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Last edited by ikillchicken on Thu May 30, 2013 7:17 pm; edited 1 time in total

dtm42 wrote:

Which was my point. The article said that you can't have a female character in a video game but that's an absolutely absurd remark and patently untrue. I could name all those titles off the top of my head, and as I said above, I am hardly a hardcore gamer with an encyclopaedic memory of games.

The article only said that some douchebag publishing exec said that you can't have a female protagonist. That's entirely different from the article itself claiming there are no female protagonists. They're just relating what they were told. The fact that it's absurd is kinda the point.

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This article with its BS assertion is just trying to market a game by saying "we bet impossible odds that weren't actually impossible" rather than talk about the very real issue of the under-representation of women in video games.

Nobody said the odds were impossible. But they are pretty long odds. Even accepting your counterexamples, there are literally a handful of games with female protagonists next to hundreds upon hundreds with male ones. And in any case, they're pointing out that certain publishers will flat out refuse to produce a game with a female protagonist. If bringing that to people's attention is not addressing the very real issue of under-representation I don't know what is.

Chagen46 wrote:

Exceptions like that don't prove anything. All they prove is that exceptions exist. And many of those, like Perfect Dark, Metroid, and Tomb Raider are "grandfather'ed-in" exceptions at that.

It's also worth point out that...Perfect Dark hasn't been a relevant active franchise in a decade, Resident Evil hasn't had a main female protagonist since the PS1 era, Samus wears full body armour virtually all the time that makes here indistinguishable as female, and in all but the most recent Tomb Raider games Lara Croft was basically a blowup doll (and I don't think anyone is disputing that you can have those kinds of female characters). So even as exceptions, most aren't very strong ones.

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Nobody said the odds were impossible. But they are pretty long odds. Even accepting your counterexamples, there are literally a handful of games with female protagonists next to hundreds upon hundreds with male ones. And in any case, they're pointing out that certain publishers will flat out refuse to produce a game with a female protagonist. If bringing that to people's attention is not addressing the very real issue of under-representation I don't know what is.

Well...we did. And male gamers had a collective apopleptic fit and doubled down and nothing happened. I'm honestly not sure what to do when the majority is so militiant and unwilling to do anything.

It's a depressing world we live in. I can't talk to a male, any man, without wondering whether he's some rape apologist a person I disagree with politically. Which 80% of the time he is.

I really wish people would stop lumping all games and all gamers together. Out of the tons of games I've played this year, not one was I some "bald white male". The actions of one developer or game should be be held accountable towards another. I don't care what Remember Me or Bioshock devs said or say about females and marketing, I don't like or play their games so I don't care what they think, that's their own industry. It's like saying "all anime sucks because it's just shounen fighting series which are lame" and ignoring everything else about the medium.

Chagen46 wrote:

It's a depressing world we live in. I can't talk to a male, any man, without wondering whether he's some rape apologist a person I disagree with politically. Which 80% of the time he is.

I really hope you're just being a reverse-troll parody of extreme feminists at this point.

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I really hope you're just being a reverse-troll parody of extreme feminists at this point

No. I merely have convictions. Strong ones at that.

people I disagree with politically are everywhere. I've sadly excepted this. They crowd around like unwanted pestilence and infect every forum they come across. Plus, they bandy together and make it impossible to beat some sense into their heads.

Thankfully I know their tactics. Hell, I wrote a short personal essay on Rationalwiki detailing their most common tactics.

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Spend $1 to attack? You selected NO. Are you sure? You selected YES. Spend $1 to attack? You selected NO.

This annotation made me laugh. It's so very true. Even simple commands for phone gaming are going to cost something. No matter how much you tell it to shut up and stop asking, it just keeps pestering you to spend money to do rudimentary things in the game.

CrownKlown wrote:

The fact of the matter for most console gaming men still drive the sales, and at the end of the day the visuals will cater to men.

Blu-ray sales are to anime what game sales are to gaming. Laughing

Chagen46 wrote:

The amount of female main characters in games are INCREDIBLY low. I remember reading a study done by one person on this and the amount was shockingly depressing. It was on Destructoid--I'll look for it again but if you dig in the blogs you should find it.

Games with exclusively female heroes don’t sell (because publishers don’t support them)

The data

“We looked across many genres, but not many genres make your protagonist super apparent. When you’re playing a racing game, you can’t usually tell the gender because you’re the car. So we limited our data set to action, shooter, and RPG genre games.” Zatkin showed me data from a talk he gave around a year ago, so the data was slightly older, that looked at those three genres in the seventh-generation console cycle. Looking at a sample of 669 games that had protagonists with discernible genders, only 24 had exclusively female protagonists. Action had the most female protagonists, shooters had even less, and role-playing games had exactly one game with a female only hero. In all three genres, a little under 300 games gave the option of a female lead. That includes games where you can choose your gender or create your own character.

EEDAR also compared three months of sales data for each game. The three month interval was deliberately chosen: it negates the effects of games released at the end of the month, and captures almost all of a game's initial sales. If a game was released in the final days of a month, you still have the following two months to track things. Games have a short tail, meaning older titles rarely sale in large numbers, so you can gain much information by looking at the first three months of availability.

“If you look at the first three months, with the smaller quantity of female-led games, they did not sell as well. The ones that were male-only sold better,” Zatkin explained. There are some more interesting bits here. Games that allow you to choose your gender are reviewed better than games that offer male-only heroes, but the games with male only heroes sold better. In terms of pure sales numbers, in the first three months of availability, games with only a male hero sold around 25 percent better than games with an optional female hero. Games with exclusively male heroes sold around 75 percent better than games with only female heroes.

By looking at these trends two things become clear: games that give you a choice of gender are, on average, reviewed slightly better than games with male-only heroes, but the games that sell very well are almost all led by male heroes. If you’re funding a large-budget game and you see these numbers, you see that you lose sales by adding the capability to choose a female hero, and you lose significant sales by releasing a game with a female hero. “You look at unit sales, and if you look at unit sales by platform, you can see that it holds true except on the DS,” Zatkin said. “For some reason on the DS female-optional sells better than male-only. But for every other console, including the PSP, [male-led games sell better.]” So the conclusion is easy. If you want to make money, you can’t have female heroes leading your game, right? Not so fast…

Anyways, if the cover was done anime-style, there won't be complaints next time.

enurtsol wrote:

[url=http://penny-arcade.com/report/article/games-with-female-heroes-don't-sell-because-publishers-don't-support-them]Games with exclusively female heroes don’t sell (because publishers don’t support them)[/url]
[list]

If anyone wants to read that link, you'll have to copy and paste the url and remove the apostrophe in "don't"[/url]. It gets inserted whenever you try to post the actual url, as I found out in a previous thread.

ikillchicken wrote:

Resident Evil hasn't had a main female protagonist since the PS1 era

Resident Evil Code Veronica Feb 2000.
Resident Evil Revelations Jan 2012.

Chagen46 wrote:

Most male gamers are that sexist. Need I bring up Sarkeesian and the utterly pathological and grossly disturbing hatred she recieved?

Yes. Please bring it up and tell us how someone who doesn't know a single thing about gaming received 160.000$ to make her flawed videos. She's now close to the AVGN as the 2nd biggest con artist and e-begger in the gaming industry.

I was even willing to ignore the fact that those vids look exactly the same as her rest, if they had anything important to say.

Chagen46 wrote:

It's a depressing world we live in. I can't talk to a male, any man, without wondering whether he's some rape apologist a person I disagree with politically. Which 80% of the time he is.

And you wonder why people can't help but laugh at feminists and their delusions.

Kerberous wrote:

Chagen46 wrote:

It's a depressing world we live in. I can't talk to a male, any man, without wondering whether he's some rape apologist a person I disagree with politically. Which 80% of the time he is.

And you wonder why people can't help but laugh at feminists and their delusions.

Thanks for proving Chagen's point. Laughing

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Yes. Please bring it up and tell us how someone who doesn't know a single thing about gaming received 160.000$ to make her flawed videos. She's now close to the AVGN as the 2nd biggest con artist and e-begger in the gaming industry.

She never conned anybody.

She asked for some minor money to make the videos. Male gamers had a collective aneurysm at the thought and threatened to rape and murder her, people sympathetic to her cause then gave her tons of money. She never ASKED for the money she got. She never conned anybody.

You would know this if you did 10 minutes of research. Of course, that would nullify your ability to be a disingenuous a person I disagree with politically spewing hatred onto anyone pointing out your awful beliefs, while being utterly unaware of what anyone is saying.

Rage on, boy. Maybe one day you'll be able to look outside of your cocoon of privilege and stop viewing others as obstructions to your want for the satisfaction of your base desires.

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Thanks for proving Chagen's point.

I truly have no idea if you are supporting my statements or mocking me, though I'm going to have good faith and assume that you are on the side of support.

Chagen46 wrote:

I truly have no idea if you are supporting my statements or mocking me, though I'm going to have good faith and assume that you are on the side of support.

Chagen, if I were mocking you you'd know it. Wink

But no, I'm genuinely agreeing with you. The fact that this guy responds to you by declaring "feminists" to be delusional and a joke pretty much proves he is exactly the kind of person you were talking about. Personally, I don't know if I'd go so far as to say 80% or to call them rape apologists (although plenty probably are), but I don't think you're wrong when you say that the massive chunk of guys these days are basically a person I disagree with politically type shitheads when you get down to it. It isn't generally acceptable to be openly, overtly sexist anymore (although it depends where you are) so the thing to do for mysoginists is to be a person I disagree with politically guy and instead argue from a feigned position of legitimacy. It's horrendous and pretty much kills any legitimate discussion as is always the case when one side is disingenuous about their true motivations.

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She never conned anybody.

Yeah, this whole issue is a pretty obvious non-starter for me. When you look at who it is making these arguments against her it becomes immediately apparent that they're just being made up after the fact to justify a knee jerk defensive reaction.

Chagen46 wrote:

She never conned anybody.

But I am getting concerned that she has only released one twenty-odd-minute video so far out of a series that is planned to be over ten episodes long. I get that it takes time to work out licenses to use footage and whatnot, but surely with so much money on hand that isn't too much of a problem. So what's the holdup?

Chagen46 wrote:

a person I disagree with politically

You keep using that term. I do not think it means what you think it means.

dtm42 wrote:

But I am getting concerned that she has only released one twenty-odd-minute video so far out of a series that is planned to be over ten episodes long.

Is that a typo, or do you not know yet that she just released her second video? Anyways, she just released her second video a couple days ago.

Chagen46 wrote:

t's a depressing world we live in. I can't talk to a male, any man, without wondering whether he's some rape apologist a person I disagree with politically. Which 80% of the time he is.

>_>

"It's a depressing world we live in. I can't talk to a black person, any black, without wondering whether he's some criminal or drug dealer. Which 80% of the time, he is"

This is what you sound like dude -_-;

dtm42 wrote:

I get that it takes time to work out licenses to use footage and whatnot

Weeelllll people have made retort videos towards her lack-of-points much quicker and in greater numbers without any problem so I dun think that's it... and they did it without donations too. But her second vid came out a few days ago and people already made longer and more indepth retorts to it so I don't think it takes 3 months to make a 20 minute video x_x;

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But I am getting concerned that she has only released one twenty-odd-minute video so far out of a series that is planned to be over ten episodes long. I get that it takes time to work out licenses to use footage and whatnot, but surely with so much money on hand that isn't too much of a problem. So what's the holdup?

Anita is a human being, as much as her "detractors" (more like whiny haters) try to denigrate her as Feminist Hitler. She is not perfect.

And she did release the second video a few days ago. I'm impressed at her resilience. Seriously, she's a strong person compared to her detractors, most of whom are complete pussies who will never get laid because they have so few cajones that they must resort to insults behind a computer screen to make up for their sad, pathetic, worthless, and utterly abhorrent existences where every day is an exercise in denying their own mediocrity and revoltingness.

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Weeelllll people have made retort videos towards her lack-of-points much quicker and in greater numbers without any problem so I dun think that's it... and they did it without donations too. But her second vid came out a few days ago and people already made longer and more indepth retorts to it so I don't think it takes 3 months to make a 20 minute video x_x;

Those "retort" video (more like screeds from internet people I disagree with politically much like screaming children whining about their toys being taken away) have as much worth as the opinion of a Stormfronter.

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