Forum - View topic(The) Garden of Sinners (movie series).
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Veers
 Posts: 1197 Location: Texas |
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Kruszer
 Posts: 7987 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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Yeah, I'm kinda confused after watching the end there. Who was the dude spoiler[eating the body? And was that a flashback or is Araya still somehow alive? Also where does film 6 fit in with the timeline?]
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Veers
Posts: 1197 Location: Texas |
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(Sorry for that double post, was getting timeouts at work)
Kruszer, yeah that part made me o_O? just a little. We'll see. And as for a timeline, you can find one on wiki I think. Just google around, they're out there. So, watched this movie twice today. Our cast this time... Hayama Hideo: (class 1-4 teacher) disappeard in November Kurogiri Satsuki: taking Hayama's place Tachibana Kaori: is a victim Ouji Misaya: <3 Kaori like a little sister Ryougi Shiki: is in it for the lulz Aozaki Touko: is in it for the lulz Kokutou Mikiya: is in there once or twice Kokutou Azaka: doesn't understand the basics of information warfare Araya Souren: JUST AS PLANNED Giant ghost flower: buh? Here is my plot summary/speculation/rumination. darkchibi07 called this one straight forward, but I'm not sure I'd go that far >_> (Especially since darkchibi07 said that spoiler[Kaori died, which isn't true according to Mikiya]) spoiler[Hayama was doing drugs. Kaori saw him taking drugs, and he drugged her so she wouldn't remember/tell. The drugs caused Kaori to hallucinate about faeries. Supposedly, Kaori tried to kill herself as a result of her mental instability (from the drugs) plus her shame at her use of drugs. Whether or not she actually set the building on fire or if it was someone else is never said (Azaka retraces Kaori's steps, but it is not made clear if Azaka's dialog is reciting fact or rumor). Though the movie paints it like Kaori is dead, it never actually out and says she is, and Mikiya later says she is actually alive, recovering in a hospital or something. Whether or not Ouji knows this is unclear to me. It might not even make any difference, though; the facts that Ouji bases her actions on (Kaori was mistreated and Ouji and her are not together now) would remain in either case. Classmates knew vageuly of Kaori's problem but did not lend any helping hand. This upset Ouji. Araya sent Kurogiri to the school to try and see if Kurogiri could cause Shiki to regain her memories and, I guess therefore her SHIKI personality. This doesn't make a lot of sense in the short term because Shiki didn't go to this school, but I suppose Araya, considering his role in the KnK story, could have had the foresight to assume that Kurogiri and Shiki would cross paths sooner or later. Ouji, uptset about Kaori, confronted Hayama, who died from a heart attack caused by the drugs. Kurogiri(?) gave Ouji the power to control "faeries" using Hayama's body as basis for her faerie familiars. His supposed reason for this was just to amuse himself, and, though he does not say so, also perhaps to create a situation that would lure Touko (and, therefore, Shiki). Ouji used this power to erase the classmates' memories, for Kaori's sake so she would not be remembered as a druggie. Touko somehow got wind of these rumors and had Azaka and Shiki investigate. Here is where the movie starts. Mikiya did his background detective magic and what he told Azaka combined with what she and Shiki found out I guess was enough information for Azaka to know/deduce the things she tells Ouji at the end. Questions that were bugging me that were answered on the second viewing: Q: The "Coutnermeasure" Touko mentioned? A: Loud music so that Azaka couldn't hear. When he tries to jedi mind trick her, she can't hear it  This does lead to the interesting speculation of... just how much of what he said throughout the film was simple words and how much was backed by his powers?
Q; Why is Azaka so shocked when she walks through that door and sees the busted portion of the old building? Or, rather, how come the first time she goes to that classroom (24:49), it is intact, though obviously damaged, but when she goes back to the same room like the very next day (31:31) the building looks like a bomb went off (but not recently)? And when she goes a third time (36:51) it's back to normal. A: Because Kurogiri told them there was nothing over there (even though that is where the whole class of girls really was) and his magic was powerful enough to alter the scenery. O_o? Questions still unanswered after two viewings: Q: Azaka says that Ouji's memory was taken first (before she had her faeries take those of the other students), but by whom? A "real" faerie? The giant ghost flower? By Kurogiri? Or perhaps she didn't mean literally... Q: Speaking of, what IS that giant ghost flower? Does it just somehow symbolize Ouji's wish? (Wish for what? The power to bring "justice" to the other students and Kaori's memory?) Based on Kurogiri's dialog at this part, it kinda makes sense.] Good film, though. Looking forward to seeing the last one now. |
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RedSwirl
 Posts: 344 |
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So I decided to investigate these movies based on a random ad and some quick investigation. All I know is that they are mystery/thriller stories.
What am I in for? Most of the romance and slice-of-life stuff I've seen based on light novels hasn't been very appealing, but this seems to have a serious, genuine twist. To what level can I expect these movies to mess with my mind? Boogiepop Phantom range? Or is it something more on the level of a Satoshi Kon joint? Do I need to have done the books in order to have any chance? I don't really read literature. |
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Kruszer
Posts: 7987 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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You don't have to have read the book as these films are the book in an animated form. They are decently confusing though, but mostly because they're released out of order (purposely). They're complex enough but not really Satoshi Kon complex.
As for what you're in for well...something like this. If you want to get a sense of what the movie or series will be like watch that trailer. |
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Veers
Posts: 1197 Location: Texas |
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Awesomeness. |
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a-cha
 Posts: 15 Location: The United States of America |
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spoiler[Movies 5 through 7 are in chronological order. I've not read the book, but going by the trailer of movie 7, Araya is indeed alive.] |
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Kruszer
Posts: 7987 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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We got flashes in movie 5 about spoiler[Shiki previously encountering Araya though in an incident that happened after movie 2 but before the next chronologically dated film, movie 4. Maybe they're just going to show us what really happened that time then and how Shiki got hospitalized in movie 4. ] In which case spoiler[Araya could have indeed died in movie 5 as was strongly implied, and we're just seeing the past. On the other hand the last scene in movie 6 could also imply that he's alive....somehow too so hence my confusion.]
....could be both too I guess. 
Last edited by Kruszer on Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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a-cha
Posts: 15 Location: The United States of America |
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spoiler[I wondered about the, uh, forshadowing of previous events, ahem, in Paradox spiral as well. Perhaps he laid a trap for the future before those events. Can't wait to see.]
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Veers
Posts: 1197 Location: Texas |
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It was my understanding that the footage we've seen thus far in clips and previews, as well as things said in the other films (like, remember in Paradox Spiral how Araya taps the side of his head and refers to a previous encounter) point towards the last movie's events being set in '95/'96. Based on what Araya says at the end of Paradox Spiral, spoiler[I'm sure he is dead. He may be the bad dude, but everything we've seen of him up until that point seems to indicate he would not the type to lie when he said what he did to Touko.]
If KnK7 is indeed set in 1999, I expect a lot of it to be flashbacks to that rainy night. Guess we'll see. I'm not familiar with the story aside from what I've gleaned from the movies so I may be unaware of certain details that others are privy to. |
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darkchibi07
 Posts: 5476 |
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Ahhh, the 7th and final movie is called "Murder Speculation (second half)." Man, I can't believe it has been about a year and half since I made this thread and kept tabs on it. And as the final movie, we got ourselves a 2-hour feature so the nastiness got increased twice (unless you're in THAT fandom, it'll be just once; you know who I'm talking about; damn druggies!
 ).
spoiler[The entire movie was really straightforward as it did delve in what happened to Shiki in the 2nd movie and how she got to the hospital in the 4th movie. In the present time of the movie, there has been a bunch of killings that occurred in the city. It has been discovered that Rio Shirazumi was the culprit and this was a ploy to draw out Shiki and get her to kill. The relationship between Shiki and Mikiya gets a huge amount of development as well though some of Mikiya preaching of how Shiki shouldn't kill got pretty ham-handed.] Final claymation moment of the day: Mind your manners! And get a good look of a shit load of Type-Moon related claymation characters and figurines in the theater! 
I'll be utterly shocked if this doesn't get licensed here in the U.S. with an English dub being planned as well. Granted one of the toughest thing is how you release a series of 7 movies where 2 of them are normal movie-sized length while the rest are 50 min. long. |
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John Casey
 Posts: 1853 Location: In My Angry Center |
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It's pretty godamn official that spoiler[Shirazumi] has just taken the throne of the batshit crazy anime antagonist. It also doesn't help the fact that has like a gallon of saliva in his mouth, is a crossdresser, and is a spoiler[tweaked weed farmer] to boot.
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Kruszer
Posts: 7987 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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I highly enjoyed the fact that this spoiler[was a Type/Moon work that actually wasn't depressing and ended well. Although, it sure had me going there for a while. Not that depressing is bad as it works sometimes, but it's not preferable either. ]
I was pleased to note that this film cleared up all the questions I had with the film series rather nicely and tied up loose ends. Overall, I'm going to have to say it's a masterpiece unless we get individual pages for the individual films in which case some of them would get different ratings. Also, yeah, spoiler[Shirazumi] definitely is one of most unhinged characters next to the nutjob magus from the 5th installment who was Araya's assistant. |
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Veers
Posts: 1197 Location: Texas |
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Just finished a first run through movie 7 and loved it. Lots of great character development, lots of questions answered, and the usual dose of violence in the usual ufotable meticulious detail. And I really loved the instrumental version of Kimi ga Hikari ni Kaete Yuku that played at the end (before the credits). Some open-endedness to the finale, but in a good way.
Just... yes. Will probably watch it again tonight and see what I missed, then maybe at Christmas break watch all 7 of them again for the full experience.
I can has US release yet? D: And regarding speculation/predictions/questions about its chronological order, movie 7 is indeed the last film both in terms of release order and storyline (its main story is set in 1999), however, it hops back and forth a lot between events in the other films to tie things together and fill in gaps, such as the night Shiki told Kokutou she wanted to kill him and the events that landed her in the hospital, more about Shiki's childhood and a little more about SHIKI, several references to chapter five and even a tie-in to Azaka's chapter. You could watch 1-4 and 6 in pretty much any order, but 5 and 7 really should be watched last, and in that order. |
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Skylark
 Posts: 827 Location: ORE NO TSHIRT |
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I am literally scooping my brains off the floor because the 7th installment blew my mind.
I know it's a movie and thus the production values are higher but I really need to mention just how damn beautiful even the most grotesque things are in this movie. Imagine if anime had a way bigger fanbase and a tonne more money invested in it - the result might be that every anime we see could be of this quality. Kind of like how all the videogames released these days require every pixel to be accounted for and sexy. But I digress. I'm a Type/Moon fanboy so I'm going to spare you guys my drooling, but what a fantastic end to an awesome series. Damn Kokutou looks badass with the spoiler[hair covering his lost eye.] I'm a bit sad that it's ended... But I am not unhappy with the conclusion. In the end, though mystery still surrounds spoiler[certain aspects of Shiki's past and her abilities, the majority of the important loose ends were tied up nicely and the relationship between the two FINALLY recognised by both of them (though the whole "hug, lean back and look into her eyes... go for the kiss! BUT NO it's a second hug damnit" ... well ok the end was still really sweet, i can't complain).] Until something more interesting comes along this is now my Favourite Series of All Time (tm). I feel unfortunate that I can't give it a higher rating than the 6 or so other titles I have ever given a masterpiece rating to because seriously this entire series has been on a completely different level to anything before and probably anything for a while after. |
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