Forum - View topicAnswerman - Weary Optimism
|
Goto page Previous 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||
|---|---|---|---|---|
Alan45
 Village Elder Posts: 9871 Location: Virginia |
|
|||
|
The initial question was the possibility of the questioner having to upgrade his Blu-ray disks in the foreseeable future. The side conversation about games is not to the point as this is not anime disks.
Jason has essentially said that we couldn't see the difference if anime was up scaled to 4K. I have a separate concern. In order to upgrade your Blu-ray disks, it would have to be to something. So far there doesn't seem to be any noise about "the next big thing" in durable content delivery. I suppose you could put 4K content on existing disks, but four time the resolution implies a similar increase in storage space. How many minutes of 4K content could existing disks hold? Broadcast content in 4K is possible, however this assumes your cable system has the infrastructure to carry that and is willing to do so with out a major price increase. In any case, I gather people are trying to get away from linear broadcast content. This leaves streaming, Justin did mention content in "the cloud" however we already have a number of people here complaining about their inability to consistently stream from, say Crunchyroll, in 1080p. If that is the case how are they going to handle 4k? Will this be limited to people in major cities or major universities? So the question is, even assuming someone produces an anime in native 4K resolution, how are you going to get it to your TV screen? |
||||
|
||||
|
yurihellsing
|
|
|||
my current connection is http://www.speedtest.net/my-result/3420680709 and i can stream 4K videos with no issues and as for pushing content to my TV an average APU set up can do 4K with little or no issues what so ever. also the price of 4K displays are coming down pretty fast atm. |
||||
PurpleWarrior13
 Posts: 2027 |
|
|||
|
Honestly, I have no desire to see TV in a better resolution than I do now.
|
||||
|
||||
agila61
 Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
|
|||
Though having seen the difference in network load charts when streaming Flash video from Crunchyroll to a PC and streaming to a dedicated device, much of that could be the resource inefficiency of Flash video ... ... back at the 2013 CES Broadcom was peddling their HEVC encoding as cutting the bitrate bandwidth required in half, so rather than 4K increasing the bandwidth requirement fourfold, it would only increase it twofold. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Have I been watching too much anime if I am holding my applause after the stirring, inspirational message, because it seems the next step is for Justin to jump into a giant robot to go out and save the world? |
||||
|
||||
Blanchimont
 Posts: 3459 Location: Finland |
|
|||
What I've seen of h265/HEVC content, storage shouldn't be an issue if you used bluray for 4K content, at least for standard-size movies. Heck, as inefficient as the form of h264 used on existing BDs is, DVDs wouldn't have a problem to hold todays HD in comparable quality if used in an efficient manner... So storage may not necessarily be a problem. Transfer rates are. And the hardware doing the decoding/display. |
||||
|
||||
|
Alan45
Village Elder Posts: 9871 Location: Virginia |
|
|||
|
@yurihelsing
I'm glad to hear you have a good internet connection. However, my question is when will everyone have such a connection, or at least enough to support the new technology. @agila61 In another thread, you mentioned that some of the people complaining about streaming Crunchyroll might have a problem due to the hardware between them and Crunchyroll and not due to their connection. How much of the nation's infrastructure would need to be updated for people to reliably stream 4k? @Blanchmont Is the transfer rate you mention dependent on the speed of disk rotation? Some Blu-ray players and some Blu-ray disks already have a problem with noise of rotation. How much faster can we rotate the disks and still mass produce them? I'm not suggesting that 4K is impossible. I'm just curious as to how much has to change for the general public to take advantage of the new 4K sets now available. The change from VHS to DVD only involved buying a DVD player for most people. The change to Blu-ray required both a new TV and a Blu-ray player. The change to 4k looks to involve a lot more. I note that cable providers took advantage of the onset of HD to charge additional for access and set top boxes. I'm wondering what they would do for 4K. I also note that internet service providers are making noise about charging extra for heavy bandwidth usage. Will 4k bring enough improvement that people will be willing to pay the increased cost? |
||||
|
||||
|
agila61
Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
|
|||
Rather, due to the connection between their ISP and the point of presence for Crunchyroll's CDN ... Crunchyroll uses one CDN for their device support and one for their PC support, and given the inefficiency of flash streaming, we can assume that there are some people who's problem involves a gateway or path in between their ISP and Crunchyroll's that has capacity constraints. How many have which problem: 1. bottlenecks on the Crunchyroll side, behind the CDN POP 2. bottlenecks between the CDN POP and their ISP 3. bottlenecks in their ISP, say throttling down lower priority streams to maintain good HBO 2 Go and Netflix performance 4. bottlenecks in their LAN 5. performance problems with their implementation of Flash (and of course the 26 permutations and combinations of those five problems) ... I wouldn't know, you'd have to be looking at Crunchyroll's logs from its CDN's to sort that out. What a streaming site can do automatically and on the fly to cope with the second problem is to look for an access point that does not face the same congestion, and based on some discussion on the Crunchyroll member forum, Crunchyroll is working on that, with on the fly hand-off of streams from one CDN to the other. I'd bet that one is particularly relevant to countries where the CDN Crunchyroll uses doesn't have as dense a network of points of presence. What a streaming site can do automatically and on the fly to cope with the first four is to adaptively fall back to lower bitrate encodes, either more highly compressed or lower resolutions or both. Crunchyroll has that to an extent in some of their devices (eg, the Roku will fall back to 360p if it buffers too much at 480p), I believe they are working on that for their flash player as well. I know that Netflix and Youtube already pretty much do both in their own ways. With adaptive selection of encoding, a lot of 4K streaming will be best case anyway, with a lot of prime time viewing involving getting 1080p resolution encoded with h.265 under conditions that would give 720p with h.264, or else 720p resolution with h.265 that would give 480p with h.264. And of course a lot of people will be convinced that its the 4K that is why their Netflix looks better, when for much of their viewing its actually the h.265 decoding built into their network-enable TV, and a 1080p TV connected to a device that decodes h.265 would give an identical picture. |
||||
|
||||
|
SpacemanHardy
Posts: 2509 |
|
|||
Now THAT speech.... I'll give a standing ovation too. 
|
||||
|
||||
|
kanechin
Posts: 447 |
|
|||
|
with that SPEECH I assume these pieces of human garbage are those who make $$ from loli fanservice?
You're right. It's not normal, to you, and many others. 80% of the world hating lolis doesn't equal everyone hates lolis and should not mean that those who like it should be treated like shit (as long as it's fictional), we're not in a hive mind. The only harm being fictional is causing is that you don't like it in the real world so it shouldn't exist in fiction. Some like it, some don't. Get over it, move on. I hate twilight, it's here to stay so I avoid viewing any twilight. I'm not attacking fans or going to congress to demand it be made illegal. |
||||
|
||||
Jave
 Posts: 198 |
|
|||
Hm.. how do you explain their non otaku media then?  You got mainstream kiddy shows over there with the same kinda content that you can find in otaku anime for short of lolis with nipple pastie censoring. Doraemon loves to make jokes about Shizuka getting naked, Detective Conan harps up the 'Conan can bathe and take advantage of girls since he's in a kids body', Jewelpet had 100% canon brother/sister incest shenanigans, even Naruto had the running gag of Neji trying to bone his cousin to 'keep the family bloodline pure' 
There's a lot of non-otaku stuff you have a ton of loli/incest content in. Even iconic mainstays like Super Sentai and Kamen Rider. I'd say it's safe to say there's cultural differences in play here that makes it more acceptable or at least you can joke and talk about it without the moral guardians storming down your door and cancelling your show. Blood related brother-sister incest, by the way.. not the cop out not-blood-related incest some otaku anime do.. so hey, Jewelpet one upped them
|
||||
|
||||
BooktapC
 Posts: 80 |
|
|||
|
"Entertainment has never been easy or stable."
That is looking at things with hope albeit weary. I actually do feel it is anime's golden age. We have seen its up and downs but overall many good things have mostly come. Really enjoyed reading this week's column. |
||||
|
||||
|
tehyar
Posts: 35 |
|
|||
|
You seem to have spent a lot of time deciding that 4k is useless, since it's "importance will rank equal or slightly under that of 3D". That's not the case for many of the people I know. Apparantly you haven't started using a "tv" as your computer monitor yet. 4k is going to be a huge advancement.
|
||||
|
||||
writerpatrick
 Posts: 672 Location: Canada |
|
|||
|
4K is noticeably sharper than HD, however the material has to have been originally shot in 4K for it to make a difference. Upscaling doesn't do any good. And the one difference it has over 3D is that one doesn't have to wear glasses to get the effect. In fact a good 4K film can look 3D without glasses.
I don't think 4K will matter with anime, at least for some time to come. It's hard enough now to tell the difference between 1080 and 720 if you're sitting any distance from the screen. And with animation, large areas are painted the exact same color and don't have the details needed to make the higher resolution effective. Think of how big a page an animator uses currently to draw an image, and you'll realize that to get 4K animation to look good the animator would need a page the size of the whole desk. |
||||
|
||||
Touma
 Posts: 2651 Location: Colorado, USA |
|
|||
Justin was talking about home video, with an emphasis on anime. In that context I definitely agree with him. For the TV sets that most people have in their homes 4k resolution will not be noticeably different from full HD. I do think that people will see an improvement in the pictures on the new 4k sets, but it will not be because of the increased resolution. The improvements will be due to better LCD screens and better electronics. I believe that most of the significant improvements could be done with current HD sets, but the manufacturers want to save them for 4k. I also agree that for home video something better than Blu-ray will be needed, at least for anime in North America. The studios are already putting as much as possible on the discs. Even with the new video compression a 4k file will be at least 2.5 times as large as a full HD file with the same content. That means that probably two or three times as many discs would be needed. I don't think that either the manufacturers or the consumers want that. I think that we will probably be getting anime in HD for a long time to come. |
||||
|
||||
clawfinger
 Posts: 38 Location: Illinois |
|
|||
|
The last answer really rings true to me as I have the same outlook on the things I enjoy a lot. This is a golden era for almost everything. Video games, comics, and anime. There is so much high quality stuff that its impossible to consume everything. But I'm not afraid to point out mistakes and voice a respectable negative tone at times.
|
||||
|
||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group