Forum - View topicMaria the Virgin Witch (TV).
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Harleyquin
Posts: 2897 |
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Here's another thought: Maria isn't taking Michael very seriously regarding his threat to remove her powers upon loss so she gets more excited about the loss of virginity than on the consequences.
After all, she gets away with summoning monsters just by covering Ezekial's eyes. If she was really afraid of Michael's judgment, she'd be more wary of Ezekial's role. |
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ChibiKangaroo
 Posts: 2941 |
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It's not just the content of the sex talk that was out of character. It was also the context.
Viv comes over and says: "Hey Maria, why are you stopping all these wars? Wars are good. We like wars, because they make us rich! You wanna be rich like us? We need more wars. War is awesome Maria, don't you know? Why are you stopping us from having tons and tons of wars? Help me get more wars, and I'll let you join up with us so you can have lots of gold too!" Maria says: "No! I don't like wars. People die. I don't want gold! I just wanna help people, because I'm a saintly witch. I just wanna do the right thing all the time and help people. I even tried to save a village that despised me. And after they rejected my help and all perished, I go to their graves and mourn them! See? I'm a saintly witch!" Viv says: "What are you, some kind of virgin? How could you not love wars and gold? We need more wars and gold nyaow!" Maria says: "Yes, I'm a virgin. And by the way, if I have sex, I can't use my powers any more so I wouldn't be able to stop wars and you'd be able to have as much wars and gold as you want!" Viv says: "OOOoooo, goodie! Let's have sex right now then! You need to have sex right now Maria, so we can have more wars and gold! Trust me, you'll like it! Plus, I get more wars and gold!" Maria says: "Hmmmm..... sex? I'll like it? Hmmm... maybe... show me this sex you are talking about. I'm open to this." |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23876 |
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Yeah, I agree there is a disconnect between Maria losing her powers along with her V-card and her seeming willingness to at least ponder the possibility. The only thing I can think of is that maybe she doesn't really believe she'd lose her powers if she did the nasty, but the show certainly hasn't explicitly indicated that.
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Harleyquin
Posts: 2897 |
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The way I interpreted the context is a little different from what's been presented. When pressed about the situation Maria was under, it was Ezekiel who did the explaining. After laughing at the (presumed) predicament Maria is under, Viv suggested Maria lose her virginity straight away as a solution to the witches' conundrum of Maria always making a mess of the witches' earnings on the battlefield.
The (comical) exchange that occurs afterwards also appears to be half in jest, since Ezekiel wants nothing of the situation while Priapos becomes the unwilling target of Viv before she discovers his "deficiency". Through it all, the only thing that appears weird is Maria not protesting the consequences of losing her virginity (her powers). You could explain it away with Maria not really taking Michael's threat seriously (look at the manner in which she treats Ezekiel as an unwanted 3rd familiar). Another interpretation would be to see Maria's reaction as yet another facet of the walking paradox she is (more worried about relations with the opposite sex when she's forced to place her distaste for violence on a global level on a scale with her enforced virginal status). |
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ChibiKangaroo
Posts: 2941 |
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This is exactly the point of my summary above. I didn't use the words "war" and "gold" so many times by mere coincidence. Maria confirmed that she was a virgin who wasn't able to have sex without losing her powers, and Viv immediately started saying she should have sex so that she wouldn't be able to stop the other witches from having wars and gold anymore. Maria then inexplicably seemed open to this. This, coming from the girl who immediately rejected a truce with the church and added insult to injury by dumping their precious apple cider right in front of their representatives. So, which is it? Is she hard-headed and intent on upholding her beliefs, or is she an indicisive little girl who thinks sex could be cool even if it meant she could never help the citizenry again? That's the problem with the way she was presented there.
The simplest, most straightforward explanation is almost certainly the correct one in this instance, since neither of those interpretations has been evidenced thus far. In fact, the whole reason she keeps stopping Ezekiel from seeing the magic she is doing is because she is frightened by the threat. If she didn't think it was real, she wouldn't give a damn what Ezekiel saw. The most obvious explanation is that the writers decided it would be fun to have a comical sleazy scene with Viv trying to force herself on Priapus, only to find out that he has no penis. |
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jroa
Posts: 538 |
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Except Maria did not literally say this. She never asked Viv to show her anything, so that's not an accurate representation. Honestly, I really think you're overthinking a comedic scene and even slightly confusing things more than necessary. You can choose to interpret her reaction as being open to losing her virginity right then and there, but I got a different impression. Viv was the one driving the conversation, not Maria. Since she had already rejected the argument about earning more gold and so on, the sudden change of subject caught Maria unprepared, which may have briefly caused her mind to wander in the process, but should not be interpreted as Maria not actually caring. For me, a momentary distraction is more than enough of an explanation and does not require to forcefully dissect the character for that.
Honestly, based on the rest of her behavior, I don't think that's applicable to the situation.
Maria does sincerely want to uphold her beliefs. But she is both younger and less experienced than, say, the people who are having this conversation on an online message board. There might be a part of her that is interested in sex, because she's at the biological (as opposed to legal, I assume) age to start thinking about that, but that doesn't mean she is inherently careless or indecisive to the point of throwing away her beliefs, at least not at this stage of the story. It is not like young human girls, whether real or fictional, are supposed to be some sort of artificially intelligent robots who will go "warning, this does not compute!" as soon as something doesn't follow strict logic for a minute. Emotional sensibilities can momentarily distract one's reason, even more so during a sequence meant as comedy. |
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Harleyquin
Posts: 2897 |
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Did she seem open to it? I remember the scene as Ezekiel doing the explaining for her and then Viv letting rip with the "lose your virginity strategy" without Maria confirming it was true. It looked to me that Maria was more flustered about the mention of sex as a topic rather than the more serious consequences behind the threat. Much of the dialogue she contributed sounded like someone trying to evade the issue in a very poor manner.
As I see it, Maria is aware of Michael's threat, but she's paying minimal lip service to it because she doesn't 100% take it seriously. Don't forget that in last week's episode she spoiler[summoned a monster while Ezekiel's back was turned and then denied doing the deed.] It's similar behaviour to mischievous children pushing the limits imposed on them by parents without actually flouting the rules. Your "most obvious explanation" is no more obvious to me than what I've proposed. You might well be right, but there's equally little evidence to prove your assertion either. What is certain is Maria has many contradictions inherent in her character, how these are resolved may or may not interest viewers who have made it up to this point. |
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ChibiKangaroo
Posts: 2941 |
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I guess people have a hard time understanding satirical summary on the internet, but yea, that pretty much captures her response. I was frankly taken aback that she didn't say "NO! I'm trying to do something important here, so please go away!" Instead, she clearly indicated that she was interested in seeing what Viv was planning.
Actually, I'm not overthinking anything. That's why I've said more than once that the simplest, most obvious explanation is the most accurate one. You seem to agree with me, since you are calling it a "comedic scene." Great! I'll even quote myself just so you can see we are on the same page.
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HaruhiToy
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The idea of someone considering age of consent laws in a representation of Medieval Europe through a 21st century lens actually caused me to google up the subject:
Don't you worry. Maria is legal. For that matter Anne is legal. Now I feel like I just broke some law just by reading that. |
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Galap
Moderator
 Posts: 2354 |
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Interesting implication from Ezekiel in episode 4:
It seems that in this world, humanity literally creates its own deities (as opposed to conceptually), and that deities can ascend into prominence by gaining popularity, and can come from nondeity entities. What this means is that if Maria gains enough followers, she can become a god, and her personality will become the main cosmic force in the world. It seems like the current rule of Yaweh came about some time in the past, and caused the previous 'pagan' gods to fade into antiquity. I think Yaweh may fade like his predecessors did and give way to Maria. This is really cool! |
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Agent355
 Posts: 5113 Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready... |
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^I don't think it's cool, because the idea that gods are created via people's worship is standard Shinto stuff (or at least I've seen it in many anime before, most recently Noragami). That tells me that a show ostensibly about Christianity has very little to do with Christianity (or perhaps doesn't understand Christianity), which is kind of disappointing, actually.
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Harleyquin
Posts: 2897 |
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Why should the show be so hide-bound to "traditional" Christian religious belief? Ezekiel's comment was off-hand and not part of a detailed thesis into what "becoming a God" entailed. The other thing which has dropped off people's radar a bit is the mysterious boar-like entity that was conversing with Maria at the end of episode 1; if that's a manifestation of the old religions before the in-series "Church" then there's no reason why Maria can't join its ranks if people believe in her enough to get "critical mass". |
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ChibiKangaroo
Posts: 2941 |
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You're assuming that the boar wasn't satan or some other fallen angel. |
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Agent355
Posts: 5113 Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready... |
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I'm all too familiar with anime picking and choosing religious imagery without any understanding of it or meaning behind it because it's "cool." Rage of Bahumut, to choose a recent example, had a mish mosh of religious figures, including archangels and devils. It didn't bother me much because none of it was meant to be taken seriously, and it didn't even take place in a real location or time period. But Maria has research behind it. It takes place in France in the 1400s and has quite a bit of realism to it. So seeing Christianity portrayed through a Shinto/anime kaleidoscope lens yet again is a bit disappointing. It's a perfectly fine way to tell the story, it's still interesting, but you were right when you said that our speculation based on Christian/monotheistic theology was for naught, because that won't be relevant, and that's too bad. Would've been different, at least.
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Harleyquin
Posts: 2897 |
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I assume nothing, I used "if" and chose what I thought was the most likely identity of the mysterious boar-like entity. Without prior knowledge to the source material, my guess might be 100% wrong. If it is as you say Satan or some kind of fallen angel, why would it bother asking Maria in the 1st episode about her motivations when she's been stopping conflict around her forest for quite some time already? Bear in mind she only gets tagged by Michael from episode 2 onwards, so if the "devil" or "fallen angel" really wanted to make a move it would have been more likely to be after intervention from on high. @Agent355: I haven't looked at the official website, but if you're picking out a timeline based on the weapons used then it's no more than speculation since there has been zero mention of the year in the series to date. I'll go out on a whim and assume no one here actually watched MaoYuu from two years ago. That too was based in a semi-medieval setting with an established Church that somewhat resembled the medieval Catholic Church. For that matter, Spice and Wolf also had a similar setting so why should this series be treated any different just because of more coincidences with real history than the others? |
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