Forum - View topicThe Best Anime of 2016
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Starbuckets
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VoidWitch
 Posts: 157 |
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Shippers have tendency to overreact, I ll give you that. Look between the pages. There is a big difference between "They held hands" in x context and "They held hands" in y context etc etc
Because it's fun to exaggerate? And because your stance is completely and totally conspiratorial one? It's not like I didn't have actual issues with YoI.
Seems legit. In this particular situation it doesn't matter if the bias exists within YoI community. There is no hard evidence and never will be. Do I think there is % of people with bias? Sure! But how many people? And how strong the bias is? What is % of bias per viewer? These questions are unanswerable. They are not even good for a thought exercise.
I just don't see where you are coming from. What was the point of the original message? "Think about why YoI is popular!" Everybody already knows why. YoI is a refreshing take on queer representation in anime. Just like I said in my first reply
Your "encouraging" is quite funny. Who are you encouraging? Why? What biases and desires made you do that? I assume that it comes from you thinking that people who love YoI are unaware of their own biases. What made you think that? Why does it matter?
Examples, please? Do you count in culture factors?
Apparently "the door" can swing only one way. What an amazing trail of thought.
You will never stop to amuse me with your awful, poorly researched, non-evidential batshit crazy messages. Will you ever post legitimate source to studies and statistics from which you are taking all... that?
I bet you have never read a piece of BL work in your life and I bet you don't know anything about BL history either. You wouldn't be "wondering" if you did. Last edited by VoidWitch on Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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CrowLia
 Posts: 5505 Location: Mexico |
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Huh, so my personal top 3 aligns perfectly with the overall critics' data. Neat. I haven't watched your name or Re:Zero, I plan on watching the former eventually but I must say I'm not a fan of Shinkai so I'm not particularly pumped about it, and in spite of all the praises sung for Re:Zero, all I've read about it makes it sound terribly uncompelling, but maybe I'll give it a shot... also eventually. Thanks for compiling the data, willag, although I know you didn't do it out of altruistic sacrifice 
No, that is not what she said at all. What she said is that she would leave it up to viewers' interpretation if the kiss scene at the end of episode 7 was a kiss or a hug, but every other comment she's made on the matter are all but explicit in that it was meant to be a kiss. Her comments about how she "created a world in which no one would be discriminated for who they love" and the fact that Victor has been modeled after openly gay celebrities and characters leaves basically no room for interpretation, not that you'd care. Last edited by CrowLia on Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:42 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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residentgrigo
 Posts: 2442 Location: Germany |
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I can recommend Erased 7/10 from the user poll results and nothing else. It´s my runner up and I would have voted for it too, if the 2nd half wasn´t such a rushed mess. Reading the manga is thus essential to even follow along! Hups. I further lasted 3 episodes with Yaoi on Ice. Aka. the new Free!. How I voted:
March comes in like a lion 9/10 No Honey and Clover but what is. Shouwa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu 8,5/10 A rare (good) Josei anime. More of these please. Durarara!! x2 The Third Arc 8/10 The whole LN was a bit bloated by the end but you gonna love the cast. Jojo's Bizarre Adventure: Diamond is Unbreakable 8/10 The pacing was a mess but how rare are good Shounen action anime. Lupin the Third Part IV 7,5/10 The 1st half was better. This anime year was a washout, so was 2015, but 2017 has good ones in the pipeline. Onwards and upwards. Last edited by residentgrigo on Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:40 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Sloppy_Jimbo
 Posts: 98 |
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The theme of my top 5 Anime of 2016 is...elevators! No, please keep reading. It gets better!
#5 Keijo!!!!!!!! Imagine you are trying to get on an elevator, coffee thermos at you lips. The door opens and two hot women are slapping their cheeks together trying vigorously to push each other out the door. You choke on the coffee and spill it down your suit. The first words that come to your befuddled brain are whiskey, tango, foxtrot! #4 Jojo's Bizzare Adventure's: Diamond is Unbreakable Imagine you are trapped on an elevator with two burly, intimidating men. They immediately start staring each other down. The tension grows to the breaking point, then suddenly one of the bruisers goes flying back crashing into the wall with a sickening thud, blood flying everywhere. You get an overwhelming urge to strike a manly pose and start a running commentary! #3 Thuderbolt Fantasy Imagine you step into an elevator and see a three foot tall green man with stalks growing out of his head. He is wearing a top hat, suit with long coattails, monocle in one eye, and a can in his three fingered hand. The ceiling light splits into two and focuses on him. Zany music starts blaring from the speakers. He starts singing and dancing! You start clapping your hands and stomping your feet in time to the music. #2 Flip Flappers Imagine you are riding an elevator with a magic pixie dream girl. She offers you a glowing pipe and you take a hit of pixie dust. You go on an "adventure" with her and wake up in the ER. #1 Sound! Euphonium (Both Seasons) Imagine you step on an elevator and happen to encounter your high school crush from 10 years ago. You had put them on a pedestal and were to afraid to even speak to them much back them. You are speechless for a moment, but work up the nerve to speak to your crush about nothing in particular. To your amazement the object of your unrequited love is even more incredible than you had imagined, yet far more normal and approachable than you expected. You take a chance and ask to treat them to lunch. They say yes! Beethoven's ninth starts playing on the speaker. Worst Anime of 2016 Re:Zero Imagine you get up in the morning. You shave, shower, feed the dog, skip breakfast; your morning routine. You drive to work, traffic is heavy as usual. Once there you put on the coffee, check your emails, make a few phone calls, gossip with your associate one cubicle over, etc. At noon you beat feet to the exit. You're going to get a sub at your favorite deli. You get on the 5th story elevator and click the button only to notice Larry. You HATE Larry. You start pushing the button frantically, but nope you're stuck with Larry. As soon as the door slams shut like the lid to a coffin, your "best friend" starting blabbering about his problems. At floor 2.5 the cab screeches to a halt! That doesn't stop him though. He just won't shut up! You don't escape until THREE hours later when service is restored. The next day you shave, shower, feed the dog, skip breakfast; your morning routine. You drive to work, traffic is heavy as usual. Once there you put on the coffee, check your emails, make a few phone calls, gossip with your associate one cubicle over, etc. At noon you beat feet to the exit. You're going to get a sub at your favorite deli. You get on the 5th story elevator and click the button only to notice Larry. You HATE Larry. You start pushing the button frantically, but nope you're stuck with Larry. As soon as the door slams shut like the lid to a coffin, your "best friend" starting blabbering about his problems. At floor 2.5 the cab screeches to a halt! That doesn't stop him though. He just won't shut up! You don't escape until THREE hours later when service is restored. The next day you shave, shower, feed the dog, skip breakfast; your morning routine. You drive to work, traffic is heavy as usual. Once there you put on the coffee, check your emails, make a few phone calls, gossip with your associate one cubicle over, etc. At noon you beat feet to the exit. You're going to get a sub at your favorite deli. You get on the 5th story elevator and click the button only to notice Larry. You HATE Larry. You start pushing the button frantically, but nope you're stuck with Larry. As soon as the door slams shut like the lid to a coffin, your "best friend" starting blabbering about his problems. At floor 2.5 the cab screeches to a halt! That doesn't stop him though. He just won't shut up! You don't escape until THREE hours later when service is restored. MAKE IT STOP!!!! Last edited by Sloppy_Jimbo on Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:44 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Jose Cruz
 Posts: 1778 Location: South America |
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Overall I would say I found this year to be relatively weak on "masterpiece" level shows. While there is certainly a lot of good stuff I haven't found any super impressive show like "Ping Pong", "From the New World", "Yamato 2199" or "Madoka" in there. Several good shows but nothing that's really "wow, that blew me out of the water". The closest thing to that was Re:Zero and that was a 9/10 show for me not a 10/10.
Well, Your Name is a 10/10 but that's a 2 hour film. It's perhaps the best animated film since Takahata's Tale of Princess Kaguyahime. Last edited by Jose Cruz on Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11419 |
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Well, 3 of my picks made it into the top 12, so not so bad, I guess.
I wonder about the 65 people who voted for Gakuen Handsome as AOTY, putting it ahead of Trickster and Classicaloid (which aren't AOTY either, but c'mon), and I say that as someone who thought GH was a lot of fun.
Since you're doing all this introspection, have you ever seen the opposite re male/female characters? I.e., "Sure they held hands [and exchanged rings, and he kissed her hand, and they hug at the drop of a hat], but that doesn't mean they're straight. You're reading way too much into that." Do you get why we're kinda tired of this? Really, there's way more "they're totally just friends" dismissal of subtext out there for same-sex pairs than for opposite-sex pairs. Even in YoI people are leaping to dismiss Victyuuri because Yuuri thought Yuuko (his childhood friend, married with 3 kids) was "still cute" which "proves" he's straight. Have you examined your own feelings about why you've never noticed that? Or why you only notice the fauxtoshipping of same-sex characters? And just to head off this straw man, I'm not saying you're homophobic, just that you seem to be every bit as insular in your thinking as you're making out the YoI fandom to be. Honestly though, I'm not clear on your motivation for raising the "is it really good though, or are they just seeing it through their yaoi goggles?" issue. If you're really interested in if it's "really" good, just bite the bullet and watch it yourself, and make your own decision. As you say, everybody sees stuff through their own subjective lenses, and one person's treasure is another's trash. You can only decide which YoI is if you see it for yourself. You might even like it! @ Sloppy_Jimbo: Um, I think the pixie dust from Flip Flappers was still in the elevator for your Thunderbolt Fantasy ride. 
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Jose Cruz
Posts: 1778 Location: South America |
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Maybe because, like, 98% of the population is straight so if two persons of the same gender are really close they are more probably close friends than sexual partners. While we tend to think that two persons of opposite genders that are really close are also sexual partners. That's very "straight centric" and also very "sex centric" since many people don't think straight people could be really close friends with people from the opposide gender. Although, I see the characters in Yuri on Ice as obviously gay. Like, the show is like some of the gayest stuff ever which I think is very cool. |
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gabuhaha
 Posts: 136 |
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Or hey, it could actually be a good show that lots of people liked. A show that got people who don't normally watch anime or haven't watched anime in years to watch. How many shows that aren't action shows aimed at males can you say that about? Is it perfect? No. The pacing has issues in some paces and the animation noticeably dropped in some places but overall, it was an incredibly well done show. Here are some good things about the show: 1. The depth of detail on figure skating was incredible. They literally included things all the way down the logos on the skates. Real life figure skaters were praising how well it was done. Johnny Weir even said here: http://thegeekiary.com/johnny-weir-watched-yuri-ice/40241
2. Yuri is an incredibly relatable MC. He get anxious, depressed and also binge-eats and actually gains weight when he's depressed. He didn't magically lose the weight. He had to work it off. There's no real antagonist in the show because Yuri's anxiety and depression are the things holding him back. 3. It devoted a lot of time to other competitors. Sometimes this was a detriment to the pacing but it also made you really feel for them. How many sports shows can successfully make people hate a character in one episode only to start liking them 2 episodes later? Very few. 4. The OST is really good and there are a lot of catchy songs. It was actually trending on US itunes the day it came out. 5. The best of the routines were really well animated and a treat to watch. 6. The show overall was very happy in tone and never failed to make me smile or laugh at least once per episode, sometimes the entire episode. 7. And yes, there was also a well done relationship between two of the main characters who happened to both be male. 8. It's a show that made people want to watch it right away. It literally messed up the servers on Crunchyroll the day of the finale because so many people wanted to watch it the instant it came out. For the last few episodes of the show, it was the most popular show on Crunchyroll for a day, above Naruto, Dragon Ball and One Piece. Basically, it has something for a lot of people. I saw people who watched it more as a sports show, some more for the relationship, and some that just really appreciated having such a relatable MC. I liked it for all 3. |
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Showsni
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Aw, now I feel sorry for Larry. All he wants is a friend! |
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musouka
Posts: 709 |
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Gee, it's too bad you have no possible way of deciding the show's merits except assuming people added "+2 for homosexuality". If only it was readily available online in its entirety on a very popular streaming site so you could at least watch the first episode before running your mouth! If only! |
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Vaisaga
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If saying "Even if it's good show there could be other factors contributing to its popularity" is conspiratorial, then guilty as charged. You're acting like I'm saying "No one actually likes the show! It's all an act!" which is not what I'm saying at all.
Well, I can tell you how many people have bias. It's 100%. What bias in particular? That's the question. And yes, it is good for thought exercise. The "objective quality" of a work is never the whole picture. Garbage like Twilight and 50 Shades of Grey are super popular. Why? It's because there's no clear cut answers that it's worth discussing.
Okay, so why does refreshing queer representation = popular? Why does it matter if the portrayal is good or bad? Why is it important for these things to be represented in media? These are all rhetorical questions so you don't need to answer. My point is there is much more to this than just "it's a good show." You can just accept things at face value, sure, but I think it's better to dig deeper.
Who? People in general. Why? Because I think it's a good thing to expand your thinking. My biases and desires? I studied psychology and in general I like to help people. I suck at sports so I emphasize intellectual pursuits instead. And it's not YoI fans that are unaware, it's most people in general. According to my courses, being able to identify and separate one's biases from a critical evaluation is a more advanced mental skill. I try (and often fail) to put that into practise and encourage others to try as well.
I forgot which yuri title it was (I think it had Aoi in the title?), but there was an ANN article where some one involved in the anime outright said there'd be no 2nd season because disc sales were so bad. And I actually can't think of a single full confirmation 0 ambiguity yuri title that has a 2nd season. Where as titles like K-ON and Sound! Euphonium are huge hits and their fandoms are quite passionate about them.
Uh, do you and Stuart Smith have a history? Just wanna make sure that you're not confusing what he said as something I said.
Pardon me, I was under the impression this was a discussion thread. And no, my original question was not "good or goggles" it was "how much is good, how much is goggles." Plenty of posts in response listing the good stuff, but people are getting rather defensive about the latter.
Pretty much this. And why is it like that? That's just the society we've been brought up in. Hundreds of years thinking straight is "normal" no one is going to be able to shake that off right away. Changing such norms is a long and hard fight as I'm sure you all know.
And never once did I say it wasn't. I was very open about not having seen it so I couldn't say either way. But I don't need to have seen it to know that, as you've pointed out, an actual figure skater will appreciate more about the show than a non-figure skater. Does being a figure skating show make it fundamentally better than a non-figure skating show? Is a gay couple fundamentally better than a straight couple? No. It's the viewer who assigns specific values to those elements.
Except some people did? Zac and I'm sure many like him ranked it high because it meant a lot to him personally. That is completely removed from the quality of the show. That's the kind of thing I want people to think about. It doesn't diminish the overall quality or importance of the show. |
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Valhern
 Posts: 916 |
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I have a hard time with this argument of "Okay, you like Yuri on Ice because it has a gay relationship and that appeals to you, but do you actually like the show?". It's not that it's asking whether you legitimately like the show or not, it is if you like it for legitimate reasons.
And that on itself sounds weird. It doesn't really make sense to ask someone if they are sure they know the reasons they like or don't like something. In the Euphonium weekly thread I discussed there with someone that felt passionately bad about how some relationships turned out, and when I asked them "Okay, but try to take a slight stepback and see it from a different angle" and they didn't want that because they felt an emotional attachment to the angle they were looking the series through, I may not have agreed, but I do clearly understand that their feelings is what determines how much they like something. Similarly, I loved the character of Asuka. Technically speaking, I could go on and on about how narratively great her character is, probably a lot of people can, some with a more profound analysis, some more superficial. However, in my case, and probably other people, I felt a emotional connection to the character that was beyond pure narrative and writing, it was the feeling that was put into the character that got through me. And that's what art is about, it's about making you feel that you love what you're experiencing, beyond being capable to understand and dig further into its concepts or trying to understand that feeling. And people felt that way with Yuri On Ice, I didn't (still think it's a neat show), some did with Re:zero and ERASED, I sure as hell didn't either, but hey, it just works like that. There's no point in that baseless fear of "Oh no, people like things I don't, now they'll make a crap ton of that thing I don't like", and trying to pin that on people whose opinions aren't apparently correct. We might debate on whether the industry is taking the right step in strenghtening their content for certain audiences, that would be a valid take on it, but not the fact that people are liking it, that doesn't seem like worth the discussion. Last edited by Valhern on Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:05 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Takamachi Ryoko
 Posts: 332 Location: 東京, 日本 |
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A little late but I find the lack of Assassination Classroom 2 and Ajin 2 disturbing, I feel the second seasons really stepped up their game. Anyway my list
1 .Assassination Classroom 2 2. Showa Genroku Rakugo Shinjuu 3. 91 Days 4. JoJo part 4 5. Re:Zero 6. Keijo!!!!!!!! 7. Konosuba 8. Sakamoto desuga 9. Drifters 10. GATE 2 Honorable mention: Ajin 2, Kuromukuro, Twin Star Exorcists, Vivid Strike, Sansha Sanyou. Haven't watched thos Yuri, Academia, Mob Psycho yet. |
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Pantha
Posts: 169 |
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Yuri On Ice is surprisingly good. It really is. However, the show certainly wouldn't have enjoyed the same level of popularity had Yuri, or more interestingly, Viktor , been female. Knowing this put a bad taste in my mouth. Excessive hype can negatively affect a person's perception of a show and it is part of the reason why I rated the show Very Good instead of Excellent.
After I completed the show, I went on MAL to read what others thought of it. I was surprised to find out spoiler[ the kiss in episode 7 was "censored." I thought I watched an uncensored version until I re-watched the scene to understand what was being talked about. Please, arm in the way or no, that was a goddamn kiss. ]. There were quite a few on MAL arguing over the nature of the relationship between Yuri and Viktor. Regardless of the sexual orientation of either character, a romantic relationship between two men is definitely part of the story. It's not explicit or in-your-face, but it's very hard to argue that it's not there, either. Trust me on this.
I despise yaoi, shounen-ai, boy's love, or whatever the hell you want to call it. It's my least favorite genre after ecchi harems. I know I don't like the genre because I watched a few. I Do. Not. Like. It. With the nickname "Yaoi On Ice," I avoided this show like the plague. Refused to watch it. Part of the reasons why I gave in is because of the hype and I noticed that ANN is the only site that gives Yuri On Ice the shounen-ai tag. Other sites like Anime-Planet or MAL do not have such a label. And that's my point. I strongly believe that it needs such a label. Yuri On Ice's central relationship is a romantic one between two males and said relationship is a big part of the show; therefore, a label is warranted. By the second episode of YoI, I was wondering why I even bothered. (At this point, Viktor was annoyingly stereotypical). I'm part of a mainstream audience and I do not want to see certain things in my shows. Fortunately, I am able to easily avoid such shows because they are niche and they are categorized as such. These shows are not for everyone. To use an admittedly extreme analogy, hentai is its own genre. I'll be damned if I have to watch a tentacle sex scene in a "mainstream" magical girl. It's easy to say "if you don't like it, don't watch it." But if a show wants to be mainstream and if the mainstream audience doesn't watch it, what has been accomplished? Last edited by Pantha on Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:39 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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