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NEWS: Evangelion brings man to kill mother


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Syker 07



Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 149
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 4:14 pm Reply with quote
GATSU, we know you hate Evangelion, leave it at that.

Let's not turn this discussion into thread about why some of us hate the show and some of us don't. Let's also not make it a personal attack on Anno. After all, he was only expressing himself. If you don't like how he did it, that's your right. Some of us do like it, that's our right.

The point is, is that the prosecution of this case is singling out an anime as the major influence of a man murdering his mother, with an apparent intent to murder further people after the fact.
While this may seem stupid to us, you can assume that the court is going to look into that allegation and try and determine if something like Evangelion should be allowed to be seen by the public for fear of causing mental instability. Surely the guy had some problems to begin with (I'm 22, have seen Evangelion several times through and have never entertained the idea of killing someone because mankind is ruinous.)

Whether or not you like Evangelion, if the prosecutions strategy works...that could be very bad for the fandom. I can see this going the same way as the short uprising against video games. Likely, nothing will come of it, but there's always a possibility. An upsurge in negative media, while it may not put a dent in the anime industry in Japan, could have a much bigger impact here in the States and other countries. I can already see Lieberman or another like-minded politician speaking out against the unwholesome scourge of "Japanimation". And I could almost guarantee that once the "Soccer Moms" catch wind of this, you'll be seeing an uprising of anime detractors, organisations, boycots and protests. And while I'm a christian, I don't even want to think about the implications within the religious circles, especially seeing as Evangelion is the apparent culprit. If nothing else, we may see a wave of much unwanted censorship to our hobby, and no matter how you like Evangelion, I don't think that's something any of us want.

It will probably just blow over in a few months, but then again, maybe it won't. We won't know till it happens.

This, however, is all just my rather uninformed view on the matter. YMMV.

[/soapbox]

Syker Seven.
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radicaledward



Joined: 02 Mar 2003
Posts: 776
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 4:19 pm Reply with quote
I don't think that is the prosecution's intent, but with out more information it is hard to tell what the whole story is. Perhaps someone has come across another artical about this case?
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Tempest
I Run this place.
ANN Publisher


Joined: 29 Dec 2001
Posts: 10426
Location: Do not message me for support.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 4:21 pm Reply with quote
radicaledward wrote:
prosectution is repeating this a part of their case against the individual.


Nope, those were opening statements.

A good prosecutor will try to bring up all the points that the deffence may make and invalidate them before the deffence even mentions them. The deffence will do the same thing.

This is a basic of debating, rebuttals are good, but countering an arguement before it is even made is better.

Now, we haven't been made privy to the entire opening statement, so we don't know what else was said. All we know is that the prosecution claims that the individual was influenced by things he saw and heard in Evangelion. My guess is that this information stems from pre-trial interviews (questioning) that the accused had with police or the prosecution (don't know how the legal system works in Japan).
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Wolf Tooth



Joined: 30 Nov 2003
Posts: 51
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 4:39 pm Reply with quote
Even if he was mentally, really was influenced by the animation, or just plain stupid, it is very sad that he beat his mother to death. Crying or Very sad
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 15340
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 4:40 pm Reply with quote
Yosh:
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You know, just because he got the idea about human kind as a disease from a show does not mean he is mentally ill.


No, but acting on that idea means he's mentally ill.

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This man took that influence to place most of us would not go. That does not mean he is crazy.


You know, you're right. The Crusades and the Inquisition weren't crazy either.

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Just becaus he killed his mother also does not make him automatically crazy. He might have carefully planned and executed this action with forethought and knowledge of consequences.


First of all, beating someone up with a baseball bat and getting caught doesn't exactly show any planning. Secondly, Mark David Chapman planned his killing in advance too.

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Ted Kazinski (Unabomber) was a college professor but still decided to send letter bombs to businesses because he believed that corporations were to be the down fall of society. A smart guy who used a different form of logic that made killing people okay.


If he's so smart, then why did he get caught? And whether you hate capitalist pigs or Arabs/Muslims, killing either group is not ok.

Syker:
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Let's also not make it a personal attack on Anno. After all, he was only expressing himself.


Doesn't mean he shouldn't take responsibility for it.

Quote:
The point is, is that the prosecution of this case is singling out an anime as the major influence of a man murdering his mother...While this may seem stupid to us, you can assume that the court is going to look into that allegation and try and determine if something like Evangelion should be allowed to be seen by the public for fear of causing mental instability.


You mean the legislators. The court can't really decide who watches anything.

Quote:
Whether or not you like Evangelion, if the prosecutions strategy works...that could be very bad for the fandom. I can see this going the same way as the short uprising against video games.


Actually, that kind of thing has happened time and again in Japan. (Miyazaki, anyone?)

Quote:
An upsurge in negative media, while it may not put a dent in the anime industry in Japan, could have a much bigger impact here in the States and other countries. I can already see Lieberman or another like-minded politician speaking out against the unwholesome scourge of "Japanimation".


Funny that you worry about that crap now, but when I complain about it being in Kill Bill, you look the other way.

Quote:
And I could almost guarantee that once the "Soccer Moms" catch wind of this, you'll be seeing an uprising of anime detractors, organisations, boycots and protests. And while I'm a christian, I don't even want to think about the implications within the religious circles, especially seeing as Evangelion is the apparent culprit.


Pokemon survived. So will Evangelion.

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If nothing else, we may see a wave of much unwanted censorship to our hobby, and no matter how you like Evangelion, I don't think that's something any of us want.


Been there, done that. Don't care anymore, when 12 year old
girls getting[edited - no swearing, that includes swearwords with letters *'s out -t]is the only thing you otaku care about. Maybe if it did happen, people would actually appreciate the genre instead of destroying it with that gratuitous filth.

Wolf:
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Even if he was mentally, really was influenced by the animation, or just plain stupid, it is very sad that he beat his mother to death.


Finally, a human being on here!

little:
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Really Gatsu, not everyone thinks with a penis.


The scary part is I'm not sure the guys who take that scene seriously think with one either. At least if they did, then I could consider it a fetish and leave it at that.

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First off, when has Anno stated that Eva is an example of his of what he thinks is right from wrong?


Well if it's supposed to be an allusion to his psychological problems and how he overcame them, then his solution to his problem was killing off everyone else. But I guess since Anno doesn't have a moustache or an arm patch with a swastika, it's easier to defend him.

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Eva is, in my interpretation, one hell of a ride through the human psyche. It's not meant to be a guide, it was meant to be a form of entertainment that got you thinking about issues of what being human is


And apparently being "human" means digressing to a more primal state which involves natural selection in the form of violence.

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I believe one of the main issues throughout Eva was what was right from wrong, and that in certain situations, this is never clear. Eva just showed that deep down, instinct has different rules for this, and that anything goes.


And if your instinct is to masturbate on a girl in a coma, then so be it.

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The story was mainly about people fighting god,


Fighting God, or playing God?

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Technically, the "right thing to do" in Eva would of been for them all to just sit down and face God's judgment. Is just accepting the end really right?


Better than running away from it like a coward.

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Like Mentioned with Battle Royale, people in desperate situations result to desperate measures.


The kids in Battle Royale weren't desperate: just misguided and oblivious of the world around them.

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The rules of society are gone, and Dawin's "survival of the fittest" kick in. In some cases, it's killed or be killed.


Well technically, the rules of Battle Royale were created by society.

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Yeah Shinji flipped out that one time and began strangling Asuka, but really, it's not like Anno flashed in big bright letters that "This is right! Go strangle people that piss you off!"


He might as well have.

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All the characters obviously had mental problems, and if you're going to base what's right and wrong off them, you need to see a psychiatrist.


There's a difference between having psychological problems and just being an a-hole.

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These were people pushed to their limits with the fate of mankind on their shoulders. In that situation, who really has the right to say what is right and what is wrong?


Obviously Anno.

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That there is called sterotyping, and I consider my self an Evangelion fan, and I can assure you I have no feelings whatsoever to go bomb abortion clinics.


I was joking.

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It's not like every Eva fan thinks of Evangelion as a religion to follow. I'm sure many people on this board can explain that to you.


Just the ones who overhyped the hell out of it until it lost steam when everyone else realized how stupid the series was.

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And Anno doesn't have an excuse? He doesn't have an excuse for what? Expressing himself? Please.


No, he doesn't have an excuse for intentionally creating media which might have an adverse affect on impressionable youth. If he expects to use the public airwaves to promote his nihilistic agenda, then he should expect some sort of backlash.

Quote:
I'm wondering now that if this gets out to the US around the time the movie comes out, and if ADV was planning a nationwide theater release, well then parents may be boycotting the movie.


The movie will probably go straight to home video before it ever hits theaters.

Quote:
I personally don't believe that a person can blame something like a tv show for this kind of action. Like people have pointed out, Columbine. People afterwards tried to start blaming things such as Marlin Manson since that's what the kids listened too.


Marilyn Manson just taught kids how to dress up like Goths. Evangelion taught kids how to be whiny bastards.


Last edited by GATSU on Tue Dec 02, 2003 4:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mou Kaoru



Joined: 17 Oct 2003
Posts: 298
Location: Simple minds are easily amused.
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 4:45 pm Reply with quote
Confused Arrgh. Stories like these tick me off. There's no proof that what he did was due to watching Eva. It's a stupid excuse, I think.
Or maybe the guy took things way too seriously??
*shrugs* Ah well...I watched Eva plenty of times and I'm just fine.
Shocked
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Jkid



Joined: 24 May 2003
Posts: 197
Location: Capitol Heights ,MD
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:21 pm Reply with quote
We already have enought scrapegoating for video games and other kinds of media. If they go after Manga and anime, TV executives WILL have a feild day planning reality TV crap for us.
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Wolf Tooth



Joined: 30 Nov 2003
Posts: 51
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:24 pm Reply with quote
Zeiram wrote:


No matter how artificial we are, no matter how hopeless we are, no matter how godforsaken this land is, no matter how hellish our lives are, live, for heaven's sake live



And lets not forget the one leper, Osa, from Mononoke Hime-
'The world is cursed, but still we find reasons to keep on living.'

But lets not think that we, Man Kind, is evil and distructive. Should we have our ups and downs (like cloning, and nucliar wepons), but please, for our sake, remember the beauty of life and how wonderful it is.
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Wolf Tooth



Joined: 30 Nov 2003
Posts: 51
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:32 pm Reply with quote
Wops!
It's shoure we have our ups and downs (like cloning, and nucliar wepons), but please, for our sake, remember the beauty of life and how wonderful it is.
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Proman



Joined: 19 Nov 2003
Posts: 947
Location: USA
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:45 pm Reply with quote
Yeah, good point. I do not know for sure if this guy is mentally sane and if he is he should be punished for his crimes. The creators of the show are not responsible for how someone interprets their work (as long as there are no subliminal messages). It's like that guy who blamed the Beatles song "Helter Skelter" for "inspiring" him to commit a crime. For all we know he could've gotten the same message by listening to "Mary had a little lamb".
That's what freinds are for. If you are having a tough time and start thinking some crazy thoughts you should go talk to your freinds about or seek professional help.

P.S. I really believe that there are far deeper reasons for why this kid killed his mom that have nothing to do with Anime. There was obviolusly something wrong in their relatinship.
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 15340
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 6:06 pm Reply with quote
FYI, it was Charles Manson who blamed that song on his killings. (Ironically, most people thought another song on the album-Revolution #9-would be dangerous.) Anyway, while you can't be responsible for what people do, I do believe it's your responsibility to make people aware of the material you're exposing them to, not to mention making yourself aware of the material you're showing them.
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rektagunn



Joined: 04 Oct 2003
Posts: 218
Location: enohana
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 6:28 pm Reply with quote
GATSU wrote:
FYI, it was Charles Manson who blamed that song on his killings. (Ironically, most people thought another song on the album-Revolution #9-would be dangerous.) Anyway, while you can't be responsible for what people do, I do believe it's your responsibility to make people aware of the material you're exposing them to, not to mention making yourself aware of the material you're showing them.


and what, pray tell, should Anno be telling people regarding their exposure to EVA??.....y'know, aside from your view that it encourages li'l kids to be whiny li'l bastards......

I don't think one man's insane acts automatically imposes a responsibility on a director to cover every possible adverse effect one could get from watching the show (especially in light of the unpredictability of certain, "eccentric" people)...it eventually leads to a "slippery slope" argument........

....especially with a show that is as vague / indirect / broad as EVA....I mean, the NWA songs have a stronger argument than EVA.............
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The Ramblin' Wreck



Joined: 07 Apr 2003
Posts: 924
Location: Teaching Robot Women How To Love
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 6:31 pm Reply with quote
Okay, GATSU. We get it. You don't like Evangelion, you hate Anno and you really don't like Christianity.

Fine, give it a rest already.
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Zeiram



Joined: 02 Dec 2003
Posts: 317
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 6:34 pm Reply with quote
well then, i'll repeat myself for those who didn't rea dmy msg

video games, tv and everything on it do cause people to kill

but only cause of the environment people are in to begin with.

I loved evangelion because it was a head trip, the ending had nothing to do with killing off everyone. It was only that making choices to fix your life is really hard and once you do it is not with out reprecussions

you interpret it as such, gatsu, so you see it as bad. Seems to me there's some evironment issues you need to deal with first, nevermind arguing over whther this is that or whatever ya arguing about.
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v1cious



Joined: 31 Dec 2002
Posts: 6203
Location: Houston, TX
PostPosted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 7:52 pm Reply with quote
next week a little girl will claim Arjuna made her kill a fast food vendor Wink


on another note: whatever happened with the "cat's Eye Bandits" case?
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