Forum - View topicNEWS: Newspaper: Funimation Sales Down More Than Half Since 2004
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SgtMustang
Posts: 158 |
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Comcast should but them and give them a channel
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FaytLein
 Posts: 1260 Location: Williamsburg, VA |
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Since the hoary specter of piracy has already been mentioned, I'm going to wade into it and make one statement and head off the circlejerk that is a piracy debate.
"Has piracy negatively impacted the R1 market?" I don't have sales figures, but I believe if you apply common sense to that statement, you'll find the answer is a rather obvious yes. Piracy does absolutely nothing to help anime at all, aside from allowing the entrenched fanbase to consume with impunity. A market thrives when there is abundant demand for it, however with rapid fansubbing/ripping of R1 subs, thrown on the internet to compete with legit business, legit business will always fail since you can't trump a free, unlimited supply of product. That being said, did piracy destroy Geneon, cripple ADV and drive most of the small time companies out of business SOLELY because piracy exists? Of course not. Piracy doesn't directly take sales from legit business, but makes an attempt to reap profit to stay afloat nearly impossible. Piracy is akin to an unclosed wound, letting companies bleed out as the free competitors are able to create a product superior to what companies make. License an anime, odds are the bulk of the entrenched fanbase will consume it, move on, and if you are really lucky, a handful of dedicated fans will shell out the bucks for the discs. All that cost you sank into making a product, and you might sell enough discs to break even. Which is fine in a limited fashion, but you need to generate a profit, which thanks to the limited funds of the average anime fan (teenagers) and the ominous prevalence of online material for free, the battle to survive for anime is much more difficult than movies, videogames and even the music industry. Those business have a much, much larger paying base than anime probably ever will, so the effects of piracy are mitigated somewhat. Also, since enough money is still coming in, those companies can afford to shift enough prescence online to offer low enough rates to appeal to casual pirates. Anime is in a completely different boat altogether, since the base is that much smaller, and with flagging sales, such moves becomes even more difficult to accomplish, not to mention that the Japanese market would be utterly destroyed by such a move, just to appeal to overseas fans. A lot has been and will continue to be said about how the Japanese are unwilling to adapt to the online world in regards to anime and manga. Now if I can invoke commone sense once again, look at it from the perspective of Japanese creators. Of course, their situation is rather reversed compared to ours, as for them DVD sales are regarded seondarily to merchandising. But DVD sales are a very important source of revenue for both sides, and as anyone can tell you, Japanese prices are steeeep. Now, consider the following. You are a Japanese exec, trying to generate money from DVD sales. The US companies come in, and try to sell online distribution to you. Putting aside the labrinthine rights discussions that would go into it, would you allow a foreign business to create something that directly affects your bottom line? Especially an industry, as this article shows, is NOT in the best of health? Would you go after the ever elusive internet dollar to sate overseas fans at the cost of your own? I think that is all that needs to be said about that. |
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Eri94
 Posts: 220 |
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RedSwirl
 Posts: 344 |
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I can tell you this much: since 2005 I've probably bought around four new anime titles on DVD. I've already seen more than that many titles in the first half of 2011 that I plan to buy, so I guess that's a good thing.
Mind you most of them are old properties that FUNimation rescued and/or is now releasing for the first time on Blu-Ray, but dollars is dollars. |
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Destinyblade
Posts: 17 |
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People can blame piracy all they want, but I think it's really simple why the R1 market has declined: a lack of TV deals and mainstream titles.
Back in the 2003-2004 years, Toonami and Adult Swim were the main gateways to getting anime some exposure on TV. And they were both going well or at least decently to continue it for a while. But now the R1 market doesn't have that main gateway that they used to: Toonami is gone and Adult Swim has regulated anime to Saturdays only. Cartoon Network has had a major change in staff from those days, and along with that, new ideas. Now both CN and Adult Swim are focusing on making shows in-house so that they can make money from their own titles. On top of that, they're doing all they can to become more like Nick and Disney. (Personally, I think it's a shame since the old Cartoon Network provided some diversity from the other cartoon channels, but oh well.) Can anime still get on TV? Sure it can. Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh, Naruto... they're still on. But because there's no popular block like Toonami anymore, titles that could get on TV but are less mainstream will no longer get the exposure they need. And even though CN has decided to stay away from relying more on anime, it's not like the titles themselves didn't contribute to the decline either. Back in 2003-2004, DBZ was still running, and that remains the biggest cash cow that isn't named Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh!, etc. There simply isn't another title from Japan at the moment that can match DBZ's success here in America. Even though One Piece is wildly popular in Japan, it doesn't compare to Dragon Ball in the US. FUNimation and ADV can prop up their FUNimation Channel and Anime Network all they want. But for the industry to get back to the way it was in 2004, the R1 companies really need something like another Toonami. Not a channel that's 24/7 anime, but one that can appeal to kids and teens. And while that's happening, show anime at a time where those younger viewers are likely to watch it (after school, just like Toonami did). Unfortunately, this most likely will never happen. |
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GATSU
Posts: 15357 |
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Deviant:
Um, the fansubbers were barely there in the 80s, and the only anime which had any impact out of that scene in the 90s were DBZ and Kenshin. Just: They apparently "suck" bad enough to out-live their prior company. Kit: Actually, the Summer Wars thing was good for them, because it got them mentioned in trades where they normally wouldn't get exposure, which I presume was the real point of the campaign. V: Geneon also didn't have its own toy and video game line for properties which it didn't necessarily own or handle in the U.S. Anyway, my opinion on the decline of sales is: 1) The economy still blows, natch. 2) A significant chunk of people who grew up on anime moved on to other things, partly because it was a fad for them, not a "lifestyle". Which brings me to: 2a) Marketing to older audiences properties which would only be considered appealing to pre-teens and up here. I mean, I just read an ANN article where friggin' 20-somethings in Japan still read Naruto and One Piece, while one of the female viewers there on my Twitter said she was excited to catch the Gantz movie, because of the actors attached to it. I know Zac bitched about it being toned down from the source material, but let's be honest here. The same could be said for the Milla Resident Evil movies, and they make decent and consistent bank, which also seems to be happening with the Gantz movie there. Hell, until CTHD and X-Men, MA and comic book movies used to be considered the domain of male geeks. Meanwhile, Twilight's basically cashing in on the same market which would've watched Sailor Moon back in the day, plus older women. So I think the problem is that companies aren't maximizing the potential of these properties by reaching out to demos they'd normally ignore or not consider. Also, perhaps some effort is needed to be made to simplify the concepts behind these series in a way which has wider appeal? No, I don't mean dumbing them down, DB:E-style. I'm talking about selling them beyond their self-contained audiences and universes, and in a way which seems "trendy", maybe? |
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ManuOtaku
Posts: 6 |
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I just hope this doenst mean we are not going to get this year the hellsing ultimate ovas number V,VI,VII, i had waited for so long in order to get this ovas , god please help funimation, and all the other minor companies too (section 23, nis, nozomi, bandai,etc), for that matter.
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PmChivas
 Posts: 53 Location: Dallas, TX |
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Indeed. I've been waiting for Monochrome Factor to come out for a long time. When I heard it was acquired I quit watching the fansubs and waited for a release. Finally, after almost a year and no word from Funimation, I went back and watched the fansubs. I would still like to own the show on DVD though. |
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HyugaHinata
 Posts: 3505 |
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Well, at least several companies seem to feel that Funi's viable.
 i just hope they stick to under 15-20 titles a year (including re-releases).
They should concentrate on selling X quantity of the shows they have out there now before releasing more (save the big-name, built-in audience titles like Eva and Summer wars).
Last edited by HyugaHinata on Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:41 am; edited 1 time in total |
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BlackJaded
 Posts: 332 |
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What about Sunrise possibility Bandai will go down sooner or later. That could be big step for them to release world wide |
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Mr. sickVisionz
 Posts: 2173 |
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I see a few people mentioning that the lack of TV exposure hurts anime. I agree with but I'd point the finger at piracy.
It's incredibly difficult to air an anime once a week and have people stick around. The second they ever get interested enough in a series to do a Google search about it, one of the top 5 results will be something like, "stream the entire series for free." If you're really into the series, that's going to be a huge temptation. That's one major knock that anime on TV will always suffer from. If someone ever becomes interested enough to look something up on the internet, even if they just want a message board to talk with others about the series, they're going to be bombarded with sites that negate the need to continue watching the series on TV. For anything else on TV, becoming a fan usually helps a TV broadcast but with anime it means probably won't watch the broadcast anymore, which drops the ratings, which means advertisers won't be willing to spend as much on those time slots, which makes a network think not only are we not getting as much money as we could, it seems like people don't even want to watch this stuff. That's a tough sell to any network. I don't think it's a coincidence that the bubble bursting and anime leaving TV at non-Japanese times (ie midnight and later) happened around the same time active user broadband penetration rates neared 70% [http://www.zdnet.com/blog/itfacts/us-broadband-penetration-number-2003-2006/10400], torrents became a more widely known and used method of distributing data over the internet, and sites like megaupload made it easy for anyone to store large files online. Once it got ridiculously easy to pirate and took 1-2 hours to download an episode rather than 2-3 days, the industry's roof caved in. Funi's profits dropping sucks for them but the fact they and others in the US anime game seem to be profitable is pretty shocking considering how anything they sell is pirated hours after release and anything the license is given away for free months if not years before they release it, and often at a quality level equal to or greater than DVD. |
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NJ_
 Posts: 3028 Location: Wallington, NJ |
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FUNimation never licensed Monochrome Factor, they only pulled fansubbed episodes on behalf of the Japanese. animenewsnetwork.com/news/2008-08-11/3-titles-fansubs-pulled-on-behalf-of-japan-d-rights |
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PmChivas
Posts: 53 Location: Dallas, TX |
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I remember that, but for a brief time they had it listed on their site as a forthcoming show. They even teased some of who asked with their "wait and see" response. Moreover, they went ahead and licensed and released a few of those titles whom they were only looking out for the Japanese creator's behalf. So, it wasn't too hard to believe they got the rights to MF and just didn't release it. |
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SonicRenegade84
 Posts: 630 Location: Atlantis! |
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This isn't too hard to believe. Anime sales have been going down for a while now, and if things don't start changing, anime will be gone from the states before we know it. That's why i'm stocking up on anime titles so when Armageddon comes, i'll be set.
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RobZob
Posts: 2 |
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We just gotta hope that Navarre doesn't put FUNi into limbo, which would be the worst case scenario. I don't think that would happen, but it's possible if they don't recieve the offer they want.
Someone...an Arts, Animation or Anime Culture 'guru' type company or private buyer needs to purchase FUNi and rescue it. That wouldn't solve everything as we need to purchase more product. This reminds me of the 90's comic-book fall, when Marvel filed for bankruptcy. Even though they bounced back, they really had to rethink how they distributed their products, target more buyers and evolve in the business. Anime needs to come up with a plan to get more of us interested in buying their products. It's not as simple as just lowering the prices. It's time they dig deep and save what they love doing. I think they'll survive this. There are too many people that want it to span out and grow even more diverse. |
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