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EP. REVIEW: Mobile Suit Gundam: The Witch From Mercury


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Philmister978



Joined: 12 Jun 2011
Posts: 311
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 4:17 pm Reply with quote
I find it funny that the animation for the characters is still struggling when this isn't an issue exclusive to this series - every Gundam title made for TV since the original have had this issue. Good character animation has almost exclusively been reserved for OVAs, movies and side projects.
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TJ_Kat



Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 370
Location: Saskatoon, Canada
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 12:46 pm Reply with quote
I've had the idea bouncing around in my head for a couple weeks now that if rather than this being Gundam-does-Utena or Gundam-does-Evangelion as I've seen people say, what if it's Gundam-does-Pacific Rim? What if the solution to the GUND's datastream problem is that it needs two consciousnesses to handle the load? Going back to the Prologue, Lfrith didn't have a successful callback from layer 33 until Eri and Elenora were BOTH in the cockpit. This would lend credibility to the Eri=Aerial theory - the Aerial being Eri's GUND body being by far the simplest in-universe solution.

I could see this opening the door for an interesting mid-series upgrade where Suletta loses the Aerial and gets a new Gundam with a tandem cockpit where Suletta and Miorine can pilot together.

All pure speculation and wishful thinking, but why not.
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Thesarum



Joined: 25 Mar 2022
Posts: 422
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 2:11 pm Reply with quote
MagicianMan wrote:
Maybe the real Gundam was the Eri's we made along the way.

This is a crime.

TJ_Kat wrote:
I've had the idea bouncing around in my head for a couple weeks now that if rather than this being Gundam-does-Utena or Gundam-does-Evangelion as I've seen people say, what if it's Gundam-does-Pacific Rim? What if the solution to the GUND's datastream problem is that it needs two consciousnesses to handle the load? Going back to the Prologue, Lfrith didn't have a successful callback from layer 33 until Eri and Elenora were BOTH in the cockpit. This would lend credibility to the Eri=Aerial theory - the Aerial being Eri's GUND body being by far the simplest in-universe solution.

I could see this opening the door for an interesting mid-series upgrade where Suletta loses the Aerial and gets a new Gundam with a tandem cockpit where Suletta and Miorine can pilot together.

All pure speculation and wishful thinking, but why not.

Much as I love the idea of Suletta and Miorine tandem piloting, Miorine's strength is strategy and planning, and she should probably keep doing that. She needs to a little less autocratic with her team, and a little more considerate, but she's got the makings of a decent commander in her.

If we want speculative future GUND-Arm products... how's this for a spitball:

At the movement, nobody seems to appreciate what makes Aerial special. Suletta knows something of the truth, but doesn't seem to realise all Gundams aren't like that. It certainly doesn't appear obvious to her that everyone else doesn't know what Aerial is. She says Aerial is like her sister like it's the most obvious thing in the world. She's completely unguarded about it, but doesn't try to explain it. Miorine doesn't know (yet), and seems to assume everyone's just lying about Gundams killing their pilots (hence the idea of borrowing Pharact). After all, Elan also pilots a Gundam and neither he nor Sulleta are dead, right? It's not clear the the data Prospera passed over to Miorine includes this key detail either. She seemed to be encouraging the idea that the GUND format was universally safe in the meeting they had. It was "people are afraid of new things" not "there was a genuine problem but we worked out how to fix it".

So - they build themselves a Gundam. Guel signs on as test pilot (it's gotta be better than working for his Dad?). Gundam data-storm kills him (popular consensus is that he has unavoidable death flags). He is prideful and reckless after all. How's Vim Jeturk, and especially Lauda going to react to that? Cue: war. Initially within the Benrit group (Jeturk&Grassley v GUND-Arm&Peil probably), but that's sure to soon drag in the wider Earth v Space tensions. And this is how we get to the misery.
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MagicianMan



Joined: 28 Jun 2020
Posts: 122
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 4:32 pm Reply with quote
Looking at the news reports shown in the prologue, I'm pretty sure there's extensive documented proof of the side effects that Gundam pilots suffered from. I don't think Miorine has any doubts about that. The issue is that both Peil and Shin Sei claim to have fixed that flaw. We know that Peil is straight up lying, and we don't know if whatever is going on under Aerial's hood is ethical/repeatable either. My question is if Miorine wants her company to go back to the medical application of the tech instead of the industrial/military applications why do they need to build their own mobile suits again?

I also don't think the Gun-format side effects are something that kills you after just a few runs, unless you just jump in and crank the sync rate up to max. It's something that deteriorates your health over time. I think it would be difficult for Gun-Arm co. to accidentally kill a test pilot before realizing something was wrong.
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Thesarum



Joined: 25 Mar 2022
Posts: 422
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2022 7:01 pm Reply with quote
MagicianMan wrote:
Looking at the news reports shown in the prologue, I'm pretty sure there's extensive documented proof of the side effects that Gundam pilots suffered from. I don't think Miorine has any doubts about that. The issue is that both Peil and Shin Sei claim to have fixed that flaw. We know that Peil is straight up lying, and we don't know if whatever is going on under Aerial's hood is ethical/repeatable either. My question is if Miorine wants her company to go back to the medical application of the tech instead of the industrial/military applications why do they need to build their own mobile suits again?

I also don't think the Gun-format side effects are something that kills you after just a few runs, unless you just jump in and crank the sync rate up to max. It's something that deteriorates your health over time. I think it would be difficult for Gun-Arm co. to accidentally kill a test pilot before realizing something was wrong.


Aww, that's no fun.

Ok, to defend my nonsense:
Yes, we've seen the coverage and debate, but that aired before Miorine was born. She said to Prospera "our generation don't know anything about Gundams". It's not clear how much information about gundams has been suppressed by Cathedra, or how much Miorine trusts what is available.
(Counterpoint: She did find the video about Vanadis, so I guess it is unlikely she didn't uncover any of the contemporary reports in the dangers of gundams)
re. Medical use: This aspect of their business plan isn't entirely clear. Their promotional video heavily features a Mobile Suit, and Miorine wanted the team duel streamed as promotional material. That doesn't imply their focus is prosthetic limbs does it? So non-combat Mobile Suits? Mobile Suits merely as a means to fund their more humane relief work? (And, practically speaking, we're not going to have our main pair walk away from Mobile Suits in a show funded by a company that sells model kits of said 60ft robots).
Yes, data storm issues seem to be seems to be a ticking clock that ticks faster the higher you set the permet link score. But come on, it's Guel! He's gonna ignore any safety advice and try tough out the storm isn't he? He'd refuse to back down and quit. It'd be less an accident and more "Guel is an idiot".
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zfunk



Joined: 05 Nov 2016
Posts: 261
PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2022 9:56 am Reply with quote
Is this is how Guel dies, man that would be anti climatic. Just a new guy who suddenly in the middle of something he is clue less in. Though ironically since his dad is partly responsible for this.

I don't know if Duelling dies or not, I don't think he and Miorine have made enough progress in making peace in their relationship, I don't think that he is ready to die yet. We will see, would put Miorine in a tight spot already. But if he does die at the hands of these people, who have a relationship with Niki, that would be interesting.

It is sad to see Suletta and Miorine starting to drift apart, and we have a new fake Elan.

Two more episode left, and I am sure there will be deaths in the next couple of episodes, the last one for sure. Guel probably not long for the world, Duelling I say it is 50 / 50. He probably not to going to make it to the end to the series, but now?
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MagicianMan



Joined: 28 Jun 2020
Posts: 122
PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2022 3:00 pm Reply with quote
I think that's exactly why Delling could potentially die. Just as Miorine is starting to make a real conection with her estranged father he's killed by Prospera and Gundams. Leaving her relationship with Suletta, Gundams, and Earthians in a bad place.

I guess it makes sense in hindsight that the new Gundams would be from earth. Earthians were the ones originally building them in the first place after all. I just didn't expect the Earthians would be the ones portrayed as the "bad guys" here. The two new witches are definitely giving off some real "crazy cyber newtype" vibes.

No new episode until the 25th, only more questions.
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NeverConvex
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Joined: 08 Jun 2013
Posts: 2341
PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2022 3:22 pm Reply with quote
This is a little bit random, but: has the story given us any in-universe reason that witches is gendered? Were the first GUND protocol users all women? I guess the lead inventor was, and a number of the staff, including Prospera. I was going to ask if the protocol itself was only compatible with a female pilot, but the Elan(s) kind of serve as a counterexample there.
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SHD



Joined: 05 Apr 2015
Posts: 1752
PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2022 4:07 pm Reply with quote
NeverConvex wrote:
This is a little bit random, but: has the story given us any in-universe reason that witches is gendered? Were the first GUND protocol users all women? I guess the lead inventor was, and a number of the staff, including Prospera. I was going to ask if the protocol itself was only compatible with a female pilot, but the Elan(s) kind of serve as a counterexample there.

I'm just kind of assuming that they're called witches after whashername the inventor. She was a woman, she created a curse - she was a witch. And since it seems that as the project leader she became the single target of the huge backlash against the protocol (witch-hunt? ha!) I guess the nickname just stuck.

Then again, now that I think about it, most everyone we know so far who is/was involved with the curse on a high enough level are women, I mean the inventor, Elnora/Prospera, the Peil sisterhood, now Suletta, and with the exception of the big guy the newly introduced Earthian hitman gang is also mostly female. And consider that while yes, the Elans are also pilots, the first fake Elan's ability in being able to link with the AI was clearly nowhere near Suletta's level - to the point where he concluded that Suletta managed to overcome the curse. So who knows. I guess there will be some explanation in the remaining two episodes.
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Rahxephon91



Joined: 08 Jun 2003
Posts: 1859
Location: Park Forest IL.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2022 10:05 pm Reply with quote
So I'm going to finish out this season, but it's doubtful I'll return. This has just been a dreadfully boring show that I dislike. I see that it speaks to other people, but the direction they went is just not what I'm looking for in a Gundam show.

Now I think how this first half will end will be breaking the native of Suletta which is good because it's been dragged out to the point of being obnoxious.
I think Lady Prospera will kill Dieling and take over whatever he's working on. She will reveal herself as the main antagonist and maybe reveal how she does not give a fudge about Suletta. It won't surprise me if she tries to kill her only for Airel to turn aginst her.

I've been told I'm stupid because I don't get the capitalism whatever talk in this show. Whatever I don't care, I don't find it engaging or interesting. I can't stand teens in anime being able to do more beyond their station. And while yes 18 year olds can be enturpenuers, I find it outlandish how these teens behave in regards to the whole company aspect. Almost as outlandish as the duel concept.

It would work with me better if the school was scary and felt threatening as a setting, but it doesn't. Seems like the kids can do anything and really beyond the quite frankly cringe-groom stuff. I think the show has done a poor job really selling the crippling control over most of these characters that I feel the story wants to present.

Yes, the duel reps for the main companies are clearly framed as extensions of what their adults are doing. How they use them is representative of their tactics. Anyone who's experienced anime knows all to well the themes of "adults are bad". It's not compelling here for me. In fact it seems rather stupid. Of course, Shaddiq is adopted which seems like a superfluous anime thing, but also why would his father reveal something rather important to him in front of his harem? Why do all these teenagers have all these connections?

But also most of these characters aren't characters. I hardly know anything about most of the supporting cast. The show has done an awful job giving most of these characters presence and or well character. I don't care that blue haired character is a traitor as I know nothing about her. People say this show has good characters, I don't see it. I don't see interesting dynamics. I don't see interesting conflicts.

Suletta has so little agency in this show it's almost insulting. Mio is just a boring tsundere character and their groomship shit just feels like a cheap very anime way to get these two characters together, because the writing has not yet given me anything really compelling to chew on as to how these characters work together.

I get that I'm in the minority, but I watch this show with my gf and we both sit here just unengaged.
I've shown her Seed, IBO, 08th MS team. Among other anime like Gurren Lagann, Full Metal Alchemist 2003, Macross Plus, Code Geass, and Giant Robo. The Gundam stuff has gone over well because each show has a compelling cast with interesting dynamics and conflicts that grab you. We both feel none of that is in Witch. I wish I could see what people see in this.
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ATastySub
Past ANN Contributor


Joined: 19 Jan 2012
Posts: 655
PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2022 10:39 pm Reply with quote
Rahxephon91 wrote:
So I'm going to finish out this season, but it's doubtful I'll return. This has just been a dreadfully boring show that I dislike. I see that it speaks to other people, but the direction they went is just not what I'm looking for in a Gundam show.

Now I think how this first half will end will be breaking the native of Suletta which is good because it's been dragged out to the point of being obnoxious.
I think Lady Prospera will kill Dieling and take over whatever he's working on. She will reveal herself as the main antagonist and maybe reveal how she does not give a fudge about Suletta. It won't surprise me if she tries to kill her only for Airel to turn aginst her.

I've been told I'm stupid because I don't get the capitalism whatever talk in this show. Whatever I don't care, I don't find it engaging or interesting. I can't stand teens in anime being able to do more beyond their station. And while yes 18 year olds can be enturpenuers, I find it outlandish how these teens behave in regards to the whole company aspect. Almost as outlandish as the duel concept.

It would work with me better if the school was scary and felt threatening as a setting, but it doesn't. Seems like the kids can do anything and really beyond the quite frankly cringe-groom stuff. I think the show has done a poor job really selling the crippling control over most of these characters that I feel the story wants to present.

Yes, the duel reps for the main companies are clearly framed as extensions of what their adults are doing. How they use them is representative of their tactics. Anyone who's experienced anime knows all to well the themes of "adults are bad". It's not compelling here for me. In fact it seems rather stupid. Of course, Shaddiq is adopted which seems like a superfluous anime thing, but also why would his father reveal something rather important to him in front of his harem? Why do all these teenagers have all these connections?

But also most of these characters aren't characters. I hardly know anything about most of the supporting cast. The show has done an awful job giving most of these characters presence and or well character. I don't care that blue haired character is a traitor as I know nothing about her. People say this show has good characters, I don't see it. I don't see interesting dynamics. I don't see interesting conflicts.

Suletta has so little agency in this show it's almost insulting. Mio is just a boring tsundere character and their groomship shit just feels like a cheap very anime way to get these two characters together, because the writing has not yet given me anything really compelling to chew on as to how these characters work together.

I get that I'm in the minority, but I watch this show with my gf and we both sit here just unengaged.
I've shown her Seed, IBO, 08th MS team. Among other anime like Gurren Lagann, Full Metal Alchemist 2003, Macross Plus, Code Geass, and Giant Robo. The Gundam stuff has gone over well because each show has a compelling cast with interesting dynamics and conflicts that grab you. We both feel none of that is in Witch. I wish I could see what people see in this.

Got some bad news for you about the age and traits of the characters in those other shows. But good to know we can look forward to the next cour of the show without the same post every week!
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John the Dark Lord



Joined: 19 Jun 2020
Posts: 238
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2022 8:29 am Reply with quote
NeverConvex wrote:
This is a little bit random, but: has the story given us any in-universe reason that witches is gendered? Were the first GUND protocol users all women? I guess the lead inventor was, and a number of the staff, including Prospera. I was going to ask if the protocol itself was only compatible with a female pilot, but the Elan(s) kind of serve as a counterexample there.


Fun fact: The infamous book Malleus Maleficarum, which Delling referenced in the Prologue ("we must take the hammer to the witches"), while a virulently misogynist book, did in fact acknowledge that men could be witches too, it's just that "women were weaker to devil's temptation" or something. Centuries of witch-hunting made people forget that part. So yeah, Elan could be called a witch too, in the context of the show.
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LastPage 3



Joined: 13 Jun 2010
Posts: 193
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2022 10:47 am Reply with quote
Rahxephon91 wrote:
And while yes 18 year olds can be enturpenuers, I find it outlandish how these teens behave in regards to the whole company aspect. Almost as outlandish as the duel concept.


Have you considered that you simply don't like children in media? You certainly wouldn't be the first.

Quote:
It would work with me better if the school was scary and felt threatening as a setting, but it doesn't.


A school run by a megacorp where kids are being used as pawns by adults seems quite frightening to me already, but sure.

Quote:
Of course, Shaddiq is adopted which seems like a superfluous anime thing


Do you think adoption only exists in anime?

Quote:
but also why would his father reveal something rather important to him in front of his harem? Why do all these teenagers have all these connections?


They work for him, just like Shaddiq.
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TheKillerAngel



Joined: 02 Mar 2018
Posts: 84
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2022 11:30 am Reply with quote
I find it interesting that this thread has 2x the replies of the Chainsaw Man one.
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MFrontier



Joined: 13 Apr 2014
Posts: 11766
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2022 11:38 am Reply with quote
It seems like despite everything Miorine does, on some level, want her father to praise her and him actually complimenting her for once is enough to leave her more cheery. Which means she probably wouldn't be happy with Shaddiq trying to kill him.

Maybe also Miorine focusing so much on work and being practical to the point where she's not overt or honest with her sentiments that it can be misconstrued that she doesn't care was the same issue that plagued her father this whole time.

It sucks that Suletta has found friends and confidence but what she values most of all (other than Aerial), her relationship with Miorine, is seemingly being treated by Miorine as not being important. Which isn't Miorine's intention, but it leaves Suletta feeling doubts about how close they really are.

I didn't think Elan #5 could be creepier than OG!Elan, but somehow he is. At least Suletta realized he's off compared to the Elan she knew, but not quite the reason why yet.

Bob. He is a Guel! Although in all seriousness it's nice to see Guel happy and finding fulfillment, even if a Gundam still shows up to screw with him. He'll probably end up fighting in an MS at this rate.

So not only is Nika involved with what appears to be an Earth-based terrorist group (also Earth has really seen better days) but they're also involved with Shaddiq and have their own Gundams.

It's all coming together for an exciting climax on Planet Quetta!
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