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Anime Expo 2008 - Industry roundtable: Fansubs - The Death of Anime?

In this day in age some people get rewarded for being bad I mean look at crunchyroll gettin 4 mill despite its an illegal site

After several hours/days of reading I finally read all 17 pages of rants. Lots of distractions in between though..

Anyways what disgusts me is the people acting as if they are better than everyone else because they don't watch fansubbed stuff. You have people asking if it's good or bad and whats worse is you have people actually telling them that they are good/bad!

It's like this is 16th centurary and you are the inqusition condeming people to hell because they watched a few fansubs without paying!

Whats the difference between between watching a fansub or borrowing the dvd from a friend?

Honestly I don't even know if renting a dvd from a rental place, such as netflix, rentanime, or blockbuster actually helps the anime business,(someone find out please with facts and papers I can read for myself) and if it does, it sure doesnt help as much as actually buying them. So everyone who feels proud because they either rented them or borrowed from a friend should feel just as bad!

Another thing I wanted to point out, whats the difference between fansubbers and library's. People rent books from librarys and any money the library gets sure doesn't go to the original writer. Dvd's and books are not really that much different entertainment wise. Just because you enjoyed a book from a library, I actually know a library here where you can rent anime and manga(awesome huh?). Pasadena Public Library for those living in southern california. That's for free btw! So why arent you angry at them?
Pasadena city library anime

The problem with fansubbers is that they fansub the dvd rips right? While thats true, someone intially buys those dvds, same is true with your friends and with library's. There is no one site which you could download dvd rips from for free, it's a great many fan subbing groups. So either be mad at everyone who rents dvds or be mad at no one.

Also the fansubs on shows not yet out yet on dvd is also not a problem. That should never be a problem. Those once shown on public tv and just because someone is taking their time to show them to the rest of the world does not make it criminal.

What the real problem here is advertizing. Anime doesn't have that much big of a following. So I say let fansubbers stay, because right now anime is still spreading on word of mouth. And it's doing quite well for spreading on only word of mouth. Fansubbers is a key aspect to your advertizing and without them, then I'm 100% sure anime would be dead.

You call fansubbers a curse? I call them a blessing.

Ok my anime club (which i also go to) is currently halfway thru gurenn lagann are we breaking the law?? I think its licensed now

soryy bout all these questions just want a better understanding.

It's like this is 16th centurary and you are the inqusition condeming people to hell because they watched a few fansubs without paying!

Whats the difference between between watching a fansub or borrowing the dvd from a friend?

Honestly I don't even know if renting a dvd from a rental place, such as netflix, rentanime, or blockbuster actually helps the anime business

Another thing I wanted to point out, whats the difference between fansubbers and library's. People rent books from librarys and any money the library gets sure doesn't go to the original writer.

Kireek wrote:

Ok my anime club (which i also go to) is currently halfway thru gurenn lagann are we breaking the law?? I think its licensed now soryy bout all these questions just want a better understanding.

You all ways were braking the law even if the title is not licensed in the US the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works makes all Japanese copyrights valid in the US and vise versa.

jsieczka wrote:

Kireek wrote: Ok my anime club (which i also go to) is currently halfway thru gurenn lagann are we breaking the law?? I think its licensed now soryy bout all these questions just want a better understanding. You all ways were braking the law even if the title is not licensed in the US the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works makes all Japanese copyrights valid in the US and vise versa.

If you're going to spout lies and fallacies, at least try to use good grammer and spelling.

Now, with all due respect, you're full of crap. The only way they'd be breaking the law is if the fansubs their using are in fact DVD rips. However, all fansubs I know of are TV broadcasts. In no way is it illegal to watch a broadcast of a foreign show, whether live or taped. That what separates us from the third-world.

Consider your ideas debunked.

GaryPotter wrote:

jsieczka wrote: Kireek wrote: Ok my anime club (which i also go to) is currently halfway thru gurenn lagann are we breaking the law?? I think its licensed now soryy bout all these questions just want a better understanding. You all ways were braking the law even if the title is not licensed in the US the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works makes all Japanese copyrights valid in the US and vise versa. If you're going to spout lies and fallacies, at least try to use good grammer and spelling. Now, with all due respect, you're full of crap. The only way they'd be breaking the law is if the fansubs their using are in fact DVD rips. However, all fansubs I know of are TV broadcasts. In no way is it illegal to watch a broadcast of a foreign show, whether live or taped. That what separates us from the third-world. Consider your ideas debunked.

Try again read 17 U.S.C. § 106(3), 17 U.S.C. § 110(1),17 U.S.C. § 108, and mostly 17 U.S.C. §§ 601-603 of the UCC here is the last passage:
importation into the United States, without the authority of the owner of copyright under this title, of copies or phonorecords of a work that have been acquired outside the United States is an infringement of the exclusive right to distribute copies or phonorecords under section 106, actionable under section 501,” 17 U.S.C. § 602(a).
Under the private use provision permits reproduction for personal, family, quotations (including pictorial quotations), and translations for certain classes of works this last one requires a professor to be present and leading an educational discussion.
For more information reed the UCC or at least read http://ocw.mit.edu/NR/rdonlyres/Electrical-Engineering-and-Computer-Science/6-805Fall-2005/F9D805F8-1233-4A02-BF4F-4BFA5C9FBFA5/0/prog_against_law.pdf it is a law students paper on fansubing.

jsieczka wrote:

Kireek wrote: Ok my anime club (which i also go to) is currently halfway thru gurenn lagann are we breaking the law?? I think its licensed now soryy bout all these questions just want a better understanding. You all ways were braking the law even if the title is not licensed in the US the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works makes all Japanese copyrights valid in the US and vise versa.

If you're going to spout lies and fallacies, at least try to use good grammer and spelling.

Now, with all due respect, you're full of crap. The only way they'd be breaking the law is if the fansubs their using are in fact DVD rips. However, all fansubs I know of are TV broadcasts. In no way is it illegal to watch a broadcast of a foreign show, whether live or taped. That what separates us from the third-world.

Consider your ideas debunked.

different2 wrote:

Whats the difference between between watching a fansub or borrowing the dvd from a friend?

If you don't know the obvious answer to this by now you either have everything given to you, or are too young to understand the work ethic, or both. Especially if you're "disgusted" that some people refuse to break the law.

Yes, because reminding people that they have an ethical obligation to source anime legally is exactly the same as burning people to death for heresy. Rolling Eyes

You don't understand how one person paying for something and sharing it with a handful of friends is different from one person possibly paying for something and sharing it with millions of anonymous strangers?

Nice c&p job there. However, no one is importing anything.

tygerchickchibi wrote:

...WTF?!?

Honestly what purpose does this phrase serve?

You're whining about people who actually contribute don't do enough, and then say that we have to do more to compensate for the lazy f*cks out there who don't want to pay for it? Are you friggin kidding me??!

When was I "whining"? If you care about something a lot, then you will do what is necessary to support it, regardless of what others are or are not doing. And yes, if that means "compensating" then you'll do that as well. I'm sorry but you are naive if you think prosecution or attorneys are going to win the day for media companies. That will lose more money than it will ever gain. If you want to support a cause support it, and stop trying to figure out ways to force other people.

If you want to convince other people, I have no problems with that. But you will fail otherwise.

I never said, not even once, that I thought that other people should be doing nothing. I said everyone should be doing more. To support something less than you value it is foolish. Nothing can continue if even those who care about it decide to do nothing.

-
But seriously...$2.00 is NOT expensive at all. Music is sold for $1.99 a song and it only lasts for what, 5 minutes? A $1.99 episode isn't expensive, and there ARE ways to pay without actually owning a credit card.

If I were to do that I'd probably just let them have their own account and put my credit card on it, and for savvy parents that's probably ok. But they also have to care about buying stuff like this and generally people are going to watch a lot more than what they can afford. It's very unlikely the kids I'm talking about are only watching 1 series (26 for 13 ep or 52 for 26 ep). If it's 2 or 3 series, it gets expensive pretty fast.

I buy DVDs, and while I like digital (I encode all of my DVDs and put them on a hard drive), I wouldn't want the downloadables for multiple reasons. In theory I think the download per episode could work for me, but it's "theory" because they don't make dual audio encodes, and their quality is less with a higher bitrate than I can do myself.

I am not saying pay per download is bad, just that it's not good for what I think most are looking for. Think of it this way. Why do so many more people buy American TV than anime? The answer is simple. So many more people have seen the shows, and so many more are interested.

Anime can't even get the interest of most people to do the initial viewing, much less purchase. The problem is not that the initial viewing is free for some, the problem is that there is little interest*. That's why those who care have to do more than they are doing. I think monetizing initial viewing with subscriptions is a fine idea, but you can't expect to ever get everyone.

(*I'm talking about relative interest among a group who has a lot of money. I'm not saying anime's niche audience isn't significant).

And no, just no on renting DVDs. I've looked, and they are all anime that are either old, or do not interest me at all.

My feelings toward your post. That should've been quite obvious.

1) I think you are taking the comments about paying more personally, as if I'm saying you personally should pay more, when I didn't say that
2) You talk about the damage caused by 10000+ not paying compared to the one paying more.. but this isn't accurate. 10000+ per person who doesn't pay is not even close to a valid ratio. Even if there are that many downloaders per paying person, there is no way you can argue that that many people would even be willing to pay if they had to.

My feelings toward your post. That should've been quite obvious.