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El Hermano
Joined: 24 Feb 2019
Posts: 450
Location: Texas
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 Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:58 pm
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| whiskeyii wrote: | | I think the root of the problem isn't so much that "like" shouldn't be used--it's that this whole translation, top-to-bottom, doesn't feel like an English translation for an English speaking audience. Rather, it's an English translation for a *Japanese* English-speaking audience.. As detailed previously, the way "like" is being used in the two languages has different connotations; in English, it's to save face in case of possible rejection, whereas in Japanese, it's because it's considered too bold and direct to say "love", but in a way that seems to indicate impropriety rather than embarrassment. But the Japanese equivalent is "like", so that's what the translator stuck to, context and audience be damned. (See also the previous discussion about the use of "leftist" for "sect" and what that means to an English speaker vs. a Japanese speaker.) |
Those two examples contradict each other, don't they? If 'love' instead of 'like' is because 'like' is considered just as extreme in Japan as 'love' is in English, then 'sect' should be changed to 'leftist', because in Japan 'sect' specifically refers to left-wing people. After-all, a generic word like 'terrorst' has a very specific emotional response to the average American, especially now in a post 9/11 world when this translation was done as opposed to the old one in the 90s. It wouldn't get the original Japanese meaning across, and considering the show itself was heavily influenced by incidents like the Tokyo sarin attack it stands that the difference should be elaborated on for context. Or at the very least 'left-wing terrorist' or something.
Anyway. The whole Shinji and Kaworu thing seems really overblown. The truth of the matter is Kaworu was a minor bit character who only showed up in one episode and only became popular after the fact. Most of the fandom he has stems from spin offs and merchandise, but using spin offs and merchandise as proof of anything isn't how it works. The whole point of supplemental material is to have fun, joke, and provide fanservice. That's why there's so many AU manga spin offs that are spoofs or comedies, like Shinji Ikari Rising Project. You're not supposed to treat them seriously or as canon. II's like citing Rock Lee SD or Yamcha Isekai as credible sources for Naruto and Dragonball lore.
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whiskeyii
Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 2250
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Posted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:47 pm
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| El Hermano wrote: | |
Those two examples contradict each other, don't they? If 'love' instead of 'like' is because 'like' is considered just as extreme in Japan as 'love' is in English, then 'sect' should be changed to 'leftist', because in Japan 'sect' specifically refers to left-wing people. After-all, a generic word like 'terrorst' has a very specific emotional response to the average American, especially now in a post 9/11 world when this translation was done as opposed to the old one in the 90s. It wouldn't get the original Japanese meaning across, and considering the show itself was heavily influenced by incidents like the Tokyo sarin attack it stands that the difference should be elaborated on for context. Or at the very least 'left-wing terrorist' or something. |
I actually think the emotional reaction an English (or specifically US viewer) would have to the word “terrorist” is a lot closer to how a Japanese person would react to “sect”; the US, at least, doesn’t have a long history of left-leaning domestic terrorism (the most notable ones I could find on Wikipedia are steeped in survivalist and/or anti-government ideologies rather than left-leaning politics). And I get why knowing what kind of ideology the terrorists hold is important for a Japanese audience, given the Sarin gas attacks (though to my mind, that group seems way more like a cult than anything else), but I think trying to impart that knowledge on US viewers isn’t going to land as well because we don’t automatically equate left leaning politics with domestic terrorism. We *do* however, have a really nasty gut punch “oh shit” reaction to the word “terrorist”, which seems likely what the equivalent line in Japanese was aiming for.
But again, that’s all hypothetical, and I’m pretty positive that most professional translators aim for what I just described: translating the experience or the spirit of one language into another. I strongly suspect that Khara had their hands all over this translation, and just favored a more literal approach to somewhat mixed results. I have the same feelings about using “baumkuchen” as Shinji’s go-to German word; it’s not wrong, exactly, but a Japanese person would be a lot more familiar with a baumkuchen because of its presence during Christmas than a US viewer would, as in the US we’d probably default to sauerkraut or bratwurst. Just all these little touches that make me feel like this wasn’t written with a native English speaking audience in mind.
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Egan Loo
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 1326
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Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:24 am
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| jellybeanbandit wrote: | | An English viewer is probably familiar with Antifa though, which is recognized as the largest domestic terrorist group in the US and it's rooted in left-wing politics. |
May you cite a source that recognizes Antifa "as the largest domestic terrorist group in the US"?
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GATSU
Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 15364
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Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:15 am
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