Forum - View topicHouse of 1000 Manga - Bunny Drop
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vashfanatic
 Posts: 3489 Location: Back stateside |
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So basically you are arguing that this entire manga is a sort of test to see if we can accept Rin's choice, whether we support freedom or repression of women, because being feminist means supporting whatever choices women make. And if we, like you, aren't squicked out by the the thought of a child marrying her father, then we have "passed," but if we argue that this is a terrible idea, then we "fail." And then you go on to demand evidence from the manga... which proves to me that you don't understand our problem here. Our problem is that this manga, yes, has gone out of its way to make Rin and Daikichi's relationship as "okay" as it can. So the answer to the test is that, yes, if - the child never develops feelings for their parent - the child never socializes far beyond the circle of their parent - the child actively avoids dating anyone other than their parent - the child has no real goals or ambitions beyond marrying their parent - the parent is able to easily and without qualm switch their parental feelings into sexual ones the moment the child expresses interest - the entirety of society is somehow completely okay with this turn in their relationship - or in other words if no one acts like a real human being then SURE a child can marry their parent! It's the set-up that's as creepy and disturbing as the actual relationship. In order to make this "okay," Unita takes what felt like a relatively realistic tale of a father adapting to single parenthood in a society with a lot of stigma against that, and then turns it into a twisted, unrealistic fantasy for people with father-figure fetishes. You can say "oh, but Rin was making CHOICES" but she wasn't - she's a character, not a human being. UNITA was making the choices, and its her choices that we have a problem with. |
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jymmy
 Posts: 1244 |
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Well, it had a fitting ending, while, from the sound of things, Bunny Drop didn't. I haven't read the Bunny Drop manga, but I thought the anime was better than Kodomo no Jikan in either incarnation, though, especially the anime. |
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Mohawk52
 Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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streexanime
Posts: 78 |
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I am tempted to get rid of the other volumes. I found the first four to be charming and got incredibly bored with the high school melodrama in volumes 5 and after. I heard about the ending before I even go to that point in the manga and I stopped collecting.
Feminism is about respecting the choices that women make on their own accord even if they clash with your personal set of beliefs. If a woman wants to raise kids and have a full time job, OK go for it. If a woman wants to be a stay at home mom, OK go for it. |
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Mr. sickVisionz
 Posts: 2173 |
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Whoa. I've got a news flash: being a parent is not about wanting to put your dick in your daughter. People have a bizarro sense of parenting and I kinda worry what happened to them as children if they think that. |
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Touma
 Posts: 2651 Location: Colorado, USA |
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Did somebody say that it is? |
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Cecilthedarkknight_234
 Posts: 3820 Location: Louisville, KY |
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Woody Allen |
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Akane the Catgirl
Posts: 1091 Location: LA, Baby! |
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Okay, I've never read or seen Bunny Drop. I hope to watch the anime one day if it gets dubbed, but so far, I have not had any experience with this story. Of course, this being the internet, I had the entire ending of the manga spoiled for me. And yes, I do think it's gross and squicky and morally repulsive. But there's someone on here who doesn't think that!
Errinundra, you seem to think that the relationship between the main character and his surrogate daughter is not gross. It's okay! She's sixteen and totally mature! Besides, it's all in the name of feminism! It's her choice, and we have no right to be disgusted by the spiritually incestuous Electra Complex going on! Right? See, your argument falls apart because you're using the logical fallacy that women making choices is inherently feminist. Look, it's not just about making choices. It's about making good, smart, logical, and MORALLY RIGHT decisions. You're assuming that the daughter's choice is feminist because of that fact that it's a choice at all. So by your logic, if this one random girl, say, decided to throw her life away because ONE GUY didn't like her THAT way, that's feminist. NO. That's a terrible decision! It doesn't matter if you're a man, woman, transgender, whatever! BAD DECISIONS ARE BAD DECISIONS. AND THIS IS A VERY BAD DECISION THAT THE AUTHOR CHOSE TO MAKE AND SHOULD NOT HAVE DONE. Funnily enough, this whole fiasco reminds me of another (imaginary) couple from one of my favorite manga of all time. I'm of course talking about Black Jack and Pinoko from Osamu Tezuka's Black Jack. Pinoko is chronologically eighteen, but her physical body is one year old and looks five, and her emotional maturity is around six or seven. She's famous for her crush on the eponymous Dr. Black Jack, who nonetheless thinks of her as a daughter. They don't get together at the end. And by all real world logic, they shouldn't. I personally do not like the Black Jack/Pinoko ship because, to me, it could never ever happen. Black Jack thinks of Pinoko as a daughter and nothing else. It doesn't matter that they're not related by blood. It's spiritual incest from Black Jack's perspective, and that's what matters. Oh, I heard they tried that in the Bunny Drop manga. That's cheating. A whole LOT of incest-fetish anime pull the Get-Out-Of-Jail-Free card to justify their shenanigans. "See, they're not REALLY brother and sister! So it's okay for them to f**k each other!" It apparently p***ed of 90% of the Sword Art Online fanbase when they played that card during Fairy Dance (among other things), and it p***ed of fans of Bunny Drop at the end. It doesn't matter how much any anime sugarcoats an (spiritual or not) incestuous relationship. It's still incest. It's still gross. And it's still impossible 90% of the time.- |
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vashfanatic
Posts: 3489 Location: Back stateside |
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No, it's not. Feminism is about breaking down the patriarchal structures in society that limit and inhibit women's (and sometimes men's) ability to make choices that benefit and empower themselves. If a woman freely chooses to be a stay at home mom because that's what she wants, more power to her. But if a woman chooses to be a stay at home mom because she can't afford childcare, because her husband or family pressures her, because she's facing a pay-cut for being a mother, or any of the other sexist reasons that can influence her choice, then that's not feminism. Working to eliminate the sexist reasons so she can make the choice more freely is feminism. We don't have to respect every choice women make. If a woman chooses to stay with an abusive husband, we are allowed to say that is a horrible choice. If a sixteen-year old girl who has never dated anyway else decides her only goal in life is to marry her 40-year old father, we are allowed to say that is a horrible choice. The only reason the manga makes this not a horrible choice is by rigging the game in unrealistic and unnatural ways, as mentioned above. And while we're talking about patriarchy and I'm repeating myself anyway (I've made every single one of these points in previous arguments with Errinundra), can I reiterate that assuming parent-child and husband-wife relationships are interchangeable is the epitome of patriarchal societies? You belong to your father until you're married, then you belong to your husband. They both are your protector and provider. By making Daikichi be as equally comfortable as her father and her husband, Unita is sending some seriously disturbing signals about what she thinks a healthy marriage looks like. |
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insert name here
Posts: 84 |
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Fair enough. God knows how much I've complained about the professional provocateering of guys like Lars Von Trier and Michael Haneke. What's interesting to me about Usagi Drop's ending, and what distinguishes it from the former examples, is that it really seems to hit a nerve, and from what I can tell it wasn't something that was done deliberately. I don't think that it was some kind of psuedo-avant-garde gesture, but its such a weird ending. Anyway, that's my two cents. |
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SheRrIs
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Just makes me wonder how everybody here would react to the ending if Rin was a boy. If Unita wanted to be really shocking, she would have gone that route.
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nottimkai
 Posts: 77 |
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... this is such a minor nit to pick about an otherwise good article, but by the time the taboo romance comes around it is no longer pedophilia, but ephebophilia. It makes a difference. Not much of one, granted, but the correct terms should be used when discussing something. Pedophilia would imply that Daikichi was looking after Rin for entirely unsavory purposes, or it would imply that Lolicons were supposed to be beating it wildly to the first 4 volumes of the story. Neither of those things is true. I absolutely understand your critiques, but saying that the only reason you could enjoy the second half of Bunny Drop is for prurient reasons is unfair. I never got that vibe from the manga. I remember thinking "Huh. Taking a Genji route now, are we?", which you addressed in the column. Hell, you even mentioned the fact that Daikichi doesn't have a sex drive earlier. The 'relationship' that is developed never seemed like it had a sexual component. I am uncultured and ignorant, though. Maybe that's why the second half of the story didn't bother me the way it REALLY bothered a lot of people. It also wasn't as good as the first half. I used to work in human services, and this relationship seemed so unrealistic that it was obviously entirely fantastical. Maybe that's what it was - it was easy to divorce the squick reaction because the story was so obviously not real. I suppose if one were looking to read this, they should go with the first 4 volumes unless they are a completionist. Good article! I look forward to the next! |
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sunflower
 Posts: 1080 |
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That's your definition of feminism. It's not the only one, nor is it the 'correct' one. There is no correct one. Feminism has splintered into as many groups as the protestant churches, and none is morally superior, despite what the adherents of each may think. |
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Akane the Catgirl
Posts: 1091 Location: LA, Baby! |
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Wait, wait wait... I think both of you are wrong. Let me explain why. Feminism isn't just about making choices- whether they be right or not. Feminism isn't just about smashing the patriarchal barriers. To me, feminism is simply proving that women and men are on equal grounds, and that neither sex is inherently better than the other. If it is about women being better than men, that can veer into sexism against men and misandry. Let's all agree that men and women CAN and SHOULD have equal rights and be on equal standing. Who's with me? 
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FoxgloveLove
Posts: 27 |
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Well crap....
I watched the anime, and loved it so much (really, I thought it was a wonderful show) that I decided to get the manga. I hadn't gotten to the time skip yet, but I could tell from the covers that it was going to fast forward into the future. Still, not expecting too much of an alteration in the theme of the series, I saw this article and decided to go ahead and read it... *sigh* Well, I will say this, the anime version certainly did the right thing, and I could've stayed wonderfully ignorant to this if I didn't enjoy it so much that I like to start buying the series afterward (irony, right?). |
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