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Why Sailor Moon Crystal Isn't a Total Disaster


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Animeking1108



Joined: 26 Apr 2011
Posts: 1179
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:22 pm Reply with quote
mangamuscle wrote:
Animeking1108 wrote:
Your argument sounds like "the one I watched first did the crappy thing better."


Sounds like you think "The original series was commercial, but Crystal is art" Laughing


I didn't say that at all. I'm just saying {Cut out the negativity. ~nobahn}.
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H. Guderian



Joined: 29 Jan 2014
Posts: 1143
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:36 pm Reply with quote
NJ_ wrote:
H. Guderian wrote:
Junichi Sato, what'd he go on to do? The Doremi Franchise? directed Aria? Kaleido Star? He -Created!- Princess Tutu!!! Futagohime? I loved that magical girl show. Funny and entertaining!


Slight correction on Doremi, Sato was involved but that was mostly the work of Takuya Igarashi, the guy who directed Sailor Stars after Ikuhara left.


Yeah, didn't Sato mostly handle the first season? Thanks for calling it out though. You do bring up a good point - another Sailor Moon Veteran going on to work on successful, fun shows.
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ryonomiko
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Joined: 22 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:42 pm Reply with quote
Everyone has their own view and if you want to think SMC got some things done better, fine, but make sure of your facts please. You didn't say which version of the original anime you're referring to, the ENGLISH adaptation (which has many many nasty alterations), or the Japanese?

Sailor Moon was the series that triggered my anime and manga hobby (and no I wasn't a kid or teen either) so it has a very special place in my heart.

English dub to start (on YTV channel in Canada, 1995) but quickly had urge to find the original JP anime and the manga and I did. I saw (after where English dub left off at (R) and saw S fansubbed and/or raw from rentals at a local JP bookstore and anime club) watching SuperS onwards as it came out initially along with the manga untl the end (manga ended after SStars anime).

I have never had an issue with the anime being different to the manga. I've loved and appreciated both versions. For all the differences between the two, the CORE of the STORY and characters is unchanged.


SMC I find little to praise about (even the following the manga point isn't so TRUE anymore with some very glaring changes), but other comments I read (just on the first page alone) hit many of the things I'm not crazy about.

Original anime series was damn popular. So give what the audience wants. And like BLEACH and Naruto anime, it got well ahead of where the manga was at and to keep going (instead of stopping for a time), there were AO stories and arcs done. Was it always brilliant, no. It most definitely however gave time for plenty of character depth, not just the girls, but for the central enemies as well.

Usagi (and Chibiusa) took longer to grow (aged two years over 5 series), but they did, a lot. You watch it as it goes along week after week it may not seem so different (and annoying characteristics start to grate on the nerves) or too slow (especially in comparison to SMC's pace). Watch an R episode and then an end of SuperS episode and the growth is clearly seen.

Every time Sailor Moon had a major power up, so did the Inner Senshi (and so did the Outer Senshi in Sailor Stars). Even if it was the same attack used, it wasn't the same level as before. They also had other abilities besides those attacks. Abilities unique to each girl. There's far more separating the girls than their uniform colours.

Lack of character separation? No, hardly. SMC I would say allows for little character development compared to the original anime due to the number of episodes. If this new version gets to the Sailor Stars arc and follows the manga, the Starlights will barely exist (not that is necessarily a bad thing).

Manga had more attacks over the series, yes. Original anime only had TWO attacks?!! No. Inner Senshi had more than 2. Outer Senshi were more limited in range of attacks.
Mars: Fire Soul, Akuryou Taisen, Fire Soul Bird, Burning Mandala, Mars Flame Sniper
Mercury: Shabon Spray, Shabon Spray Freezing, Shine Aqua Illusion, Mercury Aqua Rhapsody, Mercury Aqua Mirage
Jupiter: Supreme Thunder, Supreme Thunder Dragon, Sparkling Wide Pressure, Jupiter Oak Evolution
Venus: Crescent Beam, Crescent Beam Shower, Venus Love Me Chain, Venus Love and Beauty Shock

You're going to use Mamoru's original anime outfit as a reason to praise SMC? That's important??

Mamoru isn't meant to stand out. The girls' friendship, and girl power, are key themes for the series. Again with the longer series, he doesn't have as much to do (seem so useful) in comparison to the far more condensed SMC. His character isn't a huge success, but he's not flat, without any depth (just not given much screen time). One of my favourite SuperS episodes (AO) is focussed on Mamoru's classmate's interest in him (he's unaware of) who is stunned to meet his junior high girlfriend and then sees the depth of his love for her (she also learns she's Sailor Moon).

Creepy? It's a 5 year age gap in the original anime. Is that so drastic a difference to two years? Given the ages they start at, yes, on the young side, but would you be so creeped out at 16/21, 18/23 ages?? It's never portrayed as creepy in the original anime. What is creepy and is the same for SMC is Chibiusa's far more than a crush on her DAD. And Mamoru and Usagi may have had sex already in SMC, got no hint of that in the original anime.

SMC: he WEARS a tuxedo. He does NOT transform. Original anime? He transforms. Ep34 (Japanese episode count) please revisit Rebecca. I have no idea why/how you think he's "unable to transform by his own volition" as well as "zero control over his magical powers". Did we watch the same anime series? You gave no specifics.

He doesn't SAY anything to invoke his attacks, but Mamoru has powers. More subtle to be sure but clearly there (rose, cane, "fly", ability to heal, some level of psychic abilities,...). He is the senshi for Earth (with his Golden Crystal).

SMC I'm watching still although I'm really not sure why, just to see how different it is (and how variant to the manga it will go as well) I guess. I've got ZERO incentive to buy it though! Meanwhile I am looking forward to filling in my DVD collection holes for the original series with the new versions we've been getting.
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HeeroTX



Joined: 15 Jul 2002
Posts: 2043
Location: Austin, TX
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:50 pm Reply with quote
Animeking1108 wrote:
Your argument sounds like "the one I watched first did the crappy thing better."

Let's pretend for a moment that Frozen wasn't made to sell a bunch of Disney merchandise and instead look at the Pixar film Cars. Cars was a commercially driven movie made to sell merchandise, but it was generally well made. Yeah, it's a kids film but it's pretty well acted, written, directed etc. The other entries to the Cars franchise are less so. I think they're still beautifully ANIMATED (because the studio has a lot of money), but at minimum they're terribly written and direction, etc. is debatable.

I'm not saying the original Sailor Moon anime is Oscar or Emmy worthy, but it was a competent production that yeah, sold a lot of toys. I'm saying that the original COULD stand on its own because it HAD to build that audience in ORDER to sell toys. Like the Cars sequels, SMC doesn't put any effort into acquiring the audience because its selling to people who are ALREADY fans. Everything about it, especially the fact that it's released on the internet, screams "this is being sold to 30 somethings who were fans as children". They're selling Sailor Moon tampons and lingerie for goodness sake. When you do THAT and do it "on the cheap" which I think EVERYONE agrees happened with Crystal (ie. that Toei didn't really put any money (effort is the point of debate apparently) into it) then yes, I think that's more of a "crass attempt to cash in on nostalgia" and WORSE then making "a glorified toy commercial targeted to preTeens" out of a comic book. Because the second is at least upfront about what it is, whereas the first is more of a "bait and switch".
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DRosencraft



Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 314
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 2:48 pm Reply with quote
Arguing about motive is pointless. Whether it was done as a money grab or not is something only those involved can really know. They may have had all intents on making a good, quality, product. It doesn't change the fact that the outcome was...not great.

I understand completely the anger that some feel. As one of the most legendary anime of all time, it is expected that if you are going to do anything new with it, you will put forth max effort/budget/time to do it. Anything less, particularly when the effects of the lack thereof are evident, will invariably cause vitriol. This wans't an attempt on some new IP or something. This was a known, loved, story that many had high hopes for.

Ultimately, the failure here is the same as many other adaptations. I've claimed as much in the past - adaptation is an art, not a process. The opportunity to adapt a work is a chance to fix what is off or wrong about the original piece. Sometimes that means adding original content to build out characters or story. Sometimes that means changing events or storyline. Sometimes that means using a different art style. Both adaptations (the 90s and today's animes) do some combination of thsee three things. For this reason neither of these, nor any adaptation ever, will universally be considered even "as good as can be hoped for". At this point in time, however, between viewership numbers, sales numbers, and overall fan opinion, it would seem that the 90s version may be the better adaptation.
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sburstall



Joined: 02 Nov 2007
Posts: 177
Location: Ohio, USA
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:12 pm Reply with quote
I really only had two issues with Crystal, and it was probably mentioned a few times.
1) It's an ONA. A whole series that doesn't get to be showing on tv to help with ratings.
2) It was bi-weekly. I would understand that this might have been the excuse for give time for the artwork, IMO, that's just an excuse. FMA:B was weekly and it was all done wonderfully.

My $0.02.
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mangamuscle



Joined: 23 Apr 2006
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Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:43 pm Reply with quote
DRosencraft wrote:
For this reason neither of these, nor any adaptation ever, will universally be considered even "as good as can be hoped for".


Wait a minute! I think it is quite unfair for any adaptation to put such artificial limit and say they cannot surpass the original. How about Blade Runner? I read the original novel (Do Androids Dream Of Electric Sheep?) and the movie is richer no matter what metric you use. Same thing can be said of Ghost in the Shell. Another examples are The Godfather, Stand By Me (The Body), K-ON, etc. It is by no means easy, but it is feasible and IMO the bar was not high at all for an anime adaption to surpass the original Sailor Moon manga.
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H. Guderian



Joined: 29 Jan 2014
Posts: 1143
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 3:55 pm Reply with quote
I agree, we should hold adaptations to be as good as they can be.

A decent point of contention people bring up is how long and "slow" the original show is. But keep in mind it was a show meant to be watched weekly, casually. Of course nowadays most of us who watched it that way now have to 'marathon' watch the show, and many other shows.

There's a very special something to watching a show weekly as it airs that you just don't get in context decades later. Modern examples being Madoka, which was quite a rollercoaster if you watched it when it aired. The experience is different watching it later. Sailor Moon was a show I had to wake up at 5am for, defying my parents to sneak around to watch it. For many, the original Sailor Moon provided us joy and tears as a part of our lives that was good enough to work into our schedule. We didn't know when the filler was, I didn't even know what filler itself was, but that didn't impede our enjoyment of it. Sailor Moon Crystal I watch like a trainwreck, though it has improved somewhat recently. Still, the original show I have the BD sets for. I'd sooner buy Aldnoah Zero than SM:C.
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Sailor Sedna



Joined: 08 Jan 2015
Posts: 730
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:04 pm Reply with quote
QuinDecim wrote:
The amount of negativity in this thread is overwhelming. And to be honest, it's disappointing and frightening.


I think the reason why people are acting like that is because a lot of us who are disappointed with Crystal are big fans of the original manga and 90's anime, which were great, and we love them to death, and we're really sad and disappointed with Crystal's presentation.
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Sailor Sedna



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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:09 pm Reply with quote
HeeroTX wrote:

I'm not saying the original Sailor Moon anime is Oscar or Emmy worthy, but it was a competent production that yeah, sold a lot of toys.


I'd say it is; interestingly it actually won an "Anime of the Year" award in I believe 1993, and even Sailor Moon's Crisis Make Up henshin won an award.

Yes it does has its flaws, but it does have qualities that make it an extremely great anime.
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Sailor Sedna



Joined: 08 Jan 2015
Posts: 730
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:12 pm Reply with quote
@kasumicc

I think the manga is better than Crystal; but I agree with you; I think the 90's anime is superior. It actually was what made Sailor Moon the popular thing it is today, and the manga wasn't, even though it did start the franchise. I'm not saying it's bad; it's good.
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Sailor Sedna



Joined: 08 Jan 2015
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:13 pm Reply with quote
@penguintruth

I've read the manga, and from what I can recall from the first 3 episodes compared to the manga, a lot of the dialogue is not in the manga...
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Shwiggie



Joined: 18 Nov 2005
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Location: MS
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 9:05 pm Reply with quote
I was never a fan of Sailor Moon, but I watched it while in college. So when I heard there was a new version, I more or less watched it again. Same general story. One's less of a chore to get through based exclusively on time, but none of it ever set the woods on fire story-wise. I could care less about how faithful it is...if I want accuracy I'll pick up the books.

But, you know what? My 11-year old niece loves it. So whatever else it is, I can't see it as a failure.
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whiskeyii



Joined: 29 May 2013
Posts: 1669
PostPosted: Thu Jun 11, 2015 10:37 pm Reply with quote
Shwiggie wrote:
But, you know what? My 11-year old niece loves it. So whatever else it is, I can't see it as a failure.


I'm glad she likes it. Smile

Truth be told, I *could* see Crystal working as a gateway anime--if the anime scene were slated towards a younger audience, like back when Toonami was a weekday thing and we had WB Saturdays.

Part of the appeal of Classic for me was that I'd simply never seen something like it before, and so I had no comparisons. Now that I've been exposed to more shows, I've come to expect more from my anime. That's not a knock against your niece, of course; but with more seasoned fans making up the majority of anime fandoms at large, I can't fault folks for feeling frustrated when a show--and a show with a legacy, at that--fails to live up to expectations.
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Lili-Hime



Joined: 05 Jun 2014
Posts: 569
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2015 3:45 am Reply with quote
whiskeyii wrote:
I can't fault folks for feeling frustrated when a show--and a show with a legacy, at that--fails to live up to expectations.

Yep. Basically we expected FMA Brotherhood and got Rurouni Kenshin's Shin Kyoto Hen.... shudder


Sad thing is now that with all the SMC defenders saying "but it's closer to the manga!" people now assume the manga had no development for the other senshi. But the manga DID have those nice character moments... SMC just chose not to animate them. They actually cut out panels where this happened in favor of adding scenes of the Shittenou or Usagi/Mamoru romance. I don't think was sexism though, probably just an attempt to pander with more bishounens etc. The Shittenou got better development in the OG one though tbh... what with the Nephrite/Naru stuff and ZoicitexKunzite. Jadeite kinda got shafted though.
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