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NEWS: U.K. Man Sentenced for Prohibited Images of 'Manga' Children


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Rederoin



Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 1427
Location: Europa
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 4:51 pm Reply with quote
Funny enough, I was just reading some high-school trap hentai will I saw this article.


ZiharkXVI wrote:
Wait...a law was passed that regulates morality. That's 100% of all criminal law. I don't see any issue whatsoever. If such behavior is not acceptable to that society to the degree that they criminalize it, then that individual partakes in the activity to his own risk.

Sort of an idiot really, unless he wanted to make a statement. Although I'm not sure the statement, "We should be free to draw children's sexual acts" is a very good one. Sort of depraved. I'm sure someone is going to suggest that the current moral guideline is actually unfair and prejudiced, but that of course is a moral statement, so I don't know where that gets you. Maybe your moral view is somehow more right? I disagree.

Perhaps instead of looking at the issue in the sense that the law is hindering freedom of expression, one might wonder if this individual is expressing anything other than a sickness of the mind. If so, shouldn't we be glad he's stopped? I certainly don't need to see what he's drawing, and I'm fairly certain nobody else does as well.

Or maybe, just maybe, we should get rid of laws that ban harmless actions/are nothing more than censorship.
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RAmmsoldat



Joined: 19 Oct 2005
Posts: 1261
Location: North wales coast
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 4:51 pm Reply with quote
consignia wrote:
leesahlynn wrote:
Probably a touchy subject for the UK as a certain pedophile rights group gains ever more attention AND public support. Did you know they're trying to get the public not to use "pedophile" anymore? They want to be called "minor-attracted people" and have it declared a protected sexual orientation. The UK Guardian published an entire feature story on how pedophiles should be treated as normative and pointed to research that claims there's no evidence to support that adults having sex with kids is actually damaging to the kid in any way.

Can you blame a judge for taking action in the midst of a literal uprising of demanded acceptance?


Who is this organisation? The militant peadophile orgainsation Millipead?

I doubt there's any public support for such a cause. If it even exists. The whole thing reads like a Daily Mail diatribe, whipped up to anger the middle classes.


watch out for those pedos in microlights committing overhead perversions.
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Small Waves



Joined: 30 Jul 2014
Posts: 7
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 4:53 pm Reply with quote
ZiharkXVI wrote:
Perhaps instead of looking at the issue in the sense that the law is hindering freedom of expression, one might wonder if this individual is expressing anything other than a sickness of the mind. If so, shouldn't we be glad he's stopped?


Are you seriously advocating the concept of thought crime? Hahaha oh wow

Also there's no correlation between liking loli/shota and being a pedophile, much less pedophilia and child sexual abuse crimes.
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leesahlynn



Joined: 17 Mar 2014
Posts: 81
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 4:55 pm Reply with quote
Here's the UK Guardian feature, if anyone wants to read it. They cite many of those studies themselves right in the story for you.

Second paragraph illustrates what I'm talking about well:
Quote:
It is difficult today, after the public firestorm unleashed by revelations about Jimmy Savile and the host of child abuse allegations they have triggered, to imagine any mainstream group making anything like such a claim. But if it is shocking to realise how dramatically attitudes to paedophilia have changed in just three decades, it is even more surprising to discover how little agreement there is even now among those who are considered experts on the subject.
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ZiharkXVI



Joined: 29 Jan 2009
Posts: 368
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 4:58 pm Reply with quote
Rederoin wrote:
Funny enough, I was just reading some high-school trap hentai will I saw this article.


ZiharkXVI wrote:
Wait...a law was passed that regulates morality. That's 100% of all criminal law. I don't see any issue whatsoever. If such behavior is not acceptable to that society to the degree that they criminalize it, then that individual partakes in the activity to his own risk.

Sort of an idiot really, unless he wanted to make a statement. Although I'm not sure the statement, "We should be free to draw children's sexual acts" is a very good one. Sort of depraved. I'm sure someone is going to suggest that the current moral guideline is actually unfair and prejudiced, but that of course is a moral statement, so I don't know where that gets you. Maybe your moral view is somehow more right? I disagree.

Perhaps instead of looking at the issue in the sense that the law is hindering freedom of expression, one might wonder if this individual is expressing anything other than a sickness of the mind. If so, shouldn't we be glad he's stopped? I certainly don't need to see what he's drawing, and I'm fairly certain nobody else does as well.

Or maybe, just maybe, we should get rid of laws that ban harmless actions/are nothing more than censorship.


You argue it's harmless. That's quite an opinion. Such a blanket statement with NOTHING to back it up. Why do you think it's harmless? What if he is hurting himself in a psychological sense by continuing to draw these images? What if someone else sees these images and these become an outlet by which to relieve a perverse sexual pleasure? And then what if that sexual desire is allowed to fester and grow?

Don't give me silly arguments like, "Oh, playing violent videogames doesn't create murderers." 1) sexual activity and the propensity for violence are not the same, 2) I'm sure there's not been a study for the people partaking in these images, and 3) all media slowly, but surely breaks down moral boundaries till things become more acceptable. Here is the clear harm to society (unless you think such behavior is okay - and then yikes), and it's what people call the slippery slope. I'm certain they passed the law to prevent that, and it's a darn good argument. Primarily because it tends to be true.
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Greboruri



Joined: 09 Jul 2003
Posts: 381
Location: QBN, NSW, Australia
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 4:59 pm Reply with quote
CatSword wrote:
And isn't this the same country that used to have countdowns to when a female celebrity turned 16 so she could pose nude on page 3 of The Sun?

More broadly there’s a new conservatism going on in the UK brought to us by groups such as No More Page 3 and Object. They want to take the Page 3 girl out of the Sun (though seemingly aren’t offended by the rest of the paper), harass retailers until they remove “lad’s mags” from their shelves, close down adult shops and strip clubs, censor music videos on Youtube etc. There has been a steady stream of anti-sexualisation articles from the Guardian and ironically the Daily Mail in the last few years. It amuses me to no end that the radical feminist now sound so much like Christian conservatives on the topic of sexuality, especially how female sexuality should be depicted in pop culture.

Essentially if there is a bit of naked female flesh, there’s a problem, though no one can seem to be able to articulate what exactly that problem is except “think of the children” and other arguments that sound like they came from the mouth of Mary Whitehouse. Add in high profiles cases of decades of sexual abuse by the likes of Jimmy Savile and Rolf Harris. You have this real fear of sexuality, in particular other’s sexuality. It’s not really healthy for a society as whole, especially when you’re potentially removing or criminalising that society’s sexually pressure valves.
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ZiharkXVI



Joined: 29 Jan 2009
Posts: 368
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 5:02 pm Reply with quote
Small Waves wrote:
ZiharkXVI wrote:
Perhaps instead of looking at the issue in the sense that the law is hindering freedom of expression, one might wonder if this individual is expressing anything other than a sickness of the mind. If so, shouldn't we be glad he's stopped?


Are you seriously advocating the concept of thought crime? Hahaha oh wow

Also there's no correlation between liking loli/shota and being a pedophile, much less pedophilia and child sexual abuse crimes.


Last time I checked, drawing is action, not thought. And you have no idea what you're talking about with correlations. I don't even know how to respond to that. Are you suggesting there wouldn't be a strong correlation between pedophiles and looking at child porn? Even drawn child porn? I am going to guess there is...
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TsukasaHiiragi



Joined: 24 Feb 2010
Posts: 179
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 5:10 pm Reply with quote
Please don't throw in 'Manga' related porngraphy with actual real life porngraphy here because they are not the same period -

In a sane world, the police/governments would go after all the true pedophiles that actually produce the content, or the sickos that actively seek out young children for the purpose of sex/rape, this is where the proper laws and regulations should be focused.

But it seems we live in an 'insane' world, where possession of doujins whether is in the form of computer drawings or 'fan books' depicting sexual activity of children, who could potentially be of 'consenting' age or not - it doesn't matter because we have idiot lawmakers on a witch hunt that is portraying all anime and manga as lewd and illegal.

I'll tell you this much, since when does a real life girl get harmed by doujins? Never never never - could you argue that in court when a jury is obviously one-sided? I've personally argued for a long time that the entire criminal justice system is broken, laws are being created by people without the expertise in the given areas and the offenders are not being given fair trials because of the lack of expertise of the jury.
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Small Waves



Joined: 30 Jul 2014
Posts: 7
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 5:15 pm Reply with quote
ZiharkXVI wrote:
Last time I checked, drawing is action, not thought.


Being a smart ass will get you nowhere kiddo. Also if what you drew equated to ones desires, then there are a lot of broken hearted hentai artists who are probably dead from the inside out from the anguish of never being able to shoot out half-liter loads every 5 minutes.

Quote:
Are you suggesting there wouldn't be a strong correlation between pedophiles and looking at child porn?


Well good thing that lolicon hentai isn't child pornography then, huh?
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cloud8100



Joined: 30 May 2010
Posts: 550
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 5:20 pm Reply with quote
I'm not even surprised anymore. Thought crime will be coming in for a lot more than this in the near future Evil or Very Mad .

It's gonna happen people...

Confused

And let's not forget, while they charge people for this 'crime' actual rapists are getting 'slaps on the wrist' and sent home.


Last edited by cloud8100 on Sun Oct 19, 2014 5:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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TsukasaHiiragi



Joined: 24 Feb 2010
Posts: 179
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 5:23 pm Reply with quote
cloud8100 wrote:
I'm not even surprised anymore. Thought crime will be coming in for a lot more than this in the near future Evil or Very Mad .

It's gonna happen people...

Confused


That's the scary part, because once we let laws like this pass and learn to accept them, its only a downward spiral.
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ZiharkXVI



Joined: 29 Jan 2009
Posts: 368
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 5:24 pm Reply with quote
Small Waves wrote:
ZiharkXVI wrote:
Last time I checked, drawing is action, not thought.


Being a smart ass will get you nowhere kiddo. Also if what you drew equated to ones desires, then there are a lot of broken hearted hentai artists who are probably dead from the inside out from the anguish of never being able to shoot out half-liter loads every 5 minutes.

Quote:
Are you suggesting there wouldn't be a strong correlation between pedophiles and looking at child porn?


Well good thing that lolicon hentai isn't child pornography then, huh?


Honestly, you were awfully sarcastic yourself. I merely pointed out you were wrong. It's not thought.

And you brought up lolicon hentai. When I read the news story, it was basically child porn. Just drawn. I'm not sure if there's too many differences between them, but honestly don't care. Parse out the differences to your heart's content. Both seem equally sick to me. Little anime girls of some questionable age having sex for a person's benefit? That is wrong. I'd be on board with censoring that. If you don't find it to be wrong, we'll have to just disagree. But understand if you truly believed it was wrong and dangerous to society, then you shouldn't have any qualms about criminalizing it.


Last edited by ZiharkXVI on Sun Oct 19, 2014 5:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 6284
Location: Katy, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 5:25 pm Reply with quote
Oh boy and here we go, another case of drawn children being in danger when they're not real at all. Rolling Eyes

Unless it's child porn, then the person shouldn't be facing any criminal charges. I hope the court and the law will be smart about this.
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Nemo_N



Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 272
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 5:26 pm Reply with quote
ZiharkXVI wrote:
You argue it's harmless. That's quite an opinion. Such a blanket statement with NOTHING to back it up. Why do you think it's harmless? What if he is hurting himself in a psychological sense by continuing to draw these images? What if someone else sees these images and these become an outlet by which to relieve a perverse sexual pleasure? And then what if that sexual desire is allowed to fester and grow?


Lots of "what if" there. This is just fear-mongering.

ZiharkXVI wrote:
1) sexual activity and the propensity for violence are not the same


If they are both fake, they are the same; not real.

ZiharkXVI wrote:

3) all media slowly, but surely breaks down moral boundaries till things become more acceptable.


If that were true, violent video games would have caused a massive eruption in violence by now, and that hasn't happened.
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Rederoin



Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 1427
Location: Europa
PostPosted: Sun Oct 19, 2014 5:26 pm Reply with quote
ZiharkXVI wrote:


You argue it's harmless. That's quite an opinion. Such a blanket statement with NOTHING to back it up.

The burden of proof is not with me, its with those who claim its harmfull.

Quote:
Why do you think it's harmless? What if he is hurting himself in a psychological sense by continuing to draw these images?

Who cares? Thats his responsibility, not the governments. Or do you want to live in a nanny state?

Quote:
What if someone else sees these images and these become an outlet by which to relieve a perverse sexual pleasure?

Who cares?

Quote:

And then what if that sexual desire is allowed to fester and grow?

Proof it happens.


Quote:
2) I'm sure there's not been a study for the people partaking in these images

No you admit you have no proof?

Quote:
Here is the clear harm to society (unless you think such behavior is okay - and then yikes),

People should be free to what they want without harming anybody else. So yes, think such behaviour is okay, i'm 100% against thought crime and censorship.

Quote:

and it's what people call the slippery slope. I'm certain they passed the law to prevent that, and it's a darn good argument. Primarily because it tends to be true.

You mean the slippery slope that leads to more censorship?

Its a retarded argument, thats what it is.


Last edited by Rederoin on Sun Oct 19, 2014 5:27 pm; edited 1 time in total
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