Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! [2006-10-06]
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luna_rainbow
Posts: 1 |
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Heh, my first post ever, and I'm not sure if it's a smart idea to jump on this bandwagon.
I read Tsubasa when it first came out, because I was (is?) an avid CLAMP fan. I loved X and Tokyo Babylon, liked the basis of Angelic Layer, found CCS sweet, XXXholic hilarious, and tolerated Magic Knight Rayearth and RG Veda and others... After about 7 chapters of Tsubasa I gave up. Syaoran and Sakura were cardboard thin. What happened to the awkward brat? And the girl who could hold her own against a bunch of cocky Chinese smart alecs? Mokona has always been a self-indulgent existence straight from MKR (who names an annoying talking animal after their own pen name?) and Kurogane had a weird helmet. Fai was the only one who vaguely interested me. I came to the conclusion most people who agree with the rant seem to have - that Tsubasa was just some junk shounen churned out by CLAMP using their old characters as a marketing ploy to reel in their old fans. A few weeks ago, I got back into Tsubasa - this time at chapter 120 onwards. And I think my opinion has completely changed. The bit about it being a "junk shounen......etc......to reel in their old fans" hasn't, but anyone who thought CLAMP has lost their touch with storytelling was mistaken. Remember CLAMP - their ruthlessness in submitting their characters to lots of toil? Their expert touch with emotional subtlety? Their skill with turning the plot in unexpected directions? Remember Tokyo Babylon, starting out as a sweet episodic shounen-ai, and ending as one of the most well-remembered tragedies in their class? Skip the first 10 volumes, if you must - but read Kurogane's backstory; read from chapters 100 onwards - and you will find your impressions of Syaoran completely changed. Sakura is stronger, Fai's story is slowly unravelling, and Kurogane is maturing - all to the (admittedly a touch too melodramatic) backdrop cast of X. Hey, at least now I don't feel bad about not liking "Syaoran" at all~ |
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Pleroma
 Posts: 443 Location: Eromanga island |
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I sorta got the impression that just about everything in Tsubasa was "bleh" but I do agree as far as male protagonists go Sayoran is about as bad as it gets.
I also wonder if we would really see a crackdown on doujinshi if the practice got popularized here. Most anime companies would probably see that for the sake of market expansion, allowing fanworks to flourish would be in everyone's best interest. The reason why I doubt it would happen however is because it seems to me that the western fans and people in general have a greater tendency to express thamselves through writing than drawing. This may stem from from the use of symbol-based language, but the Japanese youth appears to aften be more skilled or more likely to draw fanfics that those in the US, where its mostly the written fanfics that plroliferate. I don't know what risque title TokyoPop was planning to licence but maybe Zac was refering to this lolirific manga by SevenSeas. I have no problem with shota, only with the double standard (its less ok for guys to like loli than for women to like shota) which is utter BS. PS: LOL at "October Surprise" go back to watching Fox news, where Foley isn't even Republican! |
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championferret
 Posts: 765 |
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To be perfectly honest, even though I still see Tsubasa Sakura/Syaoran and CCS Sakura/Syaoran as completely different characters (as they are meant to be seen) I feel that CCS Syaoran and Tsubasa Syaoran really arent that different at all. I think Tsubasa Syaoran is what CCS Syaoran will be like when he's older. I saw it right away. For people complaining about 'character change', the change happens in the second series of CCS in my opinion, rather than Tsubasa.
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ichido reichan
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People....what is shota? is another name to variant another comic book related to like "boy vs boy" "girl vs girl" "little girl vs little boy" little boy vs little boy" and so on, each has a japanese name on it!!!
Also, I come out to defend the Doujinshi name, if I recall good, on the movie "Otaku no video" the guy prepared doujinshis about science fiction with robots and cg effects all made by themselves with no parody of anything, just a self published work. Many of the manga creators did a doujinshi once in their lives, they do it to showcase their talents and stories and you can create a fandom that follow your titles and stories every comiket and looks for your next book. Now, since fans know how to please another fans, we got the best of the best and the worst of the worst, the sexual demand is an industry that was before you were born and will be after you'll die, and now, in this time and age you say "doujinshi" and is like "porn magazine about cartoons you know" sad people, very sad, if we have a comiket in USA someday it will sadly have to be over 18. Nobody has done a doujinshi about my favorite viderogame characters engaging in a battle (and I dont mean "that" kind of battle) so preety much doujins will be pwned by yaoi fangirls and the likes. |
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Kilgamayan
 Posts: 275 Location: Location, Location. |
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Shota is the male equivalent of loli.
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ichido reichan
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Oh cool, adults wanting young boys?
now what is the japanese term for the sex with animals? ero-maskottu? or something like that.... I didn't know breaking the morals because it's japanese manga was cool... you bunch of sick... |
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Wolverine Princess
 Posts: 1100 |
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Not always, sometimes it's little boys wanting other little boys. |
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ArielTsuki
Posts: 178 |
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Whoa, whoa, there. Was that neccesary? I mean honestly, who gave you the right to call someone "sick" because of something they read? I mean, can we have a mature conversation without acting like our shoes sizes (and what I mean by shoe sizes, I mean the US shoe sizes, people)? And why does everybody must bring the pedophila=bestiality equation into this? Please, keep to the subject without comparing to some other sexual deviancy. And no drawn or written media doesn't have to conform to "morals" and "morals" for each person is different from each other. Just say, "Um. shota is not for me and I avoid it." It makes you look credible. On that page, I don't like shota or lolicon. I'm uncomfortable to see any sexual encounters with anyone under 15, much less 12. However, if someone wants their lolicon/shota stuff, let them have it. It's no concern for me. It's drawn and written, which means it is not bounded to real-life morals or boundries. If you don't like it, pass over and/or ignore it like I do. It's really easy, y'know. And no, it will not make people go out and mess around with a little kid. Trust me, they mostly likely have that inclination in the first place. Studied it in psychology, y'know. So "reading lolicon/shota=messing around with little kid later on" is unfounded and not true. Then every anime must influence us in every way. I mean, do all the anime you watched do that to you?
You know, I'm sick and tired of this group of people bashing yaoi fangirls. No, they do not "destroy" everything. Stop being so melodramtic and stop taking anime as serious business and simply enjoy it. Plus, it don't not make you a real anime fan or any other validation you're seeking. This bias against yaoi fangirls is tired and reeks of decay. It's also silly. Really. *sigh* I miss the old anime fandom of 10 years ago, when it was small and everyone enjoy anime and respected other people views on one subject matter, whether they agreed or not. Maybe I was in a bubble back then. I dunno. If anything, most yaoi fangirls are most accomdating of their stuff in that they respect the people who's not into it (well the ones I met) because they know the unpopularity of homosexuality and don't want to get flamed on it. I mean, every BL/yaoi fanfic I read almost ALWAYS had warnings whereas the het ones rarely do because they don't want to get flamed (which they still do). You don't hafta like it, simply ignore it. And you're not bitter is the biggest lie I ever heard because you believe "they need to die". I mean, honestly. Act like more mature, please. Anyways, after getting that little rant off my chest. I want to talk about the rant of this Answerman. Right off the bat, like everyone said, TRC Syaoran and Sakura =/= CCS Syaoran and Sakura. However they do same the core traits in that both Syaorans is stubborn and kind (and somewhat clueless at times) and both Sakuras are inhumanely kind. They same the kind souls, but not the same experiences that creates our surface personalities. The ranter is relying too much on their surface personalities and not seeing between the lines in that matter. TRC, I admit, is not for everyone. For me, I loved it from the very beginning and very excited how good it's getting (I'm following the Japanese tanboukans). I mean the slow pace of the earlier volumes make it even more sweeter because it gives you a sense of safety of the character dynamics before it smashed right down. Besides, I'm thinking that TRC is going to end up a tragedy. I'm guessing because Syaoran and Sakura are mentioned as being "star-crossed lovers" before. I don't think Syaoran is cardboard character. I mean give the boy a break if he's dedicating every waking moment to save and help the girl he loves. For Syaoran, it's all about Sakura. However the latest volume (or chapters) changes all that in terms of character. And he does act silly at times (especially when he's drunk, it's really hilarious). And he DOES blush and still clueless in terms of romance when he do capture glimpse of his personality when he's not totally focusing on the mission. And the case of Sakura, she's techincally an anemsic, so she's not herself, but incomplete. She was playful and kind before the feather accident, so it may take a while for her to really be herself. So it's not surpriing she's like a blank slate. Also, if you read the latter volumes of TRC, Sakura is sick and tired of people helping her and want to protect them as well. She expresses her frustrations on her inablilty to do anything more than once. No damsel-in-distress character would do that. And maybe it'll change in the recent and future chapters. Well, I'm done here. Last edited by ArielTsuki on Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:16 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Kilgamayan
Posts: 275 Location: Location, Location. |
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Have you been hiding under a rock for the last 70 billion lolicon debates/arguments here? |
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ArielTsuki
Posts: 178 |
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No, I only been here for a short while, and I'm already tired of the same bullcrap saying over and over again, that's more like it. |
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cardcaptormanda
 Posts: 237 Location: United States |
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Small? Yes. Everyone respected the views of others? Maybe you were in a bubble. I remember things being just as stupid and petty then as now, and people were just as stubborn with their views, and just as mean in the way they expressed them. I find it a bit odd that you would preach accepting the views of others when your entire post was basically bashing the views of others. I'm absolutely neutral on the whole yaoi/loli/shota/whatever debate, because what other people enjoy is no concern of mine whatsoever, but if you're going to preach respect for the views of others, then you should practice it as well. |
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Zalis116
Moderator
 Posts: 6868 Location: Kazune City |
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Okay, so maybe there is a bit too much bashing of yaoi fangirls, but it's not like they don't make themselves easy targets. I suppose it's better to have yaoi fangirls than no female anime fans at all 
And maybe some things weren't debated 10 years ago, but I'm sure that the sub vs. dub debates were even more heated, since it was the VHS era. |
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cardcaptormanda
Posts: 237 Location: United States |
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I'm not trying to argue with you or your opinions in general, but I'd just like to point out that there are plenty of guys out there who get into series just because it might have one or more good looking women or a horde of pretty school girls, or girls who will watch a series just for the bishounen. I don't really see how that's any different than yaoi fangirls (most of whom are actually shounen-ai fangirls and would probably put off by actual yaoi) getting into a show just for the shounen-ai content. Anyway, I don't get this "I'm into yaoi and proud of it!" thing some of them come out with. You don't see people going around proudly proclaiming they're into straight relationships, so why do they feel the need to do that in regards to their love for yaoi (or shounen-ai)? It's almost like these people really, really want to be noticed and stir up controversy, but then they get upset if that actually happens. I'll be blunt. I really wish they'd just shut up about it. They're free to like whatever they want, but it becomes a problem when they decide they want to shove it down everybody's throats. 
Just a note: I know 100% of yaoi fans are not like this. I'm just talking about the stereotypical "yaoi fangirl" here. If you're a yaoi fan, and you're not irritating about it, then I'm not referring to you. |
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Steroid
 Posts: 329 Location: At home, where all good hikikomori should be |
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I think it's gotten worse. There was a point when an anime fan was so desperate for a fellow anime-fan friend that he or she would show more deference and respect to those that were around.
There is a difference. We shouldn't bash what other people do to enjoy themselves, by themselves for their own purpose, with only consenting parties involved. But we should bash the opinion that people should give up what they like and become more normal or fly their flags a little lower. So, if we have yaoi fangirls who like to squeal and scream and run around and profess their love for the characters in the yaoi anime they watch, that's people enjoying themselves. If we have anti-yaoi-fangirl people who get annoyed and tell them to shut up, that's people trying to interfere with enjoyment. |
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Mohawk52
 Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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