Forum - View topicYour thoughts on "American" anime?
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Bango
Posts: 1122 |
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Make an original and it's a Mary-Sue. Make a fanwork and it's a slash/self-insertion. The reader/viewer/player is damned either way LOL.
Actually fanart spawned a hilarious conversation today when I friend saw his very first official Touhou shmup. Him "Is this the first game?" Me "It's a demo of the upcoming one. It's the latest." Him "But... the art. Wha?" Me "Zun does his own art. It's practically all him actually." Him "But the fanart is so amazing! The anime you showed me looked totally pro! And... and that fighting game..." Me "Yeah Touhou fans are crazy." Him "This is the first time I've seen such a drastic backwards difference between official and fan." Me "Google Image 'Higurashi' and 'hands' sometime." Regarding the Japanese studios thing I highly doubt RWBY had much of a budget at all. Certainly not enough to hire a Japanese studio and pay for translation between houses. If they DID make the show on that type of budget then where the hell did the money go!? |
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KyuuA4
Posts: 1361 Location: America, where anime and manga can be made |
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The funniest thing about that statement: Modern Japanese history is chock full of "imitation". Imitation isn't a one-word street, y'know.
Oh, you have no how many, whom I have come across -- whose feelings have been hurt by the concept of American produced anime and manga. My entire Internet history on this subject started in this same forum, and I have taken it to a couple other anime communities along the way. The angry exchanges between myself and such people is making me rather... nostalgic. And of course, things haven't changed all that much - just slightly. |
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ScumbagYoshi
Posts: 140 |
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I think in the west it's just a different market as far as what type of animation is made. You generally get shows that are more directed towards a younger audience (I'm thinking Pixar, Disney, Nick, CN) and those that aren't (Southpark, Family Guy, The Simpsons) are more humorous in nature.
On the other hand, anime in Japan is kind of treated differently in the sense that its target audience is given a broader stroke, and sometimes people also recognize that there are people here in America who are a bit older that would love to watch what kind of anime comes out of there. There are a few exceptions to the rule though; Avatar the Last Airbender really brought on a much older audience than previously suspected and I've heard great things about B:TAS and remember a few episodes when I used to be really into it as a kid. Still, even these shows are constrained by the boundaries of the networks that they were shown on. I like animation here in the west, as there are plenty of films and shows I think are vastly superior to the most mediocre, average, decent pieces of anime. The problem is I just don't see a Texhnolyze, Mushishi, Ergo Proxy, or Kuuchuu Buranko animated show being made here in the states. That's just not something America has interest in, IMO. To be honest though, I frankly don't care too much if that never happens. I'm already getting my fair dose of these kind of shows when I watch them and when I read, so there's little point in me begging American animators to make something like The Tatami Galaxy when I don't think they can necessarily do a great job with it. |
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Chagen46
Posts: 4377 |
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This is one of the most irritating beliefs I see expressed frequently. What, so we can't try to fix the american animation industry? We should just go "Well, I have anime so I don't need anything else"? Bullshit. I'd rather try to fix the American industry in some way so we get some like Tatami Galaxy, or Techolyze, made here. It may take years, but the more well-made animated works that get made, the better. You just sound so...defeatist. |
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Chiibi
Posts: 4829 |
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Lol are you sure their feelings were hurt or were they merely disgusted? Because there's a difference. I remember seeing an "Amerimanga" advertised a while ago with Tokyopop about a magical ferret that goes on adventures and being pretty disgusted by both the bad art and bad concept....and then my self esteem rose because if something this lame could be published, I could make my own, easily. ..........but then Tokyopop went bye-bye. |
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ScumbagYoshi
Posts: 140 |
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How is that defeatist? You make it sound like there's something wrong with American animation, when there isn't really much wrong. It's just a different market, a different industry, and a whole different audience base than people in Japan. Just because I happen like anime more than I do other shows, or that you happen to, does not mean there's something inherently wrong with the system. The culture is just different. You have to understand that to most people here in America, anime is just niche hobby that certain people share. Those who "dabble" in anime haven't really dabbled far beyond the most popular shows, and probably haven't even heard of terminology like "moe" or "tsundere." I just think all of the creative talent in America is off writing other stories in the form of movies and live action TV shows....oh and books. |
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Bango
Posts: 1122 |
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I generally agree with the assessment that anime is more broad while western animation is either comedies for adults or cartoons for kids. I see things like Avatar, My Little Pony, Wakfu, etc having appeal with adults as a fortunate side effect of a great production team. But I doubt those teams will ever say "let's make something animated but enjoyable specifically to adults" because they make way more money targeting kids with it.
Even animated movies from my childhood like Wizard or Secret of Nihm which seem kerned to adults by modern reckoning were still for kids back then. Heavy Metal was likely one of the last american animated films I can think of that was distinctly marketed to adults and that was a long freakin time ago. I'd love to see westerners make animation that was smart with a deep, serious story and great writing/characters that didn't involve stuff for kids. I believe that day is coming eventually. But americans are still showing Family Guy and Venture Bros to their 6-year-olds just like they're letting them play GTA because they haven't broken away from the "this is for kids" mindset. Until that mindset is completely discarded by the masses progress in this area can't happen because there's no money in it. |
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Chagen46
Posts: 4377 |
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It's not the "animation is for kids" mindset, Japan has literally the exact same thing, just rather unique circumstances led to animation for "adults" (because most anime is not really for adults, most of it's for teenagers/adults with the mindset of teenagers) being a niche subculture and not utterly stamped out completely like in the west.
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Chiibi
Posts: 4829 |
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..........or they are simply too retarded to be able to read TV-14 Viewer Discretion Advised right before the shows come on. .......or maybe they let the TV baby-sit the kids and have no idea. |
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Arkov
Posts: 120 |
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This is something that I think we'll see when someone who doesn't care about profit/is rich enough decides to make a western animation. My pipe dream is to write a successful books, make millions off that then commission an anime of said book, using my immense wealth and excellent persuasive skills to get it on TV. Of course, I don't expect that I'll be successful in this venture (chapter 1 is now three years old and probably in need of a re-write), though hopefully there's someone out there who is thinking along the same lines and actually has the talent/drive to see it through. |
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KyuuA4
Posts: 1361 Location: America, where anime and manga can be made |
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Episode 3 puts some very big grins on my face.
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Crisha
Moderator
Posts: 4290 |
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^Me too!
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Gatherum
Posts: 773 Location: Aurora CO |
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Not sure how many of you follow him, but gigguk has posted a "first impression" video for RWBY, viewable here.
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Jose Cruz
Posts: 1778 Location: South America |
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Well, most anime series air late at night so they are actually adult. Also, teenagers usually watch the same things as adults. The great demographic divide is between children under 12 and people over 12. The vast majority of anime is made for people over 12 while the vast majority of western animation is made for people under 12. It's true, however, that some anime series that air late at night like Attack on Titan and Haruhi Suzumia, are not strictly adult (unlike Lain or Madoka) but the same applies for most movies in the US (the highest grossing blockbuster films are never adult, adult films like those of Haneke and Tarr are watched by a small group of film nerds). Strictly serious adult stuff is always a niche thing everywhere while the highest selling stuff is always a bit more juvenile: highest selling novels? Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, etc Highest selling manga? One Piece, most popular anime films? Spirited Away, most popular anime TV series? Sazae San. That's because juvenile stuff has a more universal appeal while strictly adult stuff is more complex and in fact too intellectually demanding for the majority of the adult population. And yes, Japan has a completely different attitude towards graphic novels and animation than the west which is a product of essentially differing cultures that evolved differently over a period of thousands of years. In Japan the animation industry is several times larger than the live action cinema industry, something like that would never happen in any western country - Akira Kurosawa was already complained in the late 1980's that the anime industry was draining all the talent from the cinema industry and that most young people were excited with animation and not traditional cinema. While per capita sales of manga in Japan are about the same as per capita sales of novels in the US (measured in pages per capita). Clearly, Japanese attitudes toward animation and graphic novels are more favorable than some people here appear to think (I ever heard people say that there are around 50,000 to 100,000 anime fans in Japan, a ludicrously low number, Brazil has more hardcore anime fans than that). Last edited by Jose Cruz on Fri Aug 02, 2013 12:18 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Jose Cruz
Posts: 1778 Location: South America |
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The problem is that we don't have a culture that uses the medium freely. Animation in the US is derived from comic strips and even today tends to follow the same patterns, For instance, only in Japan that they though of adapting The Legend of Galactic Heroes novel series into a animated series. In the west the same novels would be adapted into a live action TV series (like Game of Thrones). If you were rich you would need to hire a Japanese animation studio to adapt your novel into a serious animated series. US animators in fact probably cannot even animate a seriously looking show (like Monster, for instance). Even graphic novels like The Walking Dead were adapted into live action film. Though I think that the future trend is for animation to continually increase in acceptability and diversity in the West so in a few decades we might have an environment not very different from Japan's. |
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