anime based games is so unqie and awesome because it's anime, and anime is never generic except when it is which is plenty of the time.

And By the way, Ellie was never officially modeled after Ellen Paige and they changed her designed after people made the notice. So she dosen't even look like her. Her comment is from a Redit Q and A and it's unsure if she's talking about the new version. Check your facts.

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