Forum - View topicINTEREST: Hayao Miyazaki Appointed As Joint Leader of Fund Opposing Relocation of Okinawan Military
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Polycell
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Ohoni
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Again, where we can, but genocides can happen before it would be possible to mobilize our forces into the area, or in some cases our intervention might make things even worse for both sides, or it might just be too dangerous to risk US forces and we would lose too many of our own to justify it. Again, the US is neither omniscient nor omnipotentm we're more Spider-Man than Superman, we can do a lot of good, but we can't always know everything about every situation, or automatically bring about the best possible outcome, and have to be careful to try not to make things worse (at which, being fallible, we don't always succeed). |
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Draft/Matic
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1954 Guatemala - The CIA overthrows the democratically elected Jacob Arbenz in a military coup. Arbenz is replaced with a series of facist dictators whose bloodthirsty policies will kill over 100,000 Guatemalans in the next 40 years. Non of them are democratically elected. 1959 Haiti- The U.S. military helps "Papa Doc" Duvalier become dictator of Haiti. Not democratically elected 1961 Ecuador - The CIA-backed military forces the democratically elected President Jose Velasco to resign. Vice President Carlos Arosemana replaces him; the CIA fills the now vacant vice presidency with its own man. (who is a rightwing nut and is not democratically elected) 1963 Dominican Republic - The CIA overthrows the democratically elected Juan Bosch in a military coup. The CIA installs a repressive, right-wing junta. (not democratically elected) 1963 Ecuador - A CIA-backed military coup overthrows President Arosemana, whose independent (not socialist) policies have become unacceptable to Washington. A military junta assumes command. (not democratically elected) 1964 Brazil - A CIA-backed military coup overthrows the democratically elected government of Joao Goulart. Puts a millitary junta in power (Not democratically elected) and later it is revealed that the CIA trains the death squads of General Castelo Branco (who is one of the facist dictators US puts in power). 1965 Dominican Republic- A popular rebellion breaks out, promising to reinstall Juan Bosch as the country's elected leader. The revolution is crushed when U.S. Marines land to uphold the military regime by force. The CIA directs everything behind the scenes. Openly protect facist dictator that they had put in power AGAINST the wishes of the people. 1971 Bolivia - After half a decade of CIA-inspired political turmoil, a CIA-backed military coup overthrows the leftist President Juan Torres. In the next two years, dictator Hugo Banzer will have over 2,000 political opponents arrested without trial, then tortured, raped and executed. (The dictator is not democratically elected either) 1973 Chile - The CIA overthrows and assassinates Salvador Allende, Latin America's first democratically elected socialist leader. The CIA replaces Allende with General Augusto Pinochet, who will torture and murder thousands of his own countrymen in a crackdown on labor leaders and the political left. (not democratically elected) Between 1973 and 1986 there are many different attempts to put facist dictators in El Salvador, Honduras and Nicaragua. But they mainly fail and just leads to civil war without US getting their facist puppet governments. 1986 Haiti- Rising popular revolt in Haiti means that "Baby Doc" Duvalier will remain "President for Life" only if he has a short one. The U.S., which hates instability in a puppet country, flies the despotic Duvalier to the South of France for a comfortable retirement. The CIA then rigs the upcoming elections in favor of another right-wing military strongman. However, violence keeps the country in political turmoil for another four years. The CIA tries to strengthen the military by creating the National Intelligence Service (SIN), which suppresses popular revolt through torture and assassination. (this does not happen by popular demand or democratic elections) 1989 Panama - The U.S. invades Panama to overthrow a dictator of its own making, General Manuel Noriega. Noriega has been on the CIA's payroll since 1966, and has been transporting drugs with the CIA's knowledge since 1972. By the late 80s, Noriega's growing independence and intransigence have angered Washington ... so out he goes. (Noriega was not democratically elected and his removal was not done by democratic means either, just US being US) 1990 Haiti - Competing against 10 comparatively wealthy candidates, leftist priest Jean-Bertrand Aristide captures 68 percent of the vote. After only eight months in power, however, the CIA-backed military deposes him and put facist dictators to rule Haiti. (not democratically elected) 2002 Venezuela - The CIA attempts to overthrow the democratically elected government of Venezuela. America attempted to put Millitary dictators in power, however, the coup soon unravels when thousands of anti-coup protesters surround the presidential palace demanding Hugo Chavez's reinstatement. And this is ONLY what the CIA admits to. They probably have done a lot worse things than that. Most dictators in the world are in power because America. Africa and Asia is full of brutal dictators that are in power because America gave them guns and help. And MAAANY civil wars have started because America removed democratically elected leaders and wantet to put their millitary dictators in power. The civil war of liberia is an example. Many thanks to "illegalmorality" for compiling this list. |
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Ohoni
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Yes, "I believe we've wielded that responsibility as well as anyone could possibly expect of us. "
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Draft/Matic
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Here in the U.S. we just love praising democracy don't we? To call someone a "communist" is a rather hurtful insult here, yet why is it that when we encroach upon other's democracy no one seems to care? Read through the list and figure out for yourself- America loves keeping "democracy" to itself, but when it comes to encroaching upon other countries right to self-rule it's all fair game. Now back to your original point.
Would it be wrong for me to expect "the leader of the free world" to respect other's self governance? Would it be wrong for me to expect America to not topple one countries leader all because they do something America doesn't like? You said :
You think the U.S. doesn't already do all of these things you've mentioned?(and more) Have you already forgotten about the annexation of Hawaii? Or how about the banana republics America exploited? Have you ever truly considered why America invaded Iraq? The things America have done in the last 100 or so years makes china's past 100 years look like a total failure (and in a way, they were). It's like one thief telling another thief that stealing is bad. Yes, stealing is bad, but it doesn't mean much coming from a fellow thief. So when you say:
Exactly who is this "anyone"? |
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Ohoni
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We like our democracy, sure. And we like it in others, too, so long as their democratically elected governments don't cause trouble for us or our friends. It would be a bit foolish to support ANY democratic government, even if that government were opposed to us. How would that make any sense?
Yes, obviously. Self governance is a responsibility. If a country has shown to use that responsibility unwisely, then it's reasonable for corrective measures to be taken to ensure overall stability.
Oh, we totally do those things. But we're us, and they are them, so it's not cool when they do it. Besides, we haven't annexed anything in like half a century or more, China's doing it right now. So we're talking about what they're doing right now, because it's happening right now.
And that's totally true, but we're not worried about the past hundred years, those have happened already, we're worried about the next hundred years, and what countries might be doing in the future.
Anyone anyone. Like, "any person who is a person." Could we do better in theory? Probably, but any organization consisting of humans has to assume a certain level of dysfunction. Expecting any level of perfection from something as unwieldy as a bi-annually overturned Republic of 300m+ people is just not a reasonable expectation. |
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leafy sea dragon
 Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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The Mongols did get VERY close though, taking over some islands they found and killing a bunch of the inhabitants, but they were driven off both times by freak weather.
And then, of course, there will be plenty of Americans who will fight to the bitter end to prevent additional funding to education and universal healthcare.
I'd imagine some of that pressure is ecological too. I'd bet that part of the reason China is so aggressive about controlling those waters is to give free reign to Chinese fishermen. For the most part, they don't practice any sustainable fishing techniques and are pretty much maritime poachers. It's all about the money for them. |
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Polycell
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