Forum - View topicThe Mike Toole Show - Poke-Matic
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kakoishii
Posts: 741 |
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If that's the case, then it really does show. It was starting from the Johto league that things got extra repetitive, extra boring, and damn near unwatchable (assuming there were people still watching, however obviously that was the case). Honestly, they really should have just had a new protagonist for every region, Ash being a novice trainer is what made the Indigo League and Orange Islands arcs so entertaining because we could see the growth from a dummy who thinks it's a good idea to catch a spearow by throwing a rock at it (I still lol at this), to someone capable of winning a championship. As you could probably guess, I stopped watching the show long ago. I actually labored through the Johto arc and watched the first half of Hoen before I called it quits, but it was such a painful viewing experience. Rather than letting the audience connect with a new novice trainer, they have to belabor Ash's growth with some contrived plot device of having him start over with new pokemon in every region and give away all of his good pokemon along the way (I will never get over how Ash freaking just gave away his charizard). And it just makes it worse when every once in while they decide to bring Ash down a notch by having him lose to some wet behind the ears trainer who's been in the game for a way shorter time than him. It just makes you wanna throw the remote at the tv and say "Seriously?!" But I digress 
To this day I still play the games as they still continue to be fun and addicting leisurely activities. Eagerly awaiting BW2's release in the states. Not to keep bagging on the Pokemon anime series but was anyone else bothered by the fact that Ash constantly uses his pokedex to learn information on pokemon that he's already seen before and learned about via dexter prior? What's worse is he acts like he's never seen the pokemon before every time, wtf? Seriously wtf? |
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TitanXL
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This isn't contrived at all. He starts fresh in each new region for the challenge; that's his personality. He loves fighting and challenges and he's your typical shounen protagonist, only a bit smarter since he uses some actual strategy. He loves adventure and the challenges along the way. I know the dub wrote him as an idiot, but there is a purpose to this in the original. I don't see how it's dumb he release Lizardon when that's what it wanted. Pokemon are living creatures, you know. If they find a calling he's more than happy on letting them choose their path in life. Just like when he release Butterfree, or even when Musashi released her Dokucale.
Like?
He doesn't really do this in the original version. |
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peachsncreamsoda
 Posts: 270 |
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Oh my god was I just hit with nostalgia...
I so remember Mon Colle Knights! And oh god Flint the Time Detective too! Along with Monster Rancher and Medabots! And Cardcaptors! Oh my god seriously, like, i'd have totally forgotten about some of them had this not been brought up! Oh god I so remember watching those shows... Back when Saturdays actually meant something... Hell, thats what I counted on before I found AS! And I didn't even know it was anime then, that I was watching... But wow... can't believe i'd forgotten about those shows... But yeah, just like others, was a total 90's kid myself. So, naturally, was also into the whole Pokemon and Digimon thing. I played the games, watched the shows... Yeah, I was totally totally into those shows~ God... oh man, I can still remember going to the movies and seeing both the Pokemon film and the Digimon movie. And I gotta say, despite being more picky about what I consider good now, I absolutely loved those movies! Even the second Pokemon one. Though, I did eventually stop watching Pokemon and Digimon... The former because it just got so repetitive. And Digimon because, well,... spoiler[when the kids started actually becoming Digimon, I lost my interest.] But yes, Yu-Gi-Oh! I too, just like the Digimon and Pokemon, was obsessed with it too. Just like Digimon and Pokemon, I watched the series, played the games, got the cards... And while it was never as big as Pokemon was imo, I do think its one of those series that people will always look back on and remember getting into it. (Those that got into it I mean.) Unlike Digimon and Pokemon though, I actually finished that series till' the very last arc before the second series about the school or whatever... Even though my interest started to fade... But yeah, can not believe this topic~ Can not believe I forgot those shows! And oh my god, do so remember them all! And just how popular and obsessed everyone was about Pokemon... Even now I still think it was somewhat awesome to see just about everyone into that sort of thing all at one time. (I still laugh to this day thinking about how some people would go out of their way to make fake Pokemon cards.) But anyways, YES! Oh my god thank you for this topic! I swear... thank you  !
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TsukasaElkKite
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Pokemon and Digimon were (and still are) my favorites.
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yamiangie
 Posts: 465 |
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I remember all the shows brought up in the article and the ones mentioned in the thread.
fav lines from Duel Masters dub paraphrased because it's been to long Friend: Some how he's been able do draw the right cards when he needs to. Hero: But I do that do. Friend: It's not the same. I was very upset when they switched out the cast as I liked Josh Seth at the time. I'm glad Summer Wars exists, it takes my mind off how the Digimon movie had that short at the front for that Angela Anaconda Show. as someone who has the first name Angela that show scared the crap out of me. So I feel Mike's pain at not finding an angle with the Pokemon movies. I can't think of one that's going to wow us in terms of story telling. They always had more of an bang in music or animation. The same thing happens ever movie by now. It's like in the Detective Conan movies you can set your watch to when the building, or ship they are on is going to blow up. Pokemon movies seemed like an excuse to have way to much fun creating neat villages were people live in trees or poke Venice. |
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arsonal
Posts: 15 Location: Kuala Lumpur |
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I was one of the moviegoers for Pokemon 2000 and even got the special oversized card of Moltres, Zapdos, and Articuno to prove it. It was the only Pokemon movie I ever watched in theaters, and I wasn't disappointed. I was so captivated by the movie that I proceeded to get Pokemon Crystal. Pokemon had a magical charm to it during the Kanto and Johto arcs, but it unfortunately dissipated during later arcs. Perhaps it was also because I was about to finish middle school.
I think Digimon came at the right time for many people who were beginning to outgrow Pokemon. The more mature storyline and themes definitely attracted the former viewers of Pokemon who could no longer be satisfied by the series's formulaic approach. I remember eagerly anticipating every weekly airing of the first three seasons of Digimon on Saturday mornings. I think I speak for many here when I say that Digimon deserves more home video releases than just Digimon the Movie(s). We are fortunate now to have Digimon Adventure 02 and Digimon Tamers on Hulu, but they are still subtitled versions of Toei's original releases. Even at this age when I'm well into my adulthood, I will immediately make a purchase if Saban releases the dubbed series on a DVD set. Given that Saban recently made an arrangement to have the Power Rangers set released, I am hoping it will also be the case for Digimon. I hope Saban knows that there are many who still love Digimon as much as they did 12 years ago. |
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Cutiebunny
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When Pokemon first hit the US in 1998, I was in college. I remember watching the show (it was right after Sailor Moon) and being absolutely fascinated by it. Slowly but surely, others in my dorm thought it was awesomesauce to the point that a huge group of us would watch the show every weekday in the common room. When the first Pokemon movie opened in theatres, the first showing's audience were exclusively college students.
I did buy the cards for a while, and for a while, I also contracted with a Japanese seller and sold many of the cards on US auction sites. I remember that people would pay $$$ for stuff like a 'Birthday Pikachu' card. I still have my old cards, though. I plan on having my future grandkids roll them down to the Antiques Roadshow one day. I still buy the video games, and an occasional Pokecenter plushie. With the exception of Tamers, Digimon never tugged at me the same way Pokemon did. I love underdog characters - and that's Satoshi. The kids in Digimon seemed to have cookie-cutter personalities and issues...the token emo kid, the nerd, the popular pretty girl with a heart of gold, etc. Thanks to the advent of 24/7 anime on the internet, with a crazy work schedule, I'm able to tune in and watch current Poke/Digimon episodes. Though, my Pokemon watching is generally reserved for gym leader/new captures episodes, and I've frankly lost interest in season 2 of Xros Wars (I really dislike Tagiru/Gumdramon). |
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RestLessone
 Posts: 1426 Location: New York |
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I don't want it to become dark and angsty; he's always been a happy character. I just want a change-up in the plot and some real, lasting development. Pokemon follows the routine of an episode revolving around something 'important,' only for it to never be mentioned again. You only get a callback once in awhile. The rest is the standard journey-league-win-lose?-win!-journey routine with some 'meet someone's mixed in. |
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Juno016
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Just a quick question (not an accusation), but did you watch the English dub only? After having recently watched both the English dub and Japanese raw of the first two seasons, I've noticed a HUGE difference in the characterization. Granted, the English dub was pretty accurate with the great majority of actual plot and translation, the characters were extremely stereotyped in the English version. Yamato/Matt was originally a mature kid who cared most for his little brother and only threw fists on characters who would fight back, if he was angry. The English version gave me the vibe of "lone/depressed" kid more than "caring." Mimi was quite smart and her major flaw was being occasionally selfish when it came to avoiding hurt for herself or others. The English dub seemed to pass her off as a ditz most of the time, which REALLY hurt my opinion of her, especially since she had my favorite personality of all the female characters (even though I had a crush on Hikari/Kari as a kid). Not to mention, the motives behind Ken's becoming the "Digimon Emperor" were extremely different, especially in how he portrayed himself when he was harsh and cruel. In the English version, he was a snob, but he simply did things without effort and wanted stronger Digimon. The Japanese version was similar to that, but I noticed an extra layer of depth, including his inner feelings and outward portrayal of himself. I believe there's one famously contrasted scene where he said "Oh, no. It was only 1% talent and 99% effort." And when they made the dub, he said, "Of course. Only 1% effort, but 99% genius." ...Or something like that. The "snobiness" came off extremely flat in the English version while it seemed to be part of the motivation in the Japanese version. The jokes in the English version don't help how serious the series is supposed to come off as most of the time... That being said, I enjoy the English version for its nostalgic factor. If I had seen the Japanese when I was a kid, though, the English version would be atrocious... As for Pokemon, I was never a huge fan of the anime, since I missed out on most of Advanced Generations until I rewatched it, but with the Diamond & Pearl series, I got back into it and simply fell in love again. Yes, it's ridiculous. Yes, it makes little to no sense. But I can't deny the enjoyment I get from it. |
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StudioToledo
 Posts: 847 Location: Toledo, U.S.A. |
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I was already the legal drinking age when Pokemon found it's way to our American TV sets via syndication (which meant I had to watch it on an out-of-town station as nobody locally cared to air it at all, we didn't even get the KFC tie-in beanie baby clones that showed up during that time so I had a friend send me a Zubat once). It was an OK show, but prior to that I had the infamous recording of that one episode that surely left an indelible impression upon many who've seen it! I kinda liked it for what it was and bothered scoring raw Japanese copies of episodes plus the first movie from others via USENET.
I also saw the Digimon films too (basically in either raw Japanese or early fansubbed) and certainly the similarities between "Our War Game" and "Summer Wars" could be debated greatly. What I didn't like was submitting myself into watching a tape of the US release FoxKids did (I should've pulled out the cassette before that cruddy featurette withing some stiff Flash/cut-out characters was over). |
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belvadeer
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I grew out of Ash can't catch 'em all's silly little series years ago. I much prefer Digimon which at least has more cohesive stories, despite Xros Wars hasn't really attempted to do anything new with the series. The Digimon are far more interesting creatures to me than Pokemon.
Monster Rancher was hands down much better and far darker than most animated shows at the time, and the idea of a kid kicking monsters around with his rollerblades just rocked. After Monster Rancher got moved to that silly Fox Family, they cut out a lot of the violent moments (which peeved me greatly), but it was the only way I could finish it. After having seen the entire show fully in English, I would love a chance to see the whole thing again in Japanese. Heck, I loved Mon Colle Knights too, short-lived as it was. It had a certain level of charm that made it different from the other "kids and their monsters" shows. The dub was stupid funny, but it wasn't unwatchable. Pokemon's problem is that it's been around for far too long and really just needs to go, but they insist on continuing it to keep sucking in (and suckering) new generations of wide-eyed youth, and it works unfortunately. That's how their business stays alive, swallowing away the days, weeks and months of these kids' lives. I actually remember I liked the series, when it was simpler with Red and Blue. I had no qualms about it. I also kept watching the show until I realized it just kept going on and on without a clear conclusion approaching. At that point, I just dropped the whole thing and never looked back. Kids and their monsters series continue to pop up out of the woodwork, and it's just another chance to swallow up more kiddies and their cash. Props to their business tactics. Last edited by belvadeer on Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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TitanXL
Posts: 4036 |
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Digimon fans are a bit lucky though, there's no more awful dubs ruining the image of the show. Xros most likely (and hopefully) will never be dubbed, so there's no need to worry about little kids or dub watchers getting into the fandom or basing their views on it because of a bad dub. Cardfight!! Vanguard is another one; being legally streamed subbed with low chances of a dub (but despite this, they release the English card game here.. an unlike Yu-Gi-Oh, Pokemon, or Digimon.. it's pretty much uncut because the show wasn't dumbed down for kids) If only Yu-Gi-Oh! and Pocket Monsters had the luxery Digimon and Cardfight has (and simply correcting people is of little use, as we've seen, they wont let go of their preconceived opinions despite being presented with facts from the original version) I really hope that's the future for more merchandise anime: subtitled release on official stream sites with no dub. Everyone benefits from this method, from the show's fandom, to the people who get into the merchandise. It's nice you can play "Amon, the Marquis of Hell" in the English version of Cardfight Vanguard without it being censored like it is in Pokemon or Yu-Gi-Oh with names like "Houndour" or "Unfriendly Fiend". Cardfight Vanguard is probably the first competently handled merchandise series to hit western shores, and with luck, it wont be the last. |
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White Lightning Alchemist
Posts: 51 |
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At least Yu-Gi-Oh! is finally being released with subs although we haven't been getting perfect translations due to Konami wanting the card names to be the same as the US version. That's the thing about Cardfight!, there is no US merchandise, so why change anything? |
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Snomaster1
 SubscriberPosts: 2819 |
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To be honest,I've enjoyed "Pokemon" for years now. I've even enjoyed the movies. Almost all of them are wonderfully done. I didn't like "Digimon:The Movie or "Yu-Gi-Oh!:The Movie" because they were both terrible. "Digimon:The Movie" was terrible because they let the fight scenes overwhelm the story. And I didn't like "Yu-Gi-Oh:The Movie" too much. I thought that the script sabotaged the movie. It started off well,but the movie got bogged down with the centerpiece duel and it just ran out of steam before the finish.
I felt that the movie was a badly handled version of the tv show. Just about anyone could have come up with better story ideas,even me! They could have done something like this. The movie's villain kidnaps Tea and Yugi and his friends have to rescue her. And the only way to do that is for them to go through a series of duels and they have to defeat the villain if they ever wanted Tea back. That would have been far better than the movie I had to sit through which was just an overblown version of the tv show. And yes,I did see "Monster Rancher" and "Mon Colle Knights." They weren't too bad. But,I do know of a monster series that was never brought to the United States. It was called "Legendz." And,believe it or not,it was set in New York. I do know that the manga made it here,but why the heck didn't the anime? Just about any North American studio,including 4Kids would have found it easy to dub. They wouldn't have had to change too many of the names around. Why wasn't "Legendz" brought here? That's what I want to know. |
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kakoishii
Posts: 741 |
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I thought the whole goal here was being the best and becoming a pokemon master? At this point he could definitely be the best if he didn't keep handicapping himself in each region. And in case you choose to go the route of him wanting to catch and train as many pokemon as he can, tell that to the dozens of pokemon keeps boxed up with the professor and rarely get to see the light of day outside of the pokemon lab.
Perhaps, but he sets his pokemon free/gives them away so easily like his baublesaur and squirtle that a lot of times it just makes it seem like he let's his ace players slip through his fingers. As for your other reference, that doesn't mean a hill of beans to me because I don't follow the japanese dub and I barely know all 500 odd english names for the pokemon let alone any of the japanese names. You're going to have to translate for a group of people, many of which have only seen the dub.
It's litterally been almost 10 years since I last faithfully watched a pokemon episode, but what I can remember about the episode I was directly referring to it was either in the Johto or Hoen region and Ash was battling this novice trainer that just started his journey and Ash was acting a bit arrogant which is probably why they had him lose, but arrogance or not for someone who's been a trainer as long as him, there is absolutely no reason he should have lost. I also recall a battle he had with May once that he lost, again there's no reason whatsoever he should be losing to someone that inexperienced.
Then in the Japanese dub what is he saying everytime he uses a pokedex to look up information on a pokemon he's already seen before? What would be the purpose? |
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