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Madoka...AYUKAWA! wrote:

Hoppy800 wrote:

There's a reason I call TPP, the Tyrant Pacific Partnership, it pretty much destroys everything and benefits only corporate tyrants (it doesn't benefit the government either and they can be sued). The paper is a treaty for corporate rule, the worst nightmare in the history of humanity. Passing this treaty is like giving ISIS all the nuclear weapons in the world, you're just asking for death, doom, and destruction.

But IT IS the US government that is pushing for this evil, the US president is pushing it hard, the funny thing this does not benefit at all any of the other countries, its all so corporations (US ones) dominate and do as they please.

It's going bite them in the butt too, corporate tyranny in the US would have a field day suing our government. They are committing political suicide.

angelmcazares wrote:

I am not concerned with what happens with doujinshi (porn or non-porn) because I am not an avid consumer of it.

The doujinshi market is how many artists break into the manga world. Be concerned.

U.S. and Japanese companies want fanfiction and doujinshi to stay legal, for the most part, because they have all conducted numerous studies that prove that they will - for example - sell less Harry Potter merchandise if Harry Potter fanfiction is made illegal.

Here are some interesting academic papers discussing this and other topics related to the legality of doujinshi:

Noppe, Nele. 2011. "Why We Should Talk about Commodifying Fan Work." In "Textual Echoes," edited by Cyber Echoes, special issue, Transformative Works and Cultures, no. 8.

Noppe, Nele. 2010. "Dōjinshi Research as a Site of Opportunity for Manga Studies." Comics Worlds and the World of Comics: Towards Scholarship on a Global Scale, edited by Jaqueline Berndt, 123–42. Kyoto: International Manga Research Center, Kyoto Seika University, 2010.

Hellekson, Karen. 2009. "A Fannish Field of Value: Online Fan Gift Culture." Cinema Journal 48 (4): 113–18.

Abigail De Kosnik. "Should Fan Fiction Be Free?" Cinema Journal 48.4 (2009): 118-124.

Scott, Suzanne. 2009. "Repackaging fan culture: The regifting economy of ancillary content models." Transformative Works and Cultures, no. 3.

(Full disclosure: I am a published researcher in this field, although I focus mainly on fan works published within K-12 education programs.)

Polycell wrote:

angelmcazares wrote:

I am not concerned with what happens with doujinshi (porn or non-porn) because I am not an avid consumer of it.

The doujinshi market is how many artists break into the manga world. Be concerned.

And many established mangaka still routinely publish parody doujinshi (both porn and non-porn) because it's part of their life, an intertwining of the hobby fandom and professional spheres.

@BodaciousSpacePirate

Thanks for the links. A free doujinshi market can make an artist's work recognizable amongst the community. However, I wonder what this means for the corporations that staunchly oppose the idea of their works being distributed throughout the world, profit or not (Playing devil's advocate here.)?

Mr. Oshawott wrote:

@BodaciousSpacePirate

Thanks for the links. A free doujinshi market can make an artist's work recognizable amongst the community. However, I wonder what this means for the corporations that staunchly oppose the idea of their works being distributed throughout the world, profit or not?

The only issue is getting exposure by publishers, it's harder to do in a free doujinshi market unless the market goes entirely digital with a program for publishers to scout out new talent (Pixiv has done similar things through contests so an all digital free fanart and doujinshi environment can flourish).

I know this is gonna sound kinda stupid but, this didn't pass yet right? there's still a chance for it to get put out?

This is also the first I'm hearing of this TTP crap.

angelmcazares wrote:

walw6pK4Alo wrote:

Sure I'm more concerned with that smut, but you should be more concerned with everything in totality.

Mr. Oshawott wrote:

This should concern you, even if eroge doujinshi isn't your cup of tea.

I am not concerned with what happens with doujinshi (porn or non-porn) because I am not an avid consumer of it.

This kind of attitude is typical of people in general and kind of sad. "I don't care about anything until it effects me directly, and then I must protest". If every one thought like this, we would get no where as a society. I mean who cares about disease "x" because I don't have so I don't care to help find a cure. Or who cares about outlawing books, or art, or anything else, because I don't find enjoyment in it.

walw6pK4Alo wrote:

This was the major reason I'm against the TTP outright, without having to delve into the deeper and obviously more important economic and trade issues. I just don't want more prosecution and legal persecution to come down on artists doing parodies of licensed works.

I'll be honest, I don't know the wording of the TPP, but I would think parodies would be okay as long as they do not infringe on people's copyrights. Which such legal wording would help established manga artists who don't have the time or the money to go after people who are making money off their characters. Or artists from other nations that can't undertake legal action in another country because of the lack of legal channels.

So really the only doujin artists that would be hurting are those making money off Kishimoto with Naruto doujins, Oda with One Piece doujins, or Luke Skywalker in some Star Wars doujin. But if you're an aspiring manga artist that is selling doujins of your own characters or parodies (that don't violate copyrights), you shouldn't be concerned,

Never know, these original doujin artists might get more business as competition is eliminated. So it's not really doom and gloom as many here make it out to be.

Is the Doujinshi market anything besides porn for horny consumers and why should I care that it's going away?

I've read a lot of manga and not even one doujinshi and I don't feel like I've missed anything relevant..

Randomfart wrote:

Is the Doujinshi market anything besides porn for horny consumers and why should I care that it's going away?

The creators of Ghost in the Shell, Lupin III, Love Hina, Ranma 1/2, Hunter x Hunter, Black Butler, and Card Captor Sakura, among others, started as doujinshi artists.

Haibane Renmei was originally doujinshi. So was Hellsing, and Excel Saga. The only new chapters of Tenchi Muyo are released by the original author as doujinshi. The same is true of Gravitation.

So, yeah. It's more than just porn.

angelmcazares wrote:

I am not concerned with what happens with doujinshi (porn or non-porn) because I am not an avid consumer of it.

Doesn't the doujinshi market provide a place where artists can develop their skills?

Think of singers like Ayane and Nagi Yanagi who have sung on doujin works and gone on to be singers for anime.

(I attended M3, a music-related doujin event last month in Tokyo, and not only bought some CD's but also met Eiko Shimamiya, singer of the song Higurashi "When They Cry" OP).

walw6pK4Alo wrote:

Not even just porn, that also includes anyone doing completely non-provocative parody works, which is a greater number than those doing porn but never seems like that because they're not as sought after outside of Japan (not as readily scanned, uploaded, and scanlated). Doujinshi is not synonymous with porn, it just appears that way to us. So it could get rid of the smut AND things that were completely harmless and normal. Sure I'm more concerned with that smut, but you should be more concerned with everything in totality. Who knows where it ends, inability to even make fanart due to copyright violations?

Have they officially said that this law will ban Fanart? Does that mean even stuff posted on Deviantart or Fanfiction sites would become illegal?? I really hope not :/

And I though SOPA was bad... This is wayyy worse

Also, this would likely be devastating for those who do Abridged series', huh :/ I really hate this...

angelmcazares wrote:

I am not concerned with what happens with doujinshi (porn or non-porn) because I am not an avid consumer of it.

angelmcazares, my friend. Do you know how many times people have said something like this and lived to regret it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...

Quote:

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

I know that this gets trotted out a lot, but it holds true. At least the Japanese government is talking about this. It needs to be discussed.

Mark Gosdin

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