Forum - View topicNEWS: TV Tokyo to Stream Naruto via Crunchyroll Worldwide
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Primus
 Posts: 2775 Location: Toronto |
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Hey, maybe I can actually check out the Gintama anime when this starts. Since it seems R1 is a bit allergic to it. As long as Viz keeps getting my books I suppose.
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Pepperidge
 Posts: 1104 Location: British Columbia, Canada |
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Which would be the majority of people.
And that would be the minority of people. I don't know where you got the idea that most fans are "hardcore" fansub watchers, especially since Crunchyroll gets about 13 or 14 times as much traffic as one of the most well known anime BT trackers, judging by their Alexa.com rankings. All that counts is that they can attract the vast majority of casual viewers - there are always going to be a few leftover no matter how good a job they do. They'd probably be better off just not worrying about that subset.
Integrating commercials into a downloaded file is a terrible idea. Can you imagine how restrictive such a file would be? I think it's best we avoid that kind of DRM-infested mayhem. I don't think that anyone who is adept with file sharing would approve of such a thing. And streaming quality will improve. Everyone just needs to be patient. |
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Greed1914
 Posts: 4456 |
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I think you have the right idea, Pepperidge. For many people, staying within legal means is worth a bit of sacrifice. Hopefully if they really enjoy a show and if quality is that important they'll shell out a bit of money.
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walw6pK4Alo
 Posts: 9322 |
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You can't use Alexa as a source, because it only tracks the sites that people navigate to if they have the Alexa toolbar installed. And it makes sense. Idiots install the toolbar and stream their anime, while not quite so stupid people avoid both of those. Either way, the majority you speak are probably tweens or younger and couldn't afford to spend money on this or DVDs anyway. And streaming quality won't improve, because then every single stream will consume more bandwidth from the host, which is why they keep it crappy. I'm not gonna be seeing any 720p, crystal-clear, non-artifacting streams for a few years. |
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Cetus-kun
 Posts: 139 |
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Wow this is great news. I've been wanting to see Gintama for a long time. It's great to see the official companies putting stuff up. I haven't been watching many fansubs lately and I've been starting to feel even less morally justified than I once did about them. Hope they put up the latest episodes of Bleach as they air as well. Anyone think one of the other mentioned series is Soul Eater?
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pparker
 Posts: 1185 Location: Florida |
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The model will be a success in that it will be viable, will send some money back to the producers and may have some effect on fansubs. Won't be a rousing success in the current culture, though. I've paid a couple times for online streamed episodes, and did not continue because:
1.) the quality sucks big time even on my 24" LCD (much less my 42" plasma where I watch anime). 2.) the episodes can't be downloaded legitimately. 3.) the price is comparable for crappy quality small video to the cost of DVD episodes at discounted prices. All these conditions would have to be corrected simultaneously for me to purchase online episodes. The quality would have to be DVD quality minimum, and all episodes be downloadable (in case I wanted to re-watch before DVDs were manufactured). I would never pay a per-episode price comparable to DVD, since I would receive none of the physical media or materials, and would not receive the dub. The producer's manufacturing cost is zero in streamed format anyway. Preferably, I would pay a monthly subscription fee per "channel" of anime. The primary reason for that is, just as with any entertainment media, only about 10% of it (at best) is worth owning on DVD, so I'm not going to pay DVD prices to watch every show, just like I wouldn't pay $2.00 to watch a first-run episode of U.S. TV. I suspect the producers would make more money on a channel model in any case. The fan base could widely support about $30.00 per month, being maybe 3 channels at $10.00 each. By showing channels full of shows, they would expand the subscription base significantly, but also expand or establish the fan base for more obscure shows, thereby increasing chances for profitability on R1 DVDs. While this current deal is a step in the right direction, it is only a small beginning step, not a solution. Of course, it may just be a solution ahead of its time. As generations go by, more people may be watching anime on their computer or, god forbid, on their iPhone. CR likely knows all this and have positioned themselves to bet on that future. Their ad-based revenue very probably will plummet on January 8, but since they are VC-backed now, they can operate for years at a loss, especially being a very low physical overhead operation. The best that could happen is the producers discover that a channelized streaming service at fansub quality does not destroy DVD sales. I am a collector. I like physical media. I watch anime on my big screen TV. The recent demo survey on ANN shows me to be in the majority, though ANN users may not represent the majority of anime fans. Once the producers put out fansub quality video that is downloadable for a reasonable price, then we'll know the answer for the R1 industry. Edit: The advertising model may return higher revenue than the cable channel model, but I have a very hard time watching anime with commercials. I stopped watching commercial TV entirely quite some time ago, and now I remember why 
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Greed1914
Posts: 4456 |
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That's why Pepperidge said "Everyone needs to be patient." Yes, streaming will eventually catch up. It's already gotten better than it used to be in many cases. Also, the tweens you speak of tend to stream regardless, so there is a good chance they'll stick with the site. If higher quality were that important, streaming never would have taken off like it did. |
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eaglestorm
 Posts: 133 |
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What are all the 1-liners regarding statistics? 80% of all statistics quoted to prove a point are made up on the spot. 43% of all statistics are worthless. Tons more. Statistics can be manipulated by easily neglecting data that doesn't prove one's point. You are comparing anime (a niche type of entertainment) BT trackers to Crunchyroll (a site that offers videos from many different sources). Not everyone who visit CR goes there to watch anime. Also, you just assume one form of distribution model, BT. And as walw6pK4Alo pointed out, the flaw in using only Alexa as an indicator, which is hardly a comprehensive indicator. I'm not arguing your points, only questioning your usage of statistics. |
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hentai4me
 Posts: 1313 Location: England. Robin is so Cute! |
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One thing I'd like to point out.
Not everyone cares about the quality. As long as I can see who is who and what is what and the art as art and read the subs then I don't care. HQ fansubs? Never bothered with them (unless they were the only ones available), blu-ray? HDDVD? remastered DVD's? Not for my money you wont. You know the old transformers movie (with awesome Stan Bush soundtrack highlights!) I've got that on VHS and a VHS player...and that is the only reason I still have a VHS 'cause I don't need to go out and buy a DVD version of it; I can still watch it around once every 4 months on VHS (yes yes...), hell it's the only reason I still have a TV... The streams on Veoh are great and the quality of the legit stuff on CR is perfectly fine, true BOST is better but they have no damned content (and over 6000 registered members...of which I am proud to be the 72nd!) so they still fail (I haven't spent ANY of the 500 point I bought when I signed up...the same week they went live). Basically I want content over quality, let me pay you a decent amount (I'm from the UK, I'm used to being gouged), say £20/month (or the price of a single anime DVD on the high street) to have unlimited access to subbed legitimate streams of a wide variety of shows(and I mean not just a wide variety of shounen jump shows or generic 'shoujo 3 return of the female role model from the dark ages'), as long as I have a passable internet access (i.e: not New Zealand...) then I can watch the streams and I'll willingly pay AND have ad supported content (so long as they are no more than a 15 second slot at the start and end, unskippable (veoh does this without making it impossible to skip through the actual episode) and then ads in the page headers/borders/etc). You see I want to watch anime, I want to watch a lot of different anime, I want to make it possible for companies to continue making anime, I want them to feel confident in taking a risk in making that 'wacky new idea' or that 'artsy high end thing' and not just pander to the lowest borderline lolicon just to stay alive. World of Warcraft has around 11 million players, each paying around £10 a month for basically unlimited access, the game has constant company support and making big games like that is MASSIVELY expensive, to keep supporting it is also very expensive. They offer; in a different medium; what I want from anime companies and if they can get a fraction of 11 million anime fans world wide paying out every month then there is no reason for anime to worry again. £20 a month + ads = unlimited streams (with a library of shows that doesn't time out, I should be able to watch it 10 years down the line at just the same support as a show released last week) of a wide variety of anime subbed and/or dubbed. Who would pay that? Who would pay more? I'd pay more as long as it wasn't excessive. Last edited by hentai4me on Mon Nov 17, 2008 6:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Pepperidge
Posts: 1104 Location: British Columbia, Canada |
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I wasn't trying to tout hard statistics or make sure my references were well cited. I was simply pointing out an idle observation I made from one specific website. I wasn't aware that the numbers there were only calculated via users who have a specific application installed on their computer. I guess I'll stop using that as a basis for anything, especially if people are going to jump on me the second I type out numbers rather than letters.
In any case, I definitely get the impression that online streaming is more widely embraced than downloading and all the technicalities associated with it. With people I know personally, the tendency is to use sites like Crunchyroll rather than bothering with BT or IRC. Not to mention that streaming attracts a wider audience than those who would want to even bother with stuff like that to begin with. |
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hentai4me
Posts: 1313 Location: England. Robin is so Cute! |
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The thing is numbers are considered more factual than words.
Start throwing numbers from any given source and you seem to be stating a 'fact' to people, unless they have a counter to your 'facts' then your argument holds weight (which tends to be the death of someone without facts...). Basically it is as you say, post numbers and everyone jumps on you, post numbers with strong support and a well reasoned argument behind it and you either win the argument or get major 'argument points'. Numbers are dangerous to the other players so they need to destroy them quickly before they become a real threat. |
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edzieba
Posts: 704 |
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Worldwide streaming promptly after airing: very good
Crunchyroll video quality: very, very bad (even the paid-for downloads are quite frankly awful). |
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TheTheory
 Posts: 1029 Location: Central PA |
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I'm not quite sure how that could be implemented though without being a huge headache. The thing that would keep it free is the commercials aspect.. however, I can't imagine how they would get a count on how many times a commercial is seen... unless they would create their own media player for it that would actually keep track. They could get a download count... but that is about all. And I would guess a download count would not be enough for advertisers to be willing to assume that their commercial was seen. I don't know... maybe there is technology out there to deal with those issues. |
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Vulcannis
Posts: 41 |
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No they're not. Physical media is for collecting. I like doing that, but can only justify it for my favourite titles. There are a ton of other titles that I wish to own but not take up shelf space or spend as much on.
There's whining and there's constructive criticism. Guess which you are doing? A lot of use like watching high-quality video on our nice HDTV's, without wasting bandwidth each time. And I imagine many of us can also afford to buy the media as well. We may be the minority but streaming doesn't satisfy our desires at all.
I remember looking at the specs for the downloads when they were announced and they were seriously sub-par compared to the average fansub. Even ignoring the DRM thing which is a deal breaker for many people (I want to own something, not rent it.) Though frankly after seeing the series (Aegis and Druaga or something?) that Gonzo tried this with, I'm not surprised it didn't work out too well for them. Now with Naruto we'll hopefully see real numbers. I really hope this turns out well for everyone involved. If the numbers people keep throwing around for streaming are true, this could be a significant shot in the arm for the industry. Given the economy right now they need it. And if everything works well maybe they'll consider producing the product that I would like to buy. |
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Zoe
 Posts: 898 Location: Austin |
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Youtube (and other streaming services) have had overlay advertisements during videos for a long time now. |
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