Forum - View topicFan service: Is it necessary?
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gaminganimator
Posts: 18 |
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When I think of some of the greatest animated movies and television shows I have seen, none of them are very mature or sexual in nature. What I believe some people are saying about fan service and other mature content in anime or any medium is: it depends. That is very true, it depends on the person, the series, and the message that gets to the viewer. Whether you like it or not, fan service, as well as violence and bad language, are here to say. It is our duty, as the audience, to let the people up high know what we want and what we don't want by choosing not to buy or watch this content. I'm not saying all sex and violence is bad, it may be necessary in some cases, but if you think it goes too far, it's alright to stop watching. To each his own.
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Ikari1
 Posts: 531 Location: London |
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Now that you lay down those points about evangelion being heavilly influenced by the themes of sex and or being close to one another, i have to say I agree with you up to a point. Your argument is good and I particularly agreed about the shinji and asuka comments.The hedgehog theroy was the term I was looking for in this case. I've both been converted by your opinion and not at the same time. I''ll explain better in few days.
I was under the impression that the naked form also represents purity in many cases. An example of this in action so to speak is episode 200 of sailor moon; and yes I watched them all. During the end of eva I think this as a symbolism of purity was also one of the reasons the characters ended up naked towards the end. Whist the scene with rei straddling shinji is without a doubt a sexual image, I thought it was both neccessary and very clever as it also makes the charcaters seem so much more vunerable in that state. Shinji later rests his head in Rei's lap. I thought that rather than a blunt sexual image, this rather reflected his vunerability at that point also. Your comments about the haruhi scene made spew coffee over my keyboard for the 2nd time this week. Haruhi is a tyrant and thus completly shameless in everything is all I can say about this one. This scene as I read it in the light novel goes further spoiler[with haruhi's hands going towards the waistband of mikirus skirt before Kyon steps in].This does lead me to believe that this scene whilst being simple eyecandy/fanservice in nature does kinda of suggest something abouut haruhi's sexual persona. she's bisexual basically. That scene when I remembered it made me grin as I remember it as a typical Haruhi thing to do. No regard for others. she just does as she pleases. Forgive me, you have raised quite a few points that I agree with and would like to discuss in more detail but I've got to finish yet another essay on national cinema by tommorow and its 2 in the morning now so I'll reply in more detail in a day or so once I've got time on my hands to think about a proper responce. I still disagree with the misato argument by the way but i dont have time to properly go into why i think the fanservice is highly releavnt to her character. I will in a day or so. Cheers Dean |
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Dorcas_Aurelia
 Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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You and a number of people you watched the show with have dirty minds. Does seeing someone suck ice cream dripping from the bottom of a sugar cone because it's leaking make you think of sex too?
You're moving beyond fanservice and just complaining about cliches now. How about characters shouting the names of their attacks, do you hate that too? Do we really need this much hate in a thread? |
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Keonyn
 Subscriber Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
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Yeah, this seems to almost go in to the territory of nitpicking for the sake of nitpicking. Vibrant hair colors that span the color spectrum are a staple of anime, and have been for a long long time. It's a solid part of the art style and I don't really have a problem with it; and I'm one of those people who also dislikes excesses and overly abundant fanservice in the titles I watch. |
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flyingm
 Posts: 19 Location: Chinatown, the big one |
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Fear Ghoul, me have questions for you.
To help me understand what you're saying more better. 1. Do you hate fan service because you feel that it comes at the cost of quality shows? 2. Although you've said that nudity or sexuality ,if used artistically, is acceptable, it seems that your view is that anything having to do with nudity or sexuality is pretty much unnecassary or innapropriate. Is that true? I'm not really a fan of ... fan service but it doesn't piss me off. I wouldn't consider it a blight. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18248 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Wow, that's reading quite a bit into that scene. That thought did not even pop into my mind when I watched it.
Um, the fact that Konata {Fixed typo -- abunai} looked decidedly underage for being a high school student was part of the joke that parodied the lolicon fetish, as is reinforced by her very deliberate choice of swimsuit in the beach episode. Nearly everything in Lucky Star, including the character designs, is a parody of something else, and if you're not getting that then it's no wonder you hated the series. I've already freely admitted in reviews that it's a very hit-or-miss series, but geez, it's not The Plague.
See Keonyn's comments.
That's certainly one interpretation of many possible ones. Whether or not it's the correct interpretation depends 100% on viewpoint. I have watched the series several times and while I've always acknowledged certain sexual elements to it, I have never walked away with the notion that the series' symbolism is "all about sex." Angst, alienation, and isolation have always seemed to be the predominant underlying themes to me. |
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abunai
Old Regular
 Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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This one just begs for a Scriptural response:
I've always been very fond of those passages. Very useful in these circumstances. 
- abunai Bible-thumpin' pulpit-poundin' preacher-man! |
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RangFlash
Posts: 24 |
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I didn't say fan service was pointless on all levels. I just said that it isn't good. By its nature, fan service just isn't good when looking at a broader perspective of cinema. It's very reminiscent of sexual exploitation in grind house films, which are admittedly bad, yet still entertaining on a less profound level.
Not necessarily. Not everyone finds fan service funny. Whether it is funny in Gurren Lagann is strictly a matter of opinion. Personally, I don't find it all that funny. I'm sure most people who are not anime fans (why am I bringing them into this? Well, because I think it's the best way to remain open-minded while thinking of anime) will see constant fan service and think "give me a break." |
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Ikari1
Posts: 531 Location: London |
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@Rang Flash
I don't like to split hairs but your origional quote says other wise. Specifically your use of the word 'all'. Your origional quote and the new improved 'quote' you have presented to me contradict each other. It's not a problem if you have changed your view on something but just say that. Ok so you dont think its pointless on all levels. So then you will take back your origional comment that all fan service is bad then will you? Such a blanket comment (if you did indeed mean the things you wrote) is again in my view slightly narrow minded but I dont want to have to explain why I think this all over again. I dont think the comment ' all fanservice is bad fanservice' is a fair or a particularly mature way of looking at the topic. It's your opinion however so it's a valid argument still. I will continue to get the arse over comments such as this, as despite them being valid opinions, they to me show a lack of proper thought process. The difference between making a snap comment and looking at the bigger picture and then commenting, is vast.
Yep that it is. Once again I've been sidetracked from my work, I'm bloody useless when it comes to will power. |
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RangFlash
Posts: 24 |
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"Pointless" and "unnecessary" are two different things. They may be similar or related in some ways, but they are different. Something that is not necessary, like fan service, can still have a point, however bad it may be.
Necessity can also be divided into categories. My first quote was referring to art as a whole. The point of fan service is for commercial reasons. Things like this aren't necessary in art, but may be necessary for business. So in terms of art, I don't think fan service is necessary. But it's not pointless, because everything has its place somewhere (maybe so we can have trash to compare to our treasures). |
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Ikari1
Posts: 531 Location: London |
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You used the word 'bad', not unnessesary as if you had used unnessesary* or worded your view differently I would not have been able to misinterpret your views. I was the one that felt the use of pointless adequetly described your view of fanservice but this was based off the crude remark that 'all fanservice is bad fanservice'. If since then you think this was a mistake; on your part, to use the terminology you used then again, thats fine and we can stop the splitting of hairs here.
It's not doing any good to discuss the different understandings of pointless and unnesesary. At this point I'm just going to assume that what your trying to say is that not all fanservice is bad fanservice in that some of it is nessesary and is therefore good fanservice. You cant have it both ways. You cant say all fan service is bad and then go on to say, ' oh by the way, I actually meant that some of it is alright'. I think I get the gist of what you meant though now. Last edited by Ikari1 on Tue Aug 12, 2008 11:34 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Imperialkat
 Posts: 227 |
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Eh. Pardon me for being apathetic here but I don't see the point in grabbing the pitchforks over things like moe and fanservice. On the latter though, I feel that fanservice doesn't detract from a good show--sometimes it helps. In Gurren Lagann the fanservice contributes (sucessfully) to the crazyness of the show, while in Ghost in the Shell it shows the difference between Makoto and normal women in that she doesn't give a damn about little things (like wardrobe). If a good show has fanservice it doesn't turn it into a not-so-good show, and removing it wouldn't necessarily make the show better (it might make it worse).
That said, fanservice is problem when it becomes the plot. I'm sure you guys could come up with tons of examples of this, so I won't bother. In these cases, however, fanservice is necessary because without it there is no show. Now, you may not think of that as a major loss, but they keep making more Gundams for a reason. Ramble, ramble. |
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Ikari1
Posts: 531 Location: London |
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It's a good way to excersise the mind; argumentative and opinion based discussion. Basically its good to try and persuade the other person that your argument is stronger. That and I just dont agree with a certain type of comment that keeps popping up in the moe and fanservice thread. I've got something out of it as I've now been persuaded through these arguments that Evangelion has stronger sexual themes in it than i first realised. I have more to say on that matter but Ill do that later on tonight. I disagree about the negative feedback ghost in a shell is recieving with regards to motoko. Its symbolism and charicterisation at its best, not pure fanservice. I see no difference with motoko than with the matrix and Trinity in that skin tight pvc they wore all the time. I always thought that motoko's lack of clothing was mainly due to the fact that it gets in way when she is working. |
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Fear Ghoul
 Posts: 65 |
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I don't know how else to explain. She makes a masturbation gesture in reference to how she gets the creamy filling from a phallic shaped food item. How am I not supposed to watch this and notice?
Well, I was asked to justify my dislike of Lucky Star, and I gave my reasons. The character design can be considered an integral part of the fanservice. After all, I don't think they'd put too many small breasted girls in hentai would they? And having so many strange hair colours is not standard as far as my experience goes. Lucky Star just takes it too far.
How did you know?
I feel that fanservice comes at the expense of artistic credibility. Their primary goal becomes not the presentation of artistic capability but rather making the most amount of money. I would much rather they balance these two opposing concepts by creating series where the sex and violence is actually integral to the plot, theme, and characters of the show, rather than just being there for broader appeal. For instance certain examples of this done well are in the Bourne films, or in The Dark Knight, or Ninja Scroll (with one exception), or in the Hellsing OVA's. It's not impossible for them to do more balanced shows like these, but they just choose not to.
Any kind of sexual or violent content is acceptable or even welcome but only within context. If it doesn't satisfy either plot, character, or theme points credibly then it is not acceptable and is unnecessary as far as I'm concerned.
I am often cynical to the concept that a company can parody or even deride a certain fetish while at the same time make a lot of money off of it...by coincidence. I should actually ask people to check out my top ten list of favourite anime so they can see what kind of anime stuff I'm into. The number one spot is occupied by Boogiepop Phantom, a series which pretty much says a proverbial f*** you to all the normal cliches and conventions in anime and goes off on its own method of storytelling. |
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Elfen12
 Posts: 479 Location: Bay Area |
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This is a stupid thing for me to say like this, but i disagree and agree with you here. The part i disagree with you here, and you sort of mentioned it, is that ... somehow or another, people may conciously or unconcciously see that fan service is an artistic element as the anime as a whole. (thast more of me assuming things). Where i agree with you here is the fact that it, to me, takes away a large chunk of what else the anime has to offer. I have a hard time looking past the "art" of fan service. In my opinion, the energy and time they use to make fan service the way it is, and making all the characters the way they are, could be used on something else... not to say its more meaningful, but something that can convey some sort of point... instead of a guy and a girl tripping over a rock and throw some magic in there, and they happen to land RIGHT ON TOP OF EACH OTHER with his hand RIGHT ... THERE!... what are the odds... it happpened 3 times already today. Perhaps an over exageration and i went to far, but i still hold my opinion. Some people may see it as expressing and using art differnetly, but i see it as an annoyance, that unfortunatley i have a hard time looking past it. Whether or not its necessary or not, to me, is another question. -Elfen12- |
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