Forum - View topicHey, Answerman: DOOMSDAY EDITION!
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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Is it "laughable" that the DBZ boxsets are doing tremendous numbers? You might think it's stupid and lame that they're still pushing that show but it's good business for them. Your definition of "dead" seems to be "when I'm sick of it" and not "when it's no longer doing solid business". Which is pretty silly. |
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Hon'ya-chan
 Posts: 973 |
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And it took them how long to release a "decent" set of the material? ADV at least managed to "milk" Evangelion on a set schedule of sorts. |
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Paploo
Posts: 1875 |
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Many japanese creators have contracts that give them a say, and have infamously good contracts/ownership of their materials [often having all rights revert to them after a period of years], far better then the deals many US comic publishes give domestic artists/writers- as Justin Sevakis pointed out, the reason anime and manga take so long to license is that things often have to go all the way through a large chain of approval, ending with the original creators. RightStuf's Shawne Kleckner has also pointed out on these forums before that most anime is licensed by paying an initial fee to license the show, then continuing to pay renewal fees/royalties based on the sales of the material here- the more you buy, the more indeed goes back to the japanese producers and creators. Manga and comics works the same way--- many comic creators DO get royalties based on foriegn edition sales. It's a fairly normal occurence in the publishing industry for authors, just look at J K Rowling. So long as they have a good contract, and I imagine many do, they are getting the rewards that come from having editions sold overseas. With companies like Bandai, Geneon and VIZ, they're not just licensors, they're also sister companies of Japanese anime/manga companies, so you're not just helping out the artist, you're helping the original companies themselves a little more directly. Anime doesn't get made by the creator of the manga- it's a team effort, with a large number of animation companies who also need our support. And yes, Animators do get paid a salary, even at Disney. But the company as a whole needs to make a profit, if they're not making enough money, stuff gets outsourced to a cheaper company/country, and those animators get fired. Or they just stop making animation. Animation companies worldwide tend to operate from project to project, and depend on current projects breaking even and making continued profit off older titles to continue producing new ones. Not buying DVD is a good way to kill them off. Also, in Japan and the US, depending on their contract, the creator of the show does get royalties- so whikle animator A doesn't get royalties, the guy credited as the show's creator might. ps- Justin/Shawn, if you see this, and want to expand/correct/clarify, please feel free to do so. Last edited by Paploo on Fri Sep 28, 2007 5:52 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Paploo
Posts: 1875 |
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While they might still be a big fan, they'd be a pretty crappy fan. I know that if someone ever came up to an artist at a convention, explained that they loved my book, but totally downloaded it online for free, and told all their friends how to download it, and download the works of other artists and animators they like, and then ask for a free sketch............ they probably wouldn't like them very much. [I know I wouldn't] |
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Steventheeunuch
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It took them that long to release a 'decent' (and I use that word sparingly) set of material because people still bought 3-4 episode discs, out of order, at $25 a pop, and FUNimation still made a ridiculous profit from doing so. Eventually people started calling bullshit on it, and so FUNimation stopped, did a cheap remaster and sold it at a price they basically could have always sold it at, and the same people, along with many more, went and rebought it. There is no specific formula for this, and while DBZ was lagging somewhat, they've managed to re-vitalise the franchise, so it's by no means dead (and it is a property that still retains a very high level of international interest). Zac is right in saying that your perception of 'dead' is well.. not really the case. |
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Paploo
Posts: 1875 |
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The main reason Funimation can probably sell DBZ so cheaply now isn't because they always could, it's because releasing all of DBZ on DVD on single discs that actually sold really well provided them with the funds necessary to translated a 500+ episode anime series and release it in the US market. That's an insane thing to attempt [just look at how many Case Closed discs they've done.... yet they've only done a fraction of the show, and it's gonna take years and lots of fan support to finish it without a TV Broadcast, something that's out of Funi's hands since they already tried it, and CN and viewers passed], and even insaner that they actually succeeded.
Those profits also enabled them to expand their business, and take chances in licensing other titles, even some like Kodocha and Fruits Basket that we never thought we'd see otherwise. DBZ is 10000000000000 times more beneficial to the industry then any fansub ever will be. [Funimation actually did finish their entire release of DBZ on dvd btw, though I think the rereleases of the first season stopped when they decided to do boxsets. They'd been released previously dub-only by Pioneer, before Funimation started their own DVD division] |
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Ai no Kareshi
 Posts: 561 Location: South Africa |
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As much as it pains me to side with ikillchicken, I have to agree that this seems more like an elitism-thing. Everyone has his own definition of the word "fan". Someone likes the product but obtains it illegally, so Mr Zac conveniently slaps him with the not a true fan label. See? |
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Paploo
Posts: 1875 |
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Well, obtaining a product illegally isn't exactly a good thing to do is it? Exactly how does it benefit the creator of the show you love? Artists like people who support them, whether it's buying their product, or enjoying it in a free way that does benefit them like reading their books at a library [which is actaully a market that does offer books for free, and gives a profit to book publishers], or watching on TV [same thing- VIZ won't be getting a nice check from Cartoon Network if everyone stopped watching Naruto]. From an artists POV, buying stuff just makes it all the more nicer......I really appreciate it when people buy sketches from me whenever I'm at Cons, or when people subscribe to help sponsor my webcomic. When I get a book published, or publish one myself, I'll really like people who buy it [I know I like the people who've bought my minicomics]. But someone who says they like an artists work, but would tell them that there's no way they'd ever buy it because capitalism is evil..... yeah, they'd not be loved much by the creator in most cases. I think anime/manga fans just feel more comfortable about it because they don't interact with japanese creators, so they never encounter that sort of situation, and think they can get waway with it. Ask some creators who they think is "true fan"- the fan who bought their book, or the fan who purposely scanned it for mass distrbution on the internet. Which one do you think they'd owe more? PS-- Leech is also a term used in webcomics for people who reallllllly totalllllly love your work, but then get angry when you do something as basic as put up merchandise or put up a paypal donations link. Last edited by Paploo on Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:16 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Ai no Kareshi
Posts: 561 Location: South Africa |
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If your definition of a fan is someone who supports the artist, then such people are indeed not fans. If your definition of a fan is someone who loves a certain anime/book/song/etc, however, then those people are fans. People twist the meaning to whatever is suitable for disparaging the other side. |
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Paploo
Posts: 1875 |
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Again, I didn't say they weren't a fan. They still are. They're just not the kind of fan I'd particularly like.....
Everyones a person, but they all have the opportunity to be a bad person. Fans can be Bad Fans. Lazy Fans. Careless Fans. Selfish Fans. I think the person who buys one book or DVD is just as good a fan of something as the person who has dozens of books from a given creator. But the person who just steals it all, and smiles about it, sure is a crappy fan [and the person whose bought some things, but still stolen some others might not be as good of a fans as they should be, though they're certainly nicer to creators then a crappy fan and appreciated for that]. Last edited by Paploo on Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:26 am; edited 4 times in total |
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Ai no Kareshi
Posts: 561 Location: South Africa |
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Fair enough. 
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Steroid
 Posts: 329 Location: At home, where all good hikikomori should be |
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This is a perfect example of what I call "the coin of pain." Suggesting that a pursuit is of greater value because it involves suffering or loss on the part of the pursuer is a monstrous idea. It's not primarily about supporting the artist; if that were the case, a person who downloads many fansubs and buys other merchandise, but no DVDs, would be just as much a fan under this definition, and there would be no problem per se with downloading en masse. The primary complaint is about a transaction in which one party gets what in the compainant's eyes is too much. Take me, for example. A while ago, I stopped downloading fansubs. Now I get my anime by waving a magic wand that the anime fairy gave me, which produces perfect DVD editions of the shows I want right out of thin air. I don't need raws, or translators, or anything other than the original broadcasted show to exist. How does this make me less a fan? Personally, I would rather discuss an anime with someone who viewed it with a "price no object" eye than one who has to consider the cost when judging a show's worth. |
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Mohawk52
 Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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TheVok
Posts: 613 Location: North York, Ontario, Canada |
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Geneon has been looming large in my consciousness lately. For one thing, they program all the anime I currently watch on TV (i.e. on G4TechTV), except Funimation's Shin Chan (on Razer). And most of the series I've been watching through Zip.ca rentals have been from them too, including 'Zipang,' 'Gankutsuou: The Count of Monte Cristo' and 'Haibane Renmei.' I finally received 'Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Society' the other day and realized the last time I saw anything from Manga was, well, 'Stand Alone Complex 2nd Gig.' But I'm probably not the average North American anime consumer. I'm no otaku either. I'm in my 30s and prefer to rent rather than buy. So, a lack of extras doesn't bother me. Still, it strikes me as odd when Zac refers to Geneon's "extremely niche, otaku-oriented shows," if only because I figure my anime tastes are fairly mainstream; I even watch 'Last Exile' on G4 .... |
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Levitz9
 Posts: 1022 Location: Puerto Rico |
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Unfortunately, I fit this mold, and I have but one reason, and it's a doozy: There aren't any places that sell anime around here, and I'd have to go way out of my way to do so, not to mention risk going hungry at school. Sure, there's EBay and Amazon, but again, I don't have the cash to throw around for every time someone decides to sell a boxed set of Rozen Maiden or something. |
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