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Shiflan wrote:

Your terms are a bit off. The owner is the licensor. They can decide who they license things to.
The company who gets the content, such as Crunchyroll or Hulu, is the licensee.

Again, anybody can ASK. Whether or not they are given what they ask for is en entirely different question. A licensee can ask the licensor for whatever they feel like. The licensor doesn't have to give in, but if there is sufficient money involved they could choose to do so.

Woops yeah sorry, licensor/licensee. I keep messing it up.

They could ask, but as someone mentioned before, likely didn't even know what content was going to happen in the episode/how it's done and when it would happen. Plus, hey receive video so close to release date that there would be 0 time to request edits after confirming the content.

harminia wrote:

They could ask, but as someone mentioned before, likely didn't even know what content was going to happen in the episode/how it's done and when it would happen. Plus, hey receive video so close to release date that there would be 0 time to request edits after confirming the content.

You aren't reading what I have written. They don't have to do it on a case-by-case basis. They could have a boilerplate clause in their license contract which would say something like "licensor (Aniplex) agrees to censor any and all incidences of X, Y, and Z in content given to licensee (CR)." If Aniplex were to agree to that then it would become Aniplex's problem to proactively look for and censor anything it sent over to CR. Things like that are common in the business world, though like I said I have no idea if such a clause exists in any anime-related contract. But it certainly could.

Another possible explanation is that Aniplex and CR (or whomever) talked to each other, and Aniplex said "look guys, this episode gets a bit extreme. You want us to give you the censored version or the uncensored one?". The CR guys chat internally for a bit, maybe consult a lawyer for advice, then reply back: "Yeah, there's a lot of stuff on the news about sexual assault and whatnot, it's a hot potato these days so we'd like to play it safe. Give us the censored one".

Fact is we just don't know.

BasketBalljones wrote:

...Have a profile setting (can even make it default to be safe) to only show censored versions of shows.

Have the option to edit profile setting to allow uncensored version of shows to be played.

Have a disclaimer for default setting stating that all shows with explicit/mature/etc content will come with a warning of the type of content prior to viewing.

Have a disclaimer for uncensored setting stating that all shows with explicit/mature/etc content will come with a generic content warning.

This had occurred to me as well, and seems like a pretty easy way to resolve the problem for both broad groups of attitudes involved. Would be easy enough to make selecting your 'warning level' or lack thereof a required part of creating an account with the streaming service.

Last edited by Jonny Mendes on Tue Dec 11, 2018 8:14 pm; edited 2 times in total

Shiflan wrote:

Another possible explanation is that Aniplex and CR (or whomever) talked to each other, and Aniplex said "look guys, this episode gets a bit extreme. You want us to give you the censored version or the uncensored one?". The CR guys chat internally for a bit, maybe consult a lawyer for advice, then reply back: "Yeah, there's a lot of stuff on the news about sexual assault and whatnot, it's a hot potato these days so we'd like to play it safe. Give us the censored one".

Fact is we just don't know.

I think was probably something like that. In light on the current climate on US, the last thing they need is something like this to rock the boat.
Anime is already under surveillance because of fan-service and a sexual assault is even worse for American mainstream audience.
They probably discuss things internally between them and decided this was for the best and have more censor than other countries.

Also it is also a incentive to buy the BD version uncensored and uncut (I hope). Maybe that's the main reason. But still don't answer why have more censor than Japan TV channels already have.

But the most crazy part was that the scene looks more extreme with the censorship than it already is. Sometimes not showing can have the opposite effect than showing what is really going on.

[quote="whiskeyii"]

Chrono1000 wrote:

From how the industry as a whole works, uncensored versions are something of a gimmick and an incentive to get viewers to buy physical copies. Want the whole enchilada? Get ready to pony up. Twisted Evil

I'm honestly shocked at how people don't seem to catch on to this yet.

With all the stories of how notoriously difficult Japan tends to be when it comes to matters of license, and paranoia over "reverse importation," how do people not get that Japan likes to save the *ahem* "best" versions for themselves, and think that for some reason, negotiating with them is as easy as going "please give us the uncensored version of the scene with the five extra seconds of rape, it's the true way that scene was meant to be seen," and they'll just acquiesce?

LUNI_TUNZ wrote:

I'm honestly shocked at how people don't seem to catch on to this yet.

Getting uncensored content or too-racy-for-broadcast bonus episodes on Japanese physical releases has been a thing that's existed since the early 2000's. But I don't think that's what's going on here. I doubt the average American Crunchyroll or Hulu streamer is going to be a potential customer of very expensive Japanese BDs which don't have any sort of English language option.

Quote:

...and think that for some reason, negotiating with them is as easy as going "please give us the uncensored version of the scene with the five extra seconds of rape, it's the true way that scene was meant to be seen," and they'll just acquiesce?

That "some reason" is money. Like I mentioned before, this kind of thing happens often in business. A well known example was Wal-mart and the music industry back in the early 90's. Wal-mart, the #1 seller of music in the country, refused to stock CDs which contained foul language because they thought that harmed their "Family friendly" image. That resulted in the record industry creating two versions of many major albums: a censored version which could be sold at wal-mart, and the uncensored version which was sold at dedicated music shops. The same sort of thing could be happening here. Money talks.

IanKen wrote:

So, more lazy story telling. The authors excuses on twitter were laughable.

The women in SAO exist to be rescued by the guys (GGO the exception). That was obvious from the very beginning when Asuna (setup as an ace in the first 12) spent the next 12 episodes locked in a cage with a creeper while in the real world apparently nobody knows how to sniff packets and figure out where she (and the others) was logged in at.

Rolling Eyes

That may be true, but there are thousands of fairy tails, fables or stories of the guy saving the damsel in distress in every corner of the globe. To say it's lazy can be true but it is a plot devise that has survied for years. It is just a matter of how each creator executes it. Sometimes it's a hit, others it's a miss. It all depends on taste.

IMHO outright censorship such as this is unacceptable. When spoiler[Asuna] got almost raped in the Fairy Dance arc, those scenes weren’t censored.

TsukasaElkKite wrote:

IMHO outright censorship such as this is unacceptable. When spoiler[Asuna] got almost raped in the Fairy Dance arc, those scenes weren’t censored.[/spoiler]

Yeah, but they weren't half as graphic. And if they were, then I wouldn't mind a lick if they were censored.

Ultimately I don't get why people are causing such a fuss. I mean if there were huge edits then yeah, slippery slope, whatever. But they're not. And I'd really get it if SAO were actually the kind of show that regularly gets graphic, because then censorship of one thing would be notable. But at the end of the day, SAO isn't that type of show. It's a violent show for sure, but not a sex show.

And yeah, maybe I'm being dramatic, but I don't think complaining about minor edits to an attempted rape scene is the hill anyone should die on. I mean hell, the author said it was in bad taste. There are better battles to fight.

The full scene it's on the Internet, it took me 2 minutes to find it, it's more or less 15% worse than Asuna's scene on the second season, however, Kirito's reaction it's ultimately what makes the scene more impactful.

Anyways, Valvrave the Liberator (crappy anime) has a full rape scene and was (is?) on CR, thus I do doubt they were the ones censoring the thing.

It's so easy to criticize the content or the people watching the content by assigning value judgment. People have to understand that no matter how repugnant the fictional content, it does have a right to exist. I'd rather live in a world where I can choose to watch violent, gory, sexualized depravity than in a world where the choice is already made for me. People have to take more personal responsibility for the things that they consume and parents for the content that their kids consume. All this complaining is really an exercise in outsourcing responsibility which, if you ask me, is something that characterizes this era of entitlement.

What frustrates me the most about this censorship is how it could drive up piracy. I mean, it won't happen from that incident alone, obviously, but I've seen people in many social media circles talk about how they'd just unsubscribe from legal streaming sites if this became commonplace and unlike most other times, where I'm able to argue with them, I honestly didn't know what to tell them. People pay good money to see uncensored content (As uncensored as can be), now it feels like at least Aniplex is telling us they care more about those who might be offended by the content than they do their paying customers.

I really hope this was an isolated incident and not the new norm. And I really hope we won't be treated to censored BDs later down the line too. It seems like every corner of society these days is embracing censorship.

So long as this stupid censorship doesn’t make it to the US blu-ray or god forbid the Japanese blu-ray release I’ll be okay with it. But seriously though this is really starting to get old and it makes me wish that Anime should never have gone mainstream in the first place.

Shiflan wrote:

Getting uncensored content or too-racy-for-broadcast bonus episodes on Japanese physical releases has been a thing that's existed since the early 2000's. But I don't think that's what's going on here. I doubt the average American Crunchyroll or Hulu streamer is going to be a potential customer of very expensive Japanese BDs which don't have any sort of English language option.

I'm genuinely confused why you think Japanese BDs are the only option here. If the Alicization arc gets a physical release overseas (and it definitely will), that's where the uncensored English version is going to show up. Not on a streaming website, because that would cut into potential sales to just "give away" the "best" version like that. Though if Aniplex decides to not play ball and hogs the uncensored version to themselves, that's hardly the English distributor's fault.

whiskeyii wrote:

Shiflan wrote:

I suspect there is some sort of contractual agreement between the streaming services / TV stations and the licensors which stipulates what level of content each one is willing to broadcast and the licensors supply "custom edits" for each one. That would explain why different versions of the episode were sent to different outlets. Why would the licensor go through the effort of producing different various with various degrees of censorship if that was not requested by each of the broadcasters, either on a case-by-case or broad contractual basis?

I think you misunderstand the broadcasting process. Broadcasters don't get to make demands of the studio. The studio head decided to make one version, which was then edited into two: one for certain Japanese stations and their privately owned channel, and one for a more general/worldwide broadcast. The studio then delivered the edited versions to the appropriate studios and that's that. Broadcasters have their hands tied; they can only air what they're given.

Broadcasters can and do apply their own censorship (in addition to that already on the materials they receive). Commonly the more invasive kind where half the screen is blacked out because it is easier to do. See Asobi ni Ikuyo where they had novelty censoring *and* in some episodes also mostly blacked out screens in the simulcasted version, and Strike Witches where you can find blogs comparing the differences by where it was broadcast.

TheAnonymousUsual wrote:

I'm not sure that anyone's mentioned this, and perhaps it doesn't matter, but during this scene, in the context of the story, spoiler[Kirito is the only living, breathing human in the scene. The rest are bottom-up AIs. The perpetrators, victims, and Eugeo are all computer simulations using fluctlights. None of them are actual living, breathing people connected to an interface like an AmuSphere. So technically, it's just Kirito observing the behavior of a bunch of 1's and 0's in this simulation, perhaps wondering if the decision matrix will lead to a violation of the Taboo Index. Technically, it's a pure computer simulation of rape, with only one actual human observer.] Maybe that makes it more disturbing, though?

However spoiler[these are not bottom-up AIs. They’re close in a sense to clones, since they are based on the real human minds of babies].

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