Forum - View topic

REVIEW: Puella Magi Madoka Magica Vol. 3 Blu-ray

What's the point in differentiating it from

Quote:

Overall (sub) : A+

then?

Red Fox of Fire wrote:

-> Overall (dub) : A+ -> − One questionable character moment, dub's weak. Huh?

It means that even though the dub wasn't as good as it could have been, it didn't detract from the overall experience of the show.

True the show was over, but instead of having the show go out with a bang, they had it go out with a whimper. That's the difference between a great show and a masterpiece in my opinion.

One of the things I thought would have been a more interesting ending is if Madoka had instead wished that Kyuubey experienced human emotions. Then, to avoid becoming a witch, she could have committed suicide. That would have been a much darker ending which would have been in keeping with the tragedy of the overall story.

What's the point in differentiating it from

Quote:

Overall (sub) : A+

then?

I'm actually on a break from ANN, but I decided to ... break it. *sigh*. Some things are too tempting.

With regards to Chibi Kangaroo's comment about the ending being 'conventional' -- I do think it is conventional, but I think that it is precisely its strength.

I think it all depends on what you think makes a good story. I read through most of the entries here and a lot of it seems to be focused on the plot. I think a plothole-proof plot is pointless. It reminds me of what some people do when they start writing their novels. They draft, and draft, and draft their worldbuilding to such a point that they feel that they have covered all their plotholes. The novel itself never gets written.

For me, a story's most important aspects are its aesthetic elements (how well the script is written, the look and appearance of every shot) and how well it succeeds in conveying its themes. Shakespeare nearly wrote Hamlet into a corner after all (rescued by pirates wha-?), and the ending feels very rushed; it doesn't change the fact that it is a really, really good play.

Puella Magi Madoka Magica is a subversion of the magical girl genre, but instead of taking it and then grinding it into the dust, it breathes new life into the conventions of the genre. Tropes that can be found in many magical girl stories -- innocence triumphing over all, adoleascence and coming of age, the girl becoming all-powerful -- are present here, but in Madoka Magica the impact is felt. These tropes are used so often that when they appear in other magical girl stories we feel that they are...cheap sentiment. In the ending of Madoka Magica, the audience feels the hope that should be received when the girl becomes all-powerful and innocence triumphs over despair.

Emotional resonance is something extremely subjective though, so I don't blame Chibi Kangaroo, and many others, for not 'feeling it'. I simply object to the idea that people who genuinely like the show are simply trying to overcome a 'flaw' in the ending -- I don't see it as a flaw.

To me there's very little value in making Puella Magi Madoka Magica as dark and nihilistic as possible. One might as well watch a few stock characters turn into magical girls, and then have them kill and torture each other again and again in each episode (I actually thought Madoka Magica would turn out this way, and was pleasantly surprised when it didn't). We already have plenty of films that go along these lines. Obviously, we turn to entertainment, and we value our entertainment, on concepts other than 'how dark can you go'.

NavyCherub wrote:

What's the point in differentiating it from Quote: Overall (sub) : A+ then?

I believe the "overall (dub)" rating is for the overall enjoyment of the show while listening to the dub instead of a rating of the dub itself (?) Saying that a dub is mediocre and giving the show an "overall (dub): A+" would mean that the dub's quality doesn't detract from the overall enjoyment of the show. (I think )

Ok I could potentially buy into this. The ending being conventional intentionally to revitalize the genre. I'll think about that some more, but I probably am more interested in the idea of the dark ending just because we don't get too many of them. However, I think you make a good point.

Not to reign on your parade - I didn't include the whole previous quote from dandelion for the sake of space - but Urobuchi said specifically at Sakura-Con this year that he never intended Puella Magi Madoka Magica to be a subversion or revitalization of the magical girl genre.

amagee wrote:

Not to reign on your parade - I didn't include the whole previous quote from dandelion for the sake of space - but Urobuchi said specifically at Sakura-Con this year that he never intended Puella Magi Madoka Magica to be a subversion or revitalization of the magical girl genre.

Ultimately, Madoka reaffirmed the core themes of the genre.

ChibiKangaroo wrote:

One of the things I thought would have been a more interesting ending is if Madoka had instead wished that Kyuubey experienced human emotions. Then, to avoid becoming a witch, she could have committed suicide. That would have been a much darker ending which would have been in keeping with the tragedy of the overall story. Additionally, with Kyuubey experiencing human emotions, maybe the next season or iteration of the show could have been him being changed and trying to help magical girls escape the cycle. He could have gone up against his own people or something with Homura's help. That would have been far more fascinating to me than just having Madoka take care of everything via godhood and like I said, the overall dark theme could have remained intact.

I suggest you read the last few pages of discussion, pay close attention to Willag's posts, because he makes the point the clearest (even more than I do). Suffice to say, this demonstrates a complete lack of understanding of Madoka's character, her motivations and her ultimate goals. While your suggestion is nice in a schadenfreude sort of way, it honestly doesn't accomplish much other than "revenge". That is not how Madoka thinks, and not something she would do.

amagee wrote:

Not to reign on your parade - I didn't include the whole previous quote from dandelion for the sake of space - but Urobuchi said specifically at Sakura-Con this year that he never intended Puella Magi Madoka Magica to be a subversion or revitalization of the magical girl genre.

Ultimately, Madoka reaffirmed the core themes of the genre.

I don't think this would be schadenfreude. Madoka wouldn't be doing it to take revenge on Kyuubey, she would be doing it to save him, and perhaps also save countless others when he changes his ways and perhaps even leads his people to a different path. One thing that I agree hasn't changed is that Kyuubey's people are still as calculating as before with their manipulation of humans. Who knows what kinds of things he or his people might do in the future. Given that his people seem to be extremely powerful beings with some control over the future of mankind, I think she would have been giving far greater hope to humanity by saving Kyuubey than by saving the current iteration of magical girls. Like I said, then sacrificing herself (via suicide, much like Kyoko) would have been just as messianic of sacrifice as what she ended up doing in the actual show, but it would have been much more tragic and dark which would have been more in keeping with the theme of the show.

It stole too many plot points from my favorite Magical Girl series (Mai Hime) and the overall show was just....meh.

ChibiKangaroo wrote:

I don't think this would be schadenfreude. Madoka wouldn't be doing it to take revenge on Kyuubey, she would be doing it to save him, and perhaps also save countless others when he changes his ways and perhaps even leads his people to a different path. One thing that I agree hasn't changed is that Kyuubey's people are still as calculating as before with their manipulation of humans. Who knows what kinds of things he or his people might do in the future. Given that his people seem to be extremely powerful beings with some control over the future of mankind, I think she would have been giving far greater hope to humanity by saving Kyuubey than by saving the current iteration of magical girls. Like I said, then sacrificing herself (via suicide, much like Kyoko) would have been just as messianic of sacrifice as what she ended up doing in the actual show, but it would have been much more tragic and dark which would have been more in keeping with the theme of the show.

While that is an interesting contention, and actually does have some merits as a concept, I cannot see Madoka doing that.

Madoka's goal was maximum effect with minimal unintended consequences (always the devil is in the details when it comes to wishes). Quite frankly, I don't think she had any interest in "saving" the Incubators, whatever they may actually be. She was interested in only one thing, eliminating witches.

Assuming what Kyuubey told her about Entropy was true (and she had no reason to believe it wasn't, Kyuubey has no record of lying, and had no reason to lie at that point), then their goal was laudible, despite their methods. So she changed the system, eliminating the worst injustice of it, while leaving the core concept intact.

I could see the argument that this violates the core theme of the show, but thats only if you assume that the theme was not, in the end, what Madoka expressed. That Hope is not in vain.

And keep in mind, she didn't just save the "current iteration" of magical girls. She saved EVERY Magical Girl. Every. Single. One. Alive, dead and yet to live.

If she really wanted to be the embodiment of hope, she should have found the power within herself without asking for Kyubey's help and then used that power to return the magical girls who use soul gems back to their original state (within their bodies) and then the problem would be solved. If she's as powerful as Kyubey says she is, then she could have found a way to do this on her own. Instead, she just relied on the person who started the entire mess to begin with, which, IMO, gives Kyubey the "last laugh" anyway, no matter what she wished for.

Another thing I don't get is...how did witches come to be in the first place? I know in order to become a witch, one must become a magical girl. To become a magical girl, one must make a wish in exchange. So going by that, why would the very "first" girls become magical girls in the first place? There's no witches to fight, no need to have the powers to defeat the "evil witches" which only magical girls can defeat....where's the explanation for that? I highly doubt that the first girls would become magical girls just to get their wishes granted and be in an ever lasting contract back in the old days.