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INTEREST: Broccoli Warns Against Uta-Pri Doujin Goods


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Spotlesseden



Joined: 09 Sep 2004
Posts: 3514
Location: earth
PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2014 9:09 pm Reply with quote
Cptn_Taylor wrote:
This thread once again shows just how f-u-c-k-i-n-g entitled anime/manga fans are.
From fansubs to doujishi's. Get this straight, making a doujinshi and selling it at Comiket is a privilege the copyright holder grants the fans.
It's nothing more than that. As such it can be revoked at the copyright holder's request. And when fan made products start eating into the legitimate market you can expect the copyright holder to clamp down on the fans that make said products.


too bad anime fans only have gut to use copyright stuffs from anime/manga. higher level people like Samsung has more gut because they copy Apple's design. more $$$.
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punipuniwarrior



Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 41
PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2014 9:25 pm Reply with quote
Broccoli are not foolish to pursue this, it was a long time coming and it could have been any company, not just Broccoli who have confronted it head-on.

The issue here is that the line between doujin and bootleg is being continually blurred in a way which can cause big problems for a large franchise such as UtaPri. When people are selling 'doujin' figures or other chara-goods which happen to be near-identical knock-offs of existing figures or chara-goods, it goes beyond fans making fan works for other fans as a hobby (See: WonFes and Comiket) and instead verges into bootleg territory, in which a shady company can make money from such items without paying taxes or meeting certain regulations so long as they claim to be a 'doujin circle'.

The potential for disaster can be great; if a cheap, Chinese bootleg business was to produce a bunch of UtaPri gashapon toys from an unsanitary PVC plant, the result could be literally toxic and cause physical harm to the public. The tabloids will not discriminate over who made the figures, just that UtaPri goods are potentially lethal - it's a PR nightmare to say the least.

We will absolutely see more of these complaints from other companies. As a staunch supporter of doujin works I can tell you that this is not a case of copyright owners being greedy or evil, but an inevitable result of vested interests making money from mass-produced, so called 'doujin' goods that are anything but and have little to nothing to do with the original doujin scene and/or ethos.
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 6284
Location: Katy, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2014 10:37 pm Reply with quote
Spotlesseden wrote:


too bad anime fans only have gut to use copyright stuffs from anime/manga. higher level people like Samsung has more gut because they copy Apple's design. more $$$.


Well Apple also violated Samsung's patent too.

Cnet wrote:
Apple and Samsung emerged from yet another court battle earlier this month with a jury returning a mixed verdict. The eight-person jury found that Samsung violated three of Apple's five patents at issue and was ordered to pay $119.6 million, much less than the $2.2 billion sought by the iPhone maker. But Apple also was found to have infringed a Samsung patent and was ordered to pay $158,400, considerably lower than Samsung's $6.2 million request.



punipuniwarrior wrote:
Broccoli are not foolish to pursue this, it was a long time coming and it could have been any company, not just Broccoli who have confronted it head-on.

The issue here is that the line between doujin and bootleg is being continually blurred in a way which can cause big problems for a large franchise such as UtaPri. When people are selling 'doujin' figures or other chara-goods which happen to be near-identical knock-offs of existing figures or chara-goods, it goes beyond fans making fan works for other fans as a hobby (See: WonFes and Comiket) and instead verges into bootleg territory, in which a shady company can make money from such items without paying taxes or meeting certain regulations so long as they claim to be a 'doujin circle'.

The potential for disaster can be great; if a cheap, Chinese bootleg business was to produce a bunch of UtaPri gashapon toys from an unsanitary PVC plant, the result could be literally toxic and cause physical harm to the public. The tabloids will not discriminate over who made the figures, just that UtaPri goods are potentially lethal - it's a PR nightmare to say the least.

We will absolutely see more of these complaints from other companies. As a staunch supporter of doujin works I can tell you that this is not a case of copyright owners being greedy or evil, but an inevitable result of vested interests making money from mass-produced, so called 'doujin' goods that are anything but and have little to nothing to do with the original doujin scene and/or ethos.


Yep, I do agreed with you and your statement. But I still think the "copyright owners being greedy/evil" motive may be present in this one. But it's also possible they want to milk the design and sell it as their own and not acknowledging or crediting the doujin designers.
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Apollo-kun



Joined: 11 Feb 2010
Posts: 1213
Location: City 7, Macross 7
PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2014 11:54 pm Reply with quote
Broccoli. Who, back in the day, used Di Gi Charat doujin merch to further promote Gamers, if I recall correctly. And now they complain? Yeah, no, it doesn't work that way, guys. You can't pick and choose, and certainly can't turn your back on the community who made you who you are today. Doujin UtaPri merch outselling your own? Hm. How about making better wares to promote your series?
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leesahlynn



Joined: 17 Mar 2014
Posts: 81
PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2014 12:48 am Reply with quote
What it comes down to is simple: make the products we want of the quality we want and we will pay for it. If you can't, or wont, we'll pay someone else to. Don't stomp your feet and demand we deal with the lack of merchandise because you don't want to shell out the initial cost of production.
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mistress_kisara



Joined: 15 Sep 2012
Posts: 210
PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2014 1:08 am Reply with quote
leesahlynn wrote:
What it comes down to is simple: make the products we want of the quality we want and we will pay for it. If you can't, or wont, we'll pay someone else to. Don't stomp your feet and demand we deal with the lack of merchandise because you don't want to shell out the initial cost of production.

As someone who buys the official utapri merch, they're pretty much in good quality (I don't know about the others) and since Utapri is a huge franchise there are TONS of official merchs there that gets sold out easily because people buy it bulk (they do restock though)

Maybe a solution is that Brocolli should try hiring these artists but that's not as easy as it sounds Confused
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Shippoyasha



Joined: 28 Aug 2007
Posts: 459
PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2014 3:37 am Reply with quote
Isn't it counter-intuitive to make enemies out of your own fanbase just having fun with their inner circle of goods?

If this makes for a mass exodus of fandom, what a thing to do to your own franchise.
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DaftPhunk



Joined: 28 Jun 2013
Posts: 14
PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2014 4:45 am Reply with quote
Normally I can understand when copyright owners do this, even if I don't like it myself personally. But in this case for Broccoli I have no sympathy for them: the fact that they're complaining about the abundance of doujin goods that look too similarly to theirs is of merit, but the thing is they've only got themselves to blame for it.

When a bunch of your items are event exclusive that get all the fans needing to wake up and be there at insane hours of the morning, only to end up empty handed because they all sold out (and later found on auctions at ridiculous prices), what do you think some of these frustrated guys are going to do?

The number of knockoffs and how it's probably as rampant as it is is because nothing has been done officially to fix this growing problem (and by fix I mean meet the demand). There are knock offs and outlets of their work as a result of the unsatisfied demand and/or the abhorrent leaps to get those official goods in the first place. I'm sure if Broc did something, knockoffs would probably lower in numbers - or at least more fans would go to purchase their own official goods first.

Make better offers Broc. Make more items, make better items - just do something to ATTRACT (and not force) the demand from the doujins to yourself. You have all the power in the world for it yet you're...not doing it.
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Asterisk-CGY



Joined: 09 Mar 2007
Posts: 398
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 2:40 am Reply with quote
Seriously, fudge copyright. At this point its a giant No Fun brigade that keeps people from being interested in stuff because you're not allowed to be creative with it.
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2014 7:33 am Reply with quote
Asterisk-CGY wrote:
Seriously, fudge copyright. At this point its a giant No Fun brigade that keeps people from being interested in stuff because you're not allowed to be creative with it.
One can be creative, just not profitably creative. There's the rub. Wink
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MopZ



Joined: 10 May 2012
Posts: 40
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 12:58 pm Reply with quote
Well, this is just another stone in the bucket, but Broccoli seems to be going about this in a really bad way. Right now it sounds too similar to the stances other companies and industries have taken when they ignored emerging digital distribution markets and reacted with lawsuits instead of acknowledging the needs and wants of a changing market. Well, whatever it is I don't think this is about greed.
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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 6284
Location: Katy, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 2:52 pm Reply with quote
Apollo-kun wrote:
Broccoli. Who, back in the day, used Di Gi Charat doujin merch to further promote Gamers, if I recall correctly. And now they complain? Yeah, no, it doesn't work that way, guys. You can't pick and choose, and certainly can't turn your back on the community who made you who you are today. Doujin UtaPri merch outselling your own? Hm. How about making better wares to promote your series?


Really now, so this company is getting all hypocritical (either that or the CEO is being a greedy jerk).
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punipuniwarrior



Joined: 11 Jun 2012
Posts: 41
PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2014 6:01 pm Reply with quote
DaftPhunk wrote:

The number of knockoffs and how it's probably as rampant as it is is because nothing has been done officially to fix this growing problem (and by fix I mean meet the demand). There are knock offs and outlets of their work as a result of the unsatisfied demand and/or the abhorrent leaps to get those official goods in the first place. I'm sure if Broc did something, knockoffs would probably lower in numbers - or at least more fans would go to purchase their own official goods first.

Make better offers Broc. Make more items, make better items - just do something to ATTRACT (and not force) the demand from the doujins to yourself. You have all the power in the world for it yet you're...not doing it.


The problem isn't Broccoli not meeting demand (Let's face it, when has Broccoli ever been known to be frugal with character merchandise?) it's that there are plenty of companies out there who are abusing the title of 'doujin circle' to sell shoddy black market figurines for cheap.

There have been complains about this for a few years now and I believe Anime News Network has even reported a few. Many artists, producers and comiket contributors and volunteers have complained that there are far too many professional 'doujin' circles taking over the doujin scene in the interest of money. Companies who are financially snapping at the heels of some of the better known eroge brands out there, yet refuse to get a company booth in order to save cash.

Broccoli never used doujin works to promote Di Gi Charat any more than any other company has done. You can erase this myth right away. In fact, Broccoli has always been more than kind in showing support for doujin artists - don't forget this is how Di Gi Charat came to be the iconic anime it was in the beginning - nobody was supporting doujinshi artists in the same way Broccoli supported Koge Donbo and not only grew Di Gi Charat into something huge, but Takaaki-san gave her full control over almost every aspect of the franchise.
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