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Araki wrote:

Gina Szanboti wrote:

I'm usually delighted when a movie or series can pull of a twist like that and I go back and see how it was right in front of me, but when I went back to listen to the set up again, nope, they cheated. I can't remember the exact dialog anymore, so it might just be a problem with translation into English, but it struck me as making no sense.

There was no cheat as they didn't change anything in the Japanese dialogue; no rewrites, nothing.
The only problem with the twist is that it doesn't translate well, as it's hard to convey the lines in English at the beginning without spoiling it.

I didn't watch the dub (not actually sure what version I watched with a friend) but I'm sure it would work just fine in English if they spoiler[ made use of the gender netural them / they for the also gender neutral アイツ　]

The English subs I watched did change the translation from the beginning to ending but it seems pointless when we have a word in English that could have worked just fine.

Sakura-Alchemist wrote:

I didn't watch the dub (not actually sure what version I watched with a friend) but I'm sure it would work just fine in English if they spoiler[ made use of the gender netural them / they for the also gender neutral アイツ　]

The English subs I watched did change the translation from the beginning to ending but it seems pointless when we have a word in English that could have worked just fine.

This definitely would not have worked. I've seen it used in fan translations, and it's a sure sign that someone's trying to spoiler[obfuscate gender for the sake of a twist], exactly as they're trying to do here. It would've tipped the audience off, because that's not how anyone actually talks in English when spoiler[gender] is known.

Shay Guy wrote:

This definitely would not have worked. I've seen it used in fan translations, and it's a sure sign that someone's trying to spoiler[obfuscate gender for the sake of a twist], exactly as they're trying to do here. It would've tipped the audience off, because that's not how anyone actually talks in English when spoiler[gender] is known.

You're correct in saying that spoiler[people tend to use a personal pronoun if they know the gender of the person they're talking about. That said, using "they" is a much better alternative to actually changing the bloody dialogue between the beginning and the ending of the film. It's an absolute copout and this sort of practice should never be tolerated. Also, I'll remind you that in some English-speaking countries, using "they" as a gender-neutral pronoun is perfectly acceptable - even when the actual gender is known - both in essays and in everyday speech. I didn't even pick up on the twist, because I'm so used to the word "they" that it wasn't weird for me to see it being used in that context.]

The issue being talked about here is not an issue at all in the Funimation dub and official subs because spoiler[the reference is translated as "the child" at both the front and back end of the series. Given that the speaker is elderly, it doesn't seem an overly suspicious or weird way to phrase it and avoids any hint of being gender-specific.]

Really, I think it was a stroke of genius on Funimation's part. Just avoid the problem altogether by making the script a little more interpretive.

But there were two references. I watched fansubs, but the dialog was, spoiler["Help us save that child. If it's you, you can become him (her). Become him (her) and save that child." Did Funimation skip over the "become" part?]

spoiler[I think it could have been avoided with a rewrite of what was being said. Something like, "You can become what has been lost. Only you can save that child."] An old guy speaking so formally would go unnoticed. Unless that's what they did. Smile

Also, spoiler[the doctor/therapist was erased from the opening scene], but I'm not sure why.

Instead of spoiler[saying "become him (her)," both the subtitles and the dub have him saying, "become human."] Solves the problem so neatly that one can't tell there ever was a problem.

And you're correct, spoiler[the doctor is cut out of the scene in the beginning, but that can be explained by a camera angle.]

Yep, that certainly works. Smile

And no, that can't be explained by the camera angle. spoiler[There is a wide shot (more than one, actually) when Q001 is at the doorway in both scenes. The doctor is not in the first, but he is in the second.] Again, I can't see that it makes a difference, but they must've had a reason for doing that, and at the time, coupled with the weak subs, that change felt like another cheat.

Theron wrote:

Mechanical humanoids have been used before in both anime and general science fiction to replace lost loved ones (Chobits, for instance), but I do not believe that doing so specifically for therapeutic reasons has ever been done before in anime. It opens up a realm of interesting possibilities on the psychological front; can a person achieve a sufficient sense of completion from interaction with a duplicate, for instance? The movies certainly suggests it is possible, especially if the behavior of the duplicate is modeled closely enough on the original – and that is certainly possible with an advanced AI designed to learn and extrapolate behavior from details like video clips and diary entries.

I am probably the one forumite obsessed enough with Tetsuwan Atomu/Astro Boy to respond to this. Now's my time to shine! Smile

Seriously though, I would say the "God of Manga" definitely touched on this in that franchise. The problem is that I don't think Tezuka explored this issue in depth enough. If you watch the 1982 version of AB for example, it is really only focused on for the first two episodes - first when Dr. Tenma creates Astro purely to replace his dead son (it seemed to be for his own therapeutic reasons, though he decides to make him the most deadly weapon on the planet in addition?). The Dr. tries to treat him just like he was his real human son, with comical effects such as the "boy robot" breaking furniture and being unable to digest food. Then again in the second episode Tenma continues to believe Astro is a replacement for Toby/Tobio, but Astro continues to struggle with controlling his immense robot strength, breaking things aboard the cruise ship, and is very badly discriminated against and then abandoned by his "father" who finally realizes it's not really his son.

I feel like Tezuka didn't go nearly far enough in extensively focusing on this issue throughout the series. A great example of how the character could/should have been explored is probably Data from Star Trek TNG. He has a similar type of character (an android trying to act human) but gets extensive development on his pseudo emotional struggles with his nature throughout the show. Astro does have an extensive struggle throughout his series with being discriminated against for being a robot, but the story seems to gloss over his origin after the initial portions and doesn't spend nearly enough time focusing on his personal relationship with the dead Toby character (so to speak).

Interestingly, in the recent American-made CG movie, I think the writers may have considered this issue, but their attempt to address it was a major fail. Instead of having Astro be his own person who is trying to live up to expectations of replacing Toby and deal with the discrimination of being a robot, they just made him into Toby/Tobio reborn in a robot body. (The story and acting were pretty weak too Sad

)

But yea, anyway, I do think the issue was covered in that franchise but it could have been done much more comprehensively.

I found this to be a fantastic movie!
I feel surprised nobody in the review or the comments has adressed the movie taking place in Kyoto, and integrating Gion and Daimonji into it, I thought it was done very cleverly, and allowed the movie to achieve a realistic "futuristic classic" feel. It's somewhat similar to what you get wondering around Kyoto these days, with classic architecture and ancient streets being gradually filled with smartphones, high-tech cameras and sitting nearby modern spectacles like the Kyoto station.

As for the animation and art, I also would have loved for the review to address that a bit. I found that the director chose some very unique and interesting shots, especially in the beginning, and drowning seemed to be a theme in this movie, which I thought was presented in very original ways. Both lightning and weather were also used very nicely, even if unrealistically at times. Just look at the scenes where it suddenly starts raining, a bit too convenient...

Again, overall really a great movie I know I will have to watch again sometime, original and really splendidly presented in such a short time.

Just having seen this film thanks to Anime Limited's Christmas sales, I'm left wondering what the heck it was all about. spoiler[Why does he decide that he is a robot? Why did they think that having an actual robot pretend to be a girl was the best way to convince him that he wasn't? What happened to poor Q-10 in the end?]

Key wrote:

My only point of contention was that spoiler[it seemed unrealistic that Kurumi's body would look so intact if she died from a plane exploding in mid-air and then crashing. I mean, I know funeral home operators can work wonders with dead bodies, but still].

That was the other thing that really bugged me.

Quote:

Oh, and for the person getting picky about the spelling: pretty sure that the spelling I used was what was in the official subtitles.

I'd have to check, but I'm sure it was Kyuichi or Kyuuichi - once I noticed the Q-01 on the robot I was left wondering whether it was supposed to be interpreted as a name in the subtitles or not. Which reminds me to check, and it's officially "キューイチ (Q01)".

BTW, there's a Christmas illustration up on the official Japanese site:
http://hal-anime.com/