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EP. REVIEW: Fate/stay night: Unlimited Blade Works

Videogamep wrote:

Sorry, I can't. I remember reading an article about a year ago (I have a really good memory for useless details) where I think it was Nasu who said it wouldn't be a sequel. I have no idea how to find it now, though.

http://www.siliconera.com/2014/01/31/fatestay-night-co-creator-talks-upcoming-anime/
Whether that's credible is another story though

The way I interpreted it was spoiler[as much as he accepts how and who he is, he still wants to know if something birthed to be evil (as he is) is something that's actually allowed in the world. He wants to know if Angra will judge itself for what it is of it'll accept itself]

I remember read about the same Type-Moon Ace magazine article including the translation of the interview in another site and pretty much is what they say, that this anime is not intended to be a sequel of Fate/Zero. That was said not by Nasu but by ufotable.

killjoy_the wrote:

The way I interpreted it was spoiler[as much as he accepts how and who he is, he still wants to know if something birthed to be evil (as he is) is something that's actually allowed in the world. He wants to know if Angra will judge itself for what it is of it'll accept itself]

Yeah, I greatly oversimplified. spoiler[While I do agree that is related to his development in Zero, I think that is actually less of a direct resolution of how he was left in Zero than Fate's approach. This is him becoming aware of something he had no idea of in Zero and is more like a new path that opened up.] Fate's approach is a more direct continuation of what Kirei was going for at the end of Zero. I'd say Fate's works better, but both work. So while HF also resolves Kirei's development from Zero, Fate resolves that and Saber's. So again, if you're looking for a route to tie up the most loose ends from Zero, Fate is best choice.

Jonny Mendes wrote:

I remember read about the same Type-Moon Ace magazine article including the translation of the interview in another site and pretty much is what they say, that this anime is not intended to be a sequel of Fate/Zero. That was said not by Nasu but by ufotable.

Yeah, but who made this UBW anime adaption and who was only responsible for the original material (and I think brought in to consult)? Those responsible for this adaption are who gets final say on the intent of the UBW anime.

I am a fan of epilogues which show where the characters are months or years later, so seeing Rin with the more mature hairdo was a nice touch, as was seeing Luvia (from the Prisma Illya series) pop up, but I also agree that Rin making keeping Shiro in line her life goal seemed like a bit of a character betrayal. But getting to see Rin act naturally, rather than as a full-blown tsundere, was a treat.

Regarding both the review and some of the comments about the line "My life's goal is to make you into a new man - one who's thoroughly happy". Notice that it was a terrible mistranslation.
The word in Japanese is not life's goal but 野望 which means desire or ambition. That is very different from a life's goal. I guess that the translator chose this translation because he saw it as a sort of marriage proposal, but it really doesn't fit Rin's character at all.

Shirou needed to fight Gil for narrative reasons, in order to fully commit to the rethinking of his ideal. The whole point of that fight was to show that a fake, whether it be an ideal or a sword, would be able to overcome the original, as an extension of Shirou's ideal. And that's really all the thematic justification that the Shirou vs Gil fight needed.

The series's primary protagonist is always going to be Shirou, for better or for worse; the last arc in Unlimited Blade Works, a route that is most concerned with his character, would do well to have him at least try and face Gilgamesh as the Final Boss. It's quite thematically appropriate in of itself for Shirou, the would-be Hero of Justice, to try and beat him, the Evil that Must be Defeated. After a battle with Archer in which he reaffirms his ideals of not just wanting to "save everyone" but also be a hero, wouldn't it do a disservice to Shirou's growth (as shonen-powered as it is) if he wasn't forced into a fight where he had to prove the strength of his "Answer?"

I don't think Fate/Zero put a whole lot of stock into a potential clash between Gilgamesh and Saber, at least not enough to warrant that they absolutely had to have a final battle with each other ten years later. Gil seemed to only take serious notice of Saber a few times in the Fate/Zero anime, as far as I can recall-- most notably at the Banquet of Kings, where Gil likened her anguished face to that of a 'virgin being deflowered in bed', and his 'proposal' right before the Grail was destroyed. (And I think part of why there was that prior history between Gil and Saber in the first place was to justify Gil's role as a bit more than an NTR antagonist to Shirou in the Fate route, where Shirou was romantically involved with Saber.) At this point, with there being so little development or reminders of that "relationship", as you already noted, I ultimately see no more reason for Saber to fight Gil than for Shirou to fight Gil beyond 'I want to see this character I like more have a chance to do more stuff.' (Which I can really sympathize with, but such 'preference' isn't everything.) It may be enough for Saber to come face-to-face with the corrupted Grail that she so painstakingly sought-- a black hole vomiting forth 'mud' from high up above a bloated and fleshy vessel-- to find some further closure.

“This might be a little extreme, but in terms of story and picture, please think of [Fate/Stay Night] as a different thing from Zero. Stay Night’s goals and Zero’s goals are different things. If we were to impertinently connect the two, the story and mood would be ruined. Stay Night and Zero were written by different authors and have different stories, so they must both be respected in such a way.”

Nasu felt a little unreasonable and thought that he was taking the risk of saying something irrational, but was relieved to hear the staff members respond with, “Of course, we understand. This is not a sequel to Zero, but a new Stay Night.”

Additionally, ufotable say that, while both production staff and viewers may tend to view the new Fate/Stay Night anime as a “sequel to Zero,” they’re attempting to create their adaptation of Fate/Stay Night independently of Fate/Zero, since Zero was able to be what it is using the original Fate/Stay Night game as a foundation.

I don't care about that, as a sequel to Zero (and yes, it is a sequel I remember the menger of Ufotable even said it will "Feel like a follow up to Zero") they should have made Saber fight Gil and give more focus to her and her story!

This is why as an anime-only watcher I felt completely unsatisfied with this show.

I don't care about that, as a sequel to Zero (and yes, it is a sequel I remember the menger of Ufotable even said it will "Feel like a follow up to Zero") they should have made Saber fight Gil and give more focus to her and her story!

This is why as an anime-only watcher I felt completely unsatisfied with this show.

kpk wrote:

I don't care about that, as a sequel to Zero (and yes, it is a sequel I remember the menger of Ufotable even said it will "Feel like a follow up to Zero") they should have made Saber fight Gil and give more focus to her and her story! This is why as an anime-only watcher I felt completely unsatisfied with this show.

Well then as an anime watcher only you can watch the DEENime? There you have Saber vs Gilgamesh.

Caramichael wrote:

kpk wrote: I don't care about that, as a sequel to Zero (and yes, it is a sequel I remember the menger of Ufotable even said it will "Feel like a follow up to Zero") they should have made Saber fight Gil and give more focus to her and her story! This is why as an anime-only watcher I felt completely unsatisfied with this show. Well then as an anime watcher only you can watch the DEENime? There you have Saber vs Gilgamesh.

I already watched it but I would have loved to watch it with Ufotable's level of production. For today's standards it doesn't stand up.

I already watched it but I would have loved to watch it with Ufotable's level of production. For today's standards it doesn't hold up.

Beside that's not the point, the point was they should have made it feel more like a sequel and more satisfying for anime only watchers.

Beside that's not the point, the point was they should have made it feel more like a sequel and more satisfying for anime only watchers.

kpk wrote:

I already watched it but I would have loved to watch it with Ufotable's level of production. For today's standards it doesn't hold up. Beside that's not the point, the point was they should have made it feel more like a sequel and more satisfying for anime only watchers.

If that's the way you're going to continue feeling about it, there's also the VN or select parts of it, which while not animated provides a fuller picture of Saber. Type-Moon was kind enough to... er, make the Fate route (RN version) freely available to android/iphone(?) users. It would have been neat if that was given an official translation for English users.

With UBW being over now and having lifted next-to-nothing from the Fate route, though-- even if it did give Saber more resolution than vanilla UBW-- I think it's more likely that an ufotable adaptation of the Fate route will get made someday. They could work in material from the BD Box 1 light novel called "Garden of Avalon" or at least adapt it together with the Realta Nua exclusive called "Last Episode" .

Now it may seem weird for it to be the last ufotable adaptation, considering the general consumption order is Fate > UBW> HF and that "Fate" in general is regarded as a sort of "tutorial" route. However, it makes better sense when you consider that Nasu would probably heavily rewrite it anyway (IIRC he said as much if Fate was to be the starting ufotable anime adaptation), and that "Last Episode" is something that, although it unlocks after having completed all three routes in RN, ties most directly with the Fate route.

As a casual anime viewer, I can see why this show is fun to watch but too complicated to keep your head wrapped around with all the 'remember this because of that' jazz that the show throws around. Also all the *nudge nudge wink winks* that it keeps poking at the VN fans that just sail over a casual watcher's head.