Forum - View topicINTEREST: Boruto Writer Ukyō Kodachi Shares Support For LGBTQ Representation in Fiction
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TsukasaElkKite
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This is fantastic.
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Cardcaptor Takato
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It's great to see more mainstream manga authors showing support for LGBTQ+ rep in anime and manga. While there has been a lot of titles with LGBTQ+ characters in them, I feel like the shonen demographic is still rather behind other genres like shojo or titles specifically aimed at BL and yuri fans. At the same time, I feel like a lot of shonen does rely on subtext to appeal to fujoshi fangirls like with Seraph of the End and even the original Naruo had that kiss scene between Naruto and Sasuke that was played for laughs and fanservice. But shonen rarely seems to go beyond the subtext level in spite of how large of casts shonen manga often have.
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darkchibi07
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I wonder if that explains that "blink-if-you-miss" final scene of episode 2 of Lord El-Melloi II Case Files.
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RestLessone
 Posts: 1426 Location: New York |
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While it's great he said it, does anyone know if he has actually written explicitly LGBT+ characters into his works?
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Animerican14
 Posts: 963 Location: Saint Louis, MO |
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Didn't think this would pique my interest much until I saw that he is the writer of the Case Files. Now that's interesting.
Which interview was this? And do you know which scene is being talked about? Based on what little vague bits I recall from any F/Z discussion (though I can't pinpoint the primary sources even then), I think it's a relationship that's been joked about skewing that way. I'm much less sure of there being actual, 100% straight-faced staff commentary of there being a sexually charged romance, at least as far as Zero is concerned. There seems to have been enough said and enough held back that the relationship between Iskandar and Waver can be validly interpreted a number of ways; I don't think SilverTalon's post is so uncommon an interpretation. For my part, there's definitely a "romance" that exists, but for me, it's more along the lines of a platonic romance lacking eros or sexual attraction. I mean, I can't realistically envision Waver (especially Case Files' frumpy 29 year-old one) as being sexually interested in anyone. But, there's definitely enough there for shippers to have their fun. |
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SilverTalon01
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The problem with what you're saying is that it only matters if the author makes it relevant or if they're using a generic stereotype instead of actual character traits. He mentioned the reason for straight characters, but there isn't a reason for that either unless you tie it into something (such as a relationship). If the author doesn't, then the sexual orientation doesn't matter no matter what it is *except* if the author is going for a stereotype.
You have a source on that? Regardless of his sexual orientation, it seems pretty clear Waver has never had sex. I don't see how you can explain everyone giving him shit for being a virgin otherwise. That said, if Urobutcher said otherwise in an interview, Waver is his character. |
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Top Gun
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That's not right at all, though. Think about just how many times you've heard a male character casually mention his wife being angry at him for running late, or a female character quipping about what sort of man would be her perfect date, or a child talking about her mom and dad, or a thousand other little irrelevant asides like this. None of them have any impact on the progression of a story, yet all of them establish a certain character as being heterosexual. Kodachi's point (at least as I read it) is that there's no reason why the same can't be true for LGBTQ characters as well. A character can mention their same-sex partner as an aside without it being some critical story point, because that's exactly how things work in real life too. I love the idea of an author having all sorts of ancillary details worked out in their mind about a character, even things that will probably never see the light of day in the story, because it can only help them write the character as an actual human being, instead of a series of plot-driving traits. (Maybe don't pull a Rowling with the information, though...) |
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Crispy45
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I'd also be curious, mainly because Fate has been the target of LGBT people for a few years now ever since FGO got mainstream in the west. So a small part of the western fandom have been dogmatic in saying certain characters are gay or trans despite either no evidence at all or outright contradictory evidence like in the case of Mordrid. I always take any uncited statement like this about Fate with a huge grain of salt because it's so common for people to try to spread misinformation.
If he wants to make his own series with gay people in it that's fine, but don't do it to another mangaka's work. That's just disrespectful, and more akin to what western media franchises do. |
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FinalVentCard
ANN Reviewer
 Posts: 520 |
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Yeah, I agree with this. I see so many people react to the discussion of LGBTQ characters by jumping to the argument that "they need to be done well and not just tokens" that it feels really disingenuous, particularly since we're starting to see so much media handle it well in the first place. And even if it isn't the best-handled... well, that's the beauty of having more of it. It won't be under pressure to be the best all the time. Also, representation is important man. Don't gatekeep characters under the excuse that they need to be "done well". |
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Cardcaptor Takato
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Agent355
 Posts: 5113 Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready... |
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So, spill, which Naruto/Boruto characters are LGBTQ? And don’t just point to Orochimaru, because as much as I like the character and like that gender doesn’t matter to them, Orochimaru still started out as a villain and fits into an old LGBTQ+ coded villain trope.
Also, I find it ironic since he who took over for a franchise so painfully straight that instead of just shipping it’s protagonist and rival, it had them paired up with women (which was just *weird* in Sasuke’s case, since he was never romantically interested in *anyone*) and gave them opposite gendered children, presumably to mix their genes eventually...(I’m not the only one who thinks Naruto had a boy and Sasuke had a girl so that there can be Naruto/Sasuke grandkids one day, am I?) 
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KPK10
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That's great of him to say and all but can someone name ONE character of his that is OPENLY LGBT?! because I sure can't.
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championferret
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[quote="SilverTalon01"]
I'm not sure if this is the same interview Yurigasaki is talking about but wink-nudge comments about Waver and Rider in interviews were all over the place while the show was airing. I'm not actually sure where this one is from (its a bunch of peoples thoughts on episode 13), but it got passed around a lot back when F/Z was airing. https://imgur.com/bGb4G It contains this line from Makoto Sanda: 'No matter how you look at it, that face Waver has waking up is a 'morning after' face, isn't it? It's like looking at a couple that ended up becoming intimate after always being together.' （この寝起きのウェイバーの顔は、どう見ても「事後」ですよね。なんだが、いつも一緒にいるうちにいつの間にかくっついてしまったカップルを見ているかのような」 In the second paragraph they say Team Rider is becoming like a shojo manga (with Waver as 'heroine'), and then later 'Rider and Waver have a lover's quarrel in the sunset...they're clearly lovers already!' (もう明らかに恋人同士！), compares Waver to a heroine in a dating sim with Rider as the protag, etc. Sure you could argue its just them joking around, but the fact is they did this -a lot-,. There was even that official AU Sensha Otoko that was literally a love story between Rider and a genderbent Waver. Jokes or not, this single article isnt the only evidence Waver isn't straight, he addresses Rider as 'anata' in the 'You are my King' part which frames it like a love confession, in the novel Urobuchi went out of his way to mention that Waver 'nearly ejaculated' when he saw Rider for the first time (there was literally no reason for him to use so graphic a word in Japanese if he only meant he was excited), their entire aesthetic is literally, intentionally meant to resemble an erastes and eromenos relationship, although it turns the dynamics on its head by having Waver be the master. As Lord el Melloi II he canonically is disinterested in women, which is a problem for him because he's so popular once he becomes a teacher (and is likely the real reason he's assumed to be a virgin, whether he actually is or not). The running thread in the entire Case File series is Waver chasing the chance to see Rider again. The most one could really argue is whether or not his affection was mutual. If Urobuchi has said anything concrete on it, I haven't seen it, but he certainly isn't a stranger to same-sex attracted characters such as Homura, who also didn't seem to need to say 'I am a lesbian' out loud for it to be obvious to anyone watching the show. Characters shouldn't have to say this out loud when their actions and speech patterns reveal plenty. (There's also the fact that a lot of the Waver content ended up cut from the original novels because it made it seem too much like he was the main character instead of Kiritsugu, so he was already getting disproportionate attention without Urobuchi spelling out every single thing about him. The cut content also was about him and Rider becoming the dads of a baby Assassin...I mean come on.) Meanwhile theres no evidence that he's straight, other than 'straight is the default, so unless this character literally turns to the camera and says 'god DAMN i love the same gender as me', they're definitely straight.' It's a double standard I've grown pretty tired of, because no one would even be doubting this if Waver was female, his attraction would just be accepted as fact(and given Sensha Otoko, it kinda..is) Ironically that kind of double standard seems to be exactly what Kodachi is trying to address with his statements, at least thats how I read them. |
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Kuroi Ren
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Waver saw him as a mentor and then a master (ironic since he's the master). You're seeing something that isn't there |
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Gemnist
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I’d prefer it not be Kawaki. If it turns out he is LGBT, him becoming a villain later on in the story might have some negative consequences as to who the audience sees as a representation of that demographic. As for Mitsuki, that’s a better possibility and it might make sense, though they seem to be pushing BoruSara so it not becoming canon might also be not a good way to do it since it may play into the stereotype that gay attractions are doomed to fail (albeit this one would theoretically have fewer consequences on the characters). Personally, I’ve actually had a minor interest in Itachi being gay or bisexual, with feelings for Shisui. While this may somewhat contradict Kodachi’s point, I think it would go a ways into enhancing his admiration for Shisui, and why Danzo targeted them specifically; plus it wouldn’t contradict Izumi’s role since Itachi was never shown reciprocating her crush, just acknowledging it. For the record though, that isn’t my head canon, just some food for thought.
That is the case. On the subject of Kishimoto, I’ve heard that he originally wanted Naruto and Sasuke to hold hands after their final battle, but Jump didn’t approve of it, so he had them losing their arms with their blood loss simulating them holding hands. |
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