Forum - View topicREVIEW: Evangelion: 3.0+1.0: Thrice Upon A Time
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CoreSignal
 Posts: 727 Location: California, USA |
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What a movie! My quick impressions right now is that it's a great movie, but also long, exhausting, and extremely satisfiying for a long time Eva fan. As someone said earlier, if this is the last Evangelion we get (unlikely) then I'll still be happy. My quick review is that I loved the first third, I liked the middle a lot less, and loved the last third.
The first third with everyone in the post-apocaplytic village was great. I really enjoyed the quieter, slice-of life moments. The middle part was visually specatular but the non-stop lorespeak and technobabble left me mostly confused. I loved the last third.spoiler[Gendo's backstory, taking iconic EoE scenes and giving them a completely different spin]. Finally, what an ending. My issues are that outside of the main trio and Gendo, the rest of the cast basically got little to no development. I was also disappointed that the CG and the fight scenes ranged from great to mediocre. The big problem for me was that the CG looked jerky most of the time. There's many instances where the CG Evas moving around look like something from a early 2000s video game, and not in a good way. Also, I feel the "angels" were too abstract looking, for lack of a better term. It seemed like half the time, they were fighting off geometric shapes. Plus, as mentioned, I never felt the pilots were in much danger compared to the previous movies. Not to mention, I thought spoiler[giant Rei's face] looked really bad, like straight out of a 90s movie. Some people are saying its on purpose, but I'd need proof of that. I'll Definitely will have to give this movie a rewatch soon, maybe check out the English dub as well. Honestly, it's still sinking in that Evangelion is finally over after all these years and that Anno actually pulled it off, imo
You're not alone. Even though the movie is like 2 1/2 hours long, except for maybe the village part, I felt like everything was going a hundred miles an hour. I got the impression that the Eva staff really crammed everything into this move, knowing it would be the last one.
I feel the same. Misato and Ritsuko were really underdeveloped in comparison and had too little screen time. The entire WILLE crew were pretty much cardboard cutouts. I thought Fuyutsuki was barely there, too.
That's my interpretation of the Mari's character spoiler[in the ending ]as well. |
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dm
 Subscriber Posts: 1376 |
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When Asuka was having her "flashback/illusion", who was it spoiler[in the doll costume on the ruined estate?]
Logically, it was Kaji, but it really looked like Kenosuke --- which might explain "Ken-Ken". It made me wonder if 14-year-gap Kenosuke had grown to fill a (more age-appropriate) Kaji-like role for her. |
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AnimeFlyz
Posts: 367 |
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This is by far the worst film in the Rebuild series. I cant believe I wasted 9 years waiting for it.
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jdnation
Posts: 2007 |
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It was spoiler[grown-up Kensuke].
I definately need to watch it again, so I might be off on something, but I'll try... spoiler[At the end of 2.0 Shinji tried to save everyone and rescue Rei, but by synching with his Eva and taking in the Angel, he was pretty much about to begin another Impact. Kowaru stops him in a post-credits scene. So it seems the Impact only goes through some half-stage, and there's some confusion about the set of events that takes place when Shinji goes into a comatose state for 14 years. Seems that it was up to Kaji had risk his life to stop what may have been an attempt by Gendou to begin another Impact, and it seems that Kaji and Kowaru are working together. This somehow resulted in Shinji's and Unit 1 ending up in space, which is where 3.0 begins. Misato and others at NERV split from Gendou and form Wille. Gendou it seems has tossed away his humanity somewhere in the interim, but requires Unit 1 to complete the ritual. Rei's soul is trapped in Unit 1. A new Rei clone shows up in 3.0. Gendou steals back Unit 1 and SHinji goes with the new Rei clone. Gendou also constructs Unit 13, which Shinji and Kowaru pilot in an attempt to retry the ritual again and so that Shinji can fix things, but of course that doesn't work, Kowaru dies, and the events of 3.0+1.0 begin. Misato and Wille are getting ready for their final showdown with Gendou to once and for all stop them from beginning another Impact. Gendou is breaking away from SELEE's script and intends to do his own thing all to be with Yui again. The four ships, one of which Misato stole are needed for the ritual and Gendou was counting on Misato returning, and WILLE are clueless that Gendo lead them into a trap. Essentially, the way the world is remade is that everything is pulled into some anti-matter universe or something, that is opened via the Gate/Sea of Guf where that Adam/Lillim thing is always hanging around. Apparently in Kaballah occultism, this place is believed to be the source of all human souls, which essentially come from the mind of God. So entering in through Guf, is essentially to enter the mind of the creator, which in this case is Hideaki Anno, who created the series and it's why you see all the areas that you do like his studios and also various Eva settings etc. The spears are kind of a key to achieving different things and are shaped by the will of whoever is weilding them. This is why SELEE got mad in the original series when Gendou ordered Rei to kill one of the angels possessing Asuka using the Lance of Longinus. In End of Eva, the lance was pulled back to Earth after orbiting the moon. In the Rebuild movies, the lance is still there and there are also more of them that can be made. Cassius represented hope. And Shinji uses it to fight Gendou. Misato uses the ship to create a new one, whose purpose is to remake the world like the others, but Shinji intends a world without Evas, and the new spear is called 'Neon Genesis.' Essentially, Shinji beats Gendou by showing that he has grown more mature, while it is Gendou who is stuck in an immature state, and who finally relents that he was wrong, leaving Shinji to take charge of Instrumentality. Shinji is about to pierce himself, but it seems that his mother intervenes and takes the burden upon herself to fulfill Shinji's wish and so Shinji himself is jettisoned out of Unit 1 and back out into the new world that is being made. As Shinji is waiting for the end (and the animation starts to break down), Mari shows up to get him just as things (and the animation are beginning to be remade again. In a way, this scene is similar to what Gendou tells Shinji about how he met Yui who brought color into his dreary life. So in that sense, Mari, who was apparently known as Mary Iscariot, a colleague of Gendou, Yui and Fuyutski (and makes a point of meeting Fuyutski before heading off to find Shinji), kind of serves as a new Yui and Shinji is a new Gendou and they reunite at the end just as the original Gendou and Yui pierce the Neon Genesis lance through themselves together to create the new world Shinji wanted and in which they want Shinji to live and be happy. The happiness they didn't get to continue lives on through Shinji and Mari. Rei, Asuka, Kowaru and everyone are given new lives too. But in this world it seems they don't know each other anymore, though Rei and Kowaru seem to be talking. Asuka can also be spotted sitting down on the left. Shinji and Mari are on the other side of the tracks, and this sort of symbolizes Anno finally separating himself from the past and Eva, and the choker is removed from Shinji's neck as the burden of the Evas and the franchise is taken off of him by Mari. Yeah, Mari is the most undeveloped character in this series, though in a way, neither the Reis nor Asuka of the Rebuild films are that developed, and the audience is simply projecting their memories of Asuka and Rei from the original series onto them. But it's important to remember that none of these characters, not even Shinji, are the same ones of the original Eva series. That said, Mari still kind of falls short in terms of who she is, but it's clear that she's the only one there who has no existing baggage. She remains a complete mystery as to how she got to where she is, or whether she's a clone of the original Mary Iscariot, but that might be the case considering she doesn't age like the other pilots. I believe that Asuka does finally age and grow up at the end, as she looks more grown up and her body is bursting out from her suit when Shinji finds her. They confess that they once both had mutual feelings towards each other, but that span of time away from each other took that away from them ever consumating those feelings. Shinji also lost the Rei he liked in 2.0 The one in 3.0 and the 4th film was another character entirely and Shinji realized that, even though she came to like him, and was apparently programmed to like Shinji because Gendou apparently had some plan in mind, perhaps only simply for the purpose of her protecting Shinji as a pilot to the point she'd be willing to shield him if he was in danger. But naturally, Shinji comes to learn the truth about Rei from Fuyutski and about his mother, thus that relationship that he had towards Rei was also prevented from turning into a romantic bond. That just left Mari. While there is no development in that sense between Mari or Shinji that we see, I figure it's a result of Gendou and Yui, and that there is a story that took place between them in the new world via some sort of artificial memories, if that makes any sense, but simultaneously that Shinji and Mari also still retain some kind of memory of the past world and what they'd all been through, even if they don't recognize the other characters on the other side.] Well I'm definitely going to be rewatching this film a bunch of times. And I believe that Anno had to cut out a lot of content to make the film, that it seems he is willing to reexplore in the time gap between 2.0 and 3.0.
The 2.0 blu-ray did have commentary from the English cast, so I'm hoping we'll at least get the old crew back for their thoughts on the end. Some Japanese crew commentary would be awesome, though I'm sure Anno has no interest, but it'd be neat to hear from others who worked on the film. Though I guess, considering the film's length, it'd be hard to fit too much on a 50GB disc. |
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chrisb
Subscriber Posts: 618 Location: USA |
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The scenes with Shinji and his father were my favorite part. I have a strained relationship with my own and we are trying to make a connection now that I am an adult. I think anyone with similar circumstances will be hit hard by the final confrontation. I’m glad the ending to Evangelion is a cathartic one.
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Covnam
 Posts: 3678 |
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So about that ending, spoiler[so are there now multiple worlds/timelines that everyone is sent to, or did everything get reset for the world without Evas ("the real world") we see Shinji in at the end? It seems odd (for instance) to send Asuka to find happiness with Kensuke in the original world and then just undo that by resetting everything... I'd presume not, but then we see everyone at the train station (though those could be different versions).]
Just curious on people's thoughts... |
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MarshalBanana
 Posts: 5359 |
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An OVA or short Movie that takes place between 2.0 and 3.0 would be my last wish for this franchise, something to help explain all these unanswered questions and give more details to the ones it did answer. It seems like they had a story planed out going by the preview at the end of 2.0, stuff about the NERV staff being arrested, yet they just jump forward 14 years. In fact why not an OVA series that only covers that, but also has an origin story for Mari and anything else we need.
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jdnation
Posts: 2007 |
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spoiler[No, I don't see this as there ever being multiple timelines/worlds existing simultaneously. There is only one, and it keeps getting reset. 3.0 basically lays this out, and when Shinji and Kowaru and Rei descend towards Guf, you can see evidence of multiple previous Unit 1's all around climbing something, which is either indicative of the many cycles things have been through, or that something went on before when Shinji wasn't around. Even the numbering scheme of the films 1,2,3 etc. are the beats of music notation until they go back around again repetitively. In this case, in 3's, thoguh you can also do it in 4's. So it seems that Shinji's wish to have a world without Evas, didn't just mean specifically the Evas themselves, but all of Evangelion - the intrumentality, the rituals, the angels etc. Those concepts cease to exist, and the world is now much like our real world, a normal place, which is what Shinji and Mari run back out into, which is live action footage, apparently of Anno's hometown. All the main cast still exist in this world, we only see Asuka, Rei and Kowaru, but it's implied that everyone else made it back there as well and are living their lives somewhere. It doesn't seem that Asuka had any romantic relationship with Kensuke. If I recall correctly, in the original series, Kensuke had the hots for her, but so did all the other boys, and while Toji admitted she was cute, he couldn't stand her. In 3+1 it looks like Asuka was staying with Kensuke. Likely because Toji had a family and he was the only other person she knew. So they might have become closer, but not necessarily romantically. While they were both mentally the same age, in terms of physicality, she remained an underaged girl. As Mari kept coaxing her, she had unresolved feelings for Shinji. At the end when Kensuke takes off the costume and pats her on the head, it seems he was just giving her the paternal love she was seeking. In the originals series, it was her traumatic relationship with her mother that needed fixing. She had no father, in the sense that she was created through IVF. In the Rebuild films, it seems she, like Rei, is also cloned and her past is different than the original series where she has no parental relationships whatsoever. She envies seeing Shinji being looked after by Yui and Gendou. In the original series, her running after Kaji is also seen as her seeking an adult male relationship, but Kaji recognizes it as a lack of a father figure which he can't give her. And it seems that in the finale of 3+1, Kensuke gives her a small bit of what she was looking for. So in a sense, Asuka and Shinji are similar in that both are seeking father figures, except Shinji has Gendou and Asuka never had anyone she knew. When Kaji kept rebuffing her, she tried to turn to Shinji for some attention, and she was also jealous that he chose to spend more time with Rei than with her. We don't know what became of Kensuke, his and Asuka's new life as well as Rei and Kowaru's and everyone elses' are left up to your imagination, but to make a clean break, all of their memories of each other and their pasts are erased.]
Yeah, this is what I want. Most likely Khara will do it, if only for the money, and Anno will produce it, but I don't know if he'll direct it. He may see it as an opportunity to pass the directing reigns off to someone else, though still be involved in fleshing out the main story, most of which he probably wrote down roughly already. I can see why he left it out. It was probably enough content to fill a movie on it's own, and knowing what occurred would ruin the empathy we'd feel spoiler[with Shinji waking up in 3.0, not knowing what the heck is going on, and the stunning realization that he was responsible for screwing up the world when he thought he was trying to save it, and despite it all, failed to save Rei. I can see it as being more of a Misato/NERV crew story. And was probably another reason why they skipped it as the main lead, Shinji, isn't around and he's the linchpin of the Rebuild films, so it wouldn't fit.] This arc is probably where we'd have also gotten more backstory on Mari and what the heck she was doing there. |
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DangerMouse
Posts: 3984 |
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spoiler[You probably saw it by now but just in case you haven't seen her in the shot yet, she's second from the far left at the train station.  ]
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dm
Subscriber Posts: 1376 |
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Was anyone else reminded of Douglas Trumbull's film Silent Running when we saw the seed-ships at the Lagrange-2 point?
During part of the wrap-up --- as we're getting close to the train-station scene --- we're treated to a montage that appears to include spoiler[Asuka's ejected plug on the ground next to Kenosuke's hut/workshop, also the escape pods in the water near the village (followed by a mass of footsteps in the sand). But that's before the "reset" in which Mari appears and says farewell to her Eva(s).] Then the scene in the train station. spoiler[Earlier Kaoru tells Shinji that their names are written together in the Book of Life, so they will meet again. I was glad to hear that.] |
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CoreSignal
Posts: 727 Location: California, USA |
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I had similar thoughts too. spoiler[Kensuke sorta liked Asuka in the original, but in this movie, after both being older and more mature, they possibly renewed their feelings for each other, or at least Kensuke]
While I haven't seen Silent Running, it wouldn't surprise me that a classic sci-fi fan like Anno would make a homage to it, since he's done stuff like that before. I don't know if there's any tokusatsu (especially Ultraman) fans here but there's a scene where Asuka's in her room in the village and on the locker, you can see some Ultraman logos. I thought that was pretty neat. |
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TarsTarkas
 Posts: 5852 Location: Virginia, United States |
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I remember the Gendou of the TV series, and I have rewatched Evagelion 1.11 again, in prep for this movie. Considering Gendou's actions in the TV series and in 1.11 and 2.22, I find it hard to believe that anybody would want to be related to Gendou or much less try to have a relationship with him.
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TarsTarkas
Posts: 5852 Location: Virginia, United States |
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Finally watched Evangelion: 3.0+1.0: Thrice Upon A Time.
Something went horribly wrong after the second movie, and the fourth and final movie didn't fix it. I think that the continuity after the second was rewritten or changed significantly. But that has been talked to death already previously. For all the pain, suffering, death, and murder that Genou has caused, what does he get for it. Well, he gets his own flashback montage to humanize him, and as the grand prize, he gets his wish granted. No karmic justice here, lets just reward a successfully evil life. I loved Misato Katsuragi in the first two movies, but in the third movie they changed her into some horrible character. The final movie, sort of brings her back to normal, but with no pretext as to why. They never really explained her betrayal of Shinji in the third movie in a way that made sense. Hell in the final movie they even showed the flashback where she was cheering Shinji on during the beginning of third impact. At least she dies heroically in this movie, while she bleed out (and had her soul ripped out) in the End of Evangelion movie. Speaking of which, the ending arc in the End of Evangelion movie was visually superior to the ending arc of this Thrice Upon A Time movie. Also, I thought that was Yui's face on that massive angel, instead of Rei's. Mari was a mystery when she was introduced in the second movie, and she was still a mystery at the end of the final movie. At least she got a happy ending with Shinji. Shinji, Rei, and Asuka were the main characters of the movies and TV series, yet only Shinji and Mari got a decent bow out, while the other two were just backgrounds. Kind of sad. I think too much time was spent humanizing Gendou, which would have been better spent on our main characters. Or at least on a better epilogue for Rei and Asuka. Now that the final movie is out, hopefully a few years from now, someone from the production will speak out, on what really happened between the transition from the second movie to the third movie. Because whatever it was, it crippled the last half of this quadrilogy. Really sad to say that the End of Evangelion movie was much better than this Thrice Upon A Time final movie. |
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Piglet the Grate
 Posts: 575 Location: North America |
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I had to copy and paste the "spoiler" text when it got too long as it would not all fit onto a single screen.
Did anyone else notice that a homage to Evangelion occurs in Shinryaku! Ika Musume (Squid Girl) Season 2, Episode 11 where the fake robotic squid girl made by Three Stooges goes into emergency backup power mode with it moves too far and pulls the extension cord out of the socket? Very similar to when Angels cut the power cables of a Eva and/or when an Eva is forced to operate away from NERV headquarters. |
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