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INTEREST: Kameha Con Responds to Recent Guest Cancellations


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unready



Joined: 07 Jun 2009
Posts: 391
Location: Illinois, USA
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 11:54 am Reply with quote
Nonaka Machine Gun B wrote:
unready wrote:
This particular convention has mutual liability contract terms. Neither party to the contract can unilaterally cancel the agreement without penalty. Maybe in the future, they'll change the terms of the contract they use based on lessons learned this time. Meanwhile, it's not the future yet.


The "penalty" is no one who pulled out can get their money back....

Perhaps you are confusing guests with attendees. Mignogna, Rial, etc., are guests. They're not paying to be there. They're getting paid to be attractions. People who pay for tickets are attendees.
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Mewshuji



Joined: 24 Mar 2019
Posts: 3
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:02 pm Reply with quote
I'd like to point out any posturing that "KamehaCon is gonna sue!!" should be ignored. If KamehaCon does go after them, they'll look EVEN WORSE and people will just not want to be guests there any longer. They'll tank their con even further. They already have a DashCon level disaster on their hands in terms of PR.

TarsTarkas wrote:
Mewshuji wrote:
Second, no one's being killed- the reason McCarthyism was even compared to the witch hunt in the first place.


You don't have to be killed to be destroyed. Unless you are planning on living the rest of your life as a hermit and living off of the land, social death can be just as effective physical death, and may eventually lead to that anyway. This is not an all or nothing thing, depends on the situation.

But the idea that no serious long term damage can happen is a fallacy.
Here's the thing though. As I said before, and as we've seen, a number of these people who have been accused of being a sex pest in some way have been able to make some sort of comeback after just laying low for a while. Certainly not all, but Vic's low profile enough in the grand scheme of things to have pulled it off. He's no Weinstein with a frickin' company named after him.

But nah, he's thrown it all away by instead throwing his hat in with alt-righters. It's... bewildering to say the least, especially as a guy who claims to not be homophobic.
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Ashabel



Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Posts: 313
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:34 pm Reply with quote
unready wrote:
Perhaps you are confusing guests with attendees. Mignogna, Rial, etc., are guests. They're not paying to be there. They're getting paid to be attractions. People who pay for tickets are attendees.


The big problem is the artists. Artists do pay to rent a spot at the artists' alley in order to hopefully make that money back by selling their art during the convention. Normally artists uncomfortable with Vic Mignogna's presence would be able to pull out of the con, but because the organizers waited until the very last second to announce his presence, the refund deadline is already over and they have no choice but to attend if they want to recoup their losses.

So basically, Kamehacon organizers used smarmy tactics in order to make it impossible for anyone in the artist alley to pull out without suffering severe monetary loss.
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Aresef



Joined: 22 Jun 2005
Posts: 635
Location: MD
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 12:38 pm Reply with quote
Ashabel wrote:
unready wrote:
Perhaps you are confusing guests with attendees. Mignogna, Rial, etc., are guests. They're not paying to be there. They're getting paid to be attractions. People who pay for tickets are attendees.


The big problem is the artists. Artists do pay to rent a spot at the artists' alley in order to hopefully make that money back by selling their art during the convention. Normally artists uncomfortable with Vic Mignogna's presence would be able to pull out of the con, but because the organizers waited until the very last second to announce his presence, the refund deadline is already over and they have no choice but to attend if they want to recoup their losses.

So basically, Kamehacon organizers used smarmy tactics in order to make it impossible for anyone in the artist alley to pull out without suffering severe monetary loss.


Yeah, it isn't the artists' problem Kamehacon drew up a bad contract, or that they decided to let Vic show up (a bad decision) over buying him out or whatever.
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Greed1914



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 3641
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:05 pm Reply with quote
Mewshuji wrote:
I'd like to point out any posturing that "KamehaCon is gonna sue!!" should be ignored. If KamehaCon does go after them, they'll look EVEN WORSE and people will just not want to be guests there any longer. They'll tank their con even further. They already have a DashCon level disaster on their hands in terms of PR.


Yeah, it's pretty hard to see a convention centered on Dragonball that takes place in the Dallas area suing multiple actors associated with Funimation since that would mean their potential guest list going forward would shrink considerably, and probably no longer include people that are active in the series. Just because they could doesn't mean it's a good idea. On the flip side, it definitely reads like Vic could sue breach of contract since this situation, and he doesn't have much to lose in doing so. Now, I do think it is a fair question as to what compensation he would receive aside from his appearance fee, but my guess is that those fees are less important that the "salvaging his reputation" angle.

I'm not going to be too surprised if we see other conventions have to deal with this going forward since it's pretty standard to have a contract for guests, and Vic has very little to lose from making use of that. Sure, conventions and businesses might have even less reason to work with him in the future, but things were already at that point.
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brammerhammer23



Joined: 06 Jun 2013
Posts: 62
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:37 pm Reply with quote
The reason so many people are commenting that Kamehacon could sue the VAs is because ANN decided to go with the angle and heavily implied that the GUESTS could sue the CONVENTION for their cancellations. Its once again a very one sided article. ANN clearly has an agenda and of course the majority of the readers of ANN agree with them.
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Drunk Samurai



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 67
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 1:47 pm Reply with quote
Ashabel wrote:
Drunk Samurai wrote:
That is just entirely false. Only the people saying that stuff are the ones responsible. Otherwise by your logic both sides would need to address each person saying something individually.


I'm sorry, but that card just won't play out the way you want. If Nick Rekieta's opinions wouldn't at least partially reflect Vic Mignogna's, then Vic would publicly speak up against Rekieta's decision to air out what is supposed to be private logs of conversations with Kamehacon's organizers in a public Twitter post. As it is, Rekieta was apparently provided with sensitive information and then proceeded to use it to publicly fuel a harassment campaign, while Vic decided to ride along in hopes that it will somehow salvage his reputation.

Like CrowLia said, Vic supporters are way too eager to have their cake and to eat it too. You have chosen to throw your lot with an infamous Neo-Nazi movement, except now that it resulted in Vic's supporters developing a reputation for doxxing, harassment, bomb threats and fake legalese, you're all suddenly "Nu uh those people don't actually represent our opinions, we swears it."

It doesn't matter what you do, you won't be able to change a tune halfway. In the end, Vic's supporters have chosen to salvage his career by turning him into a Neo-Nazi mascot and that's what you're going to live with.


I'm talking about Twitter comments too. Twitter is a public site. Also anybody who claims the alt-right are involved or people are alt-right because of this are people who deserve to be laughed at massively.
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Ambimunch



Joined: 30 Aug 2012
Posts: 2012
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:00 pm Reply with quote
In actuality these guests don't make or break a show. Having 5 less voice actors at such a big con won't have any impact at all. The cons is for fans to interact and have fun, NOT to worship these voice actors. Fans will still attend and socialize, buy merch, laugh and make jokes. And it'll happen again next year. And then the year after that. And so on.

Ashabel wrote:
It's about time Vic's supporters realized that their behavior does reflect on how he is perceived as a person.

>reads this post
>reads about a dozen other aggressive/insulting posts you made
>oh the irony
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Errinundra
Moderator


Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Posts: 5771
Location: Melbourne, Oz
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:13 pm Reply with quote
Posts deleted. Remember, please avoid blaming victims, especially by indulging in conspiracy theories about them. A number of posters have received warnings about their conduct.
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Anthony.P



Joined: 16 Mar 2007
Posts: 52
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:15 pm Reply with quote
Drunk Samurai wrote:
I'm talking about Twitter comments too. Twitter is a public site. Also anybody who claims the alt-right are involved or people are alt-right because of this are people who deserve to be laughed at massively.


The presence of Nick "Blackface" Rekieta, the ComicsGate-affailiated BoundingIntoComics site reporting Vic/Monica/Chris Sabat conspiracy theories, and the sheer wealth of Gamergate-affiliated YouTubers/Twitter users siding with Vic/Nick and screeching about "NPCs" proves otherwise.

I know your entire shtick's been posting immensely bad-faith arguments, but you could at least, y'know, not lie about it.
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Errinundra
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Joined: 14 Jun 2008
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Location: Melbourne, Oz
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 2:17 pm Reply with quote
Talking about the alt-right is veering off topic. Let's leave it there.
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ranran-001



Joined: 25 Oct 2018
Posts: 305
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:11 pm Reply with quote
Aresef wrote:
Ashabel wrote:
unready wrote:
Perhaps you are confusing guests with attendees. Mignogna, Rial, etc., are guests. They're not paying to be there. They're getting paid to be attractions. People who pay for tickets are attendees.


The big problem is the artists. Artists do pay to rent a spot at the artists' alley in order to hopefully make that money back by selling their art during the convention. Normally artists uncomfortable with Vic Mignogna's presence would be able to pull out of the con, but because the organizers waited until the very last second to announce his presence, the refund deadline is already over and they have no choice but to attend if they want to recoup their losses.

So basically, Kamehacon organizers used smarmy tactics in order to make it impossible for anyone in the artist alley to pull out without suffering severe monetary loss.


Yeah, it isn't the artists' problem Kamehacon drew up a bad contract, or that they decided to let Vic show up (a bad decision) over buying him out or whatever.


Kameha Con may have written out a bad contract, but the damages Vic could ever get from Kameha for breaking the contract couldn't amount to more than the price of small fries from mcdonalds. The convention is the one most likely to be paying Vic to show up. If they cancel, I'd imagine Vic gets to keep the money, and Kameha Con is out several hundred dollars for hotel and travel fees. Lesson learned.
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supersqueak



Joined: 14 Aug 2009
Posts: 187
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:14 pm Reply with quote
Ambimunch wrote:
In actuality these guests don't make or break a show. Having 5 less voice actors at such a big con won't have any impact at all. The cons is for fans to interact and have fun, NOT to worship these voice actors. Fans will still attend and socialize, buy merch, laugh and make jokes. And it'll happen again next year. And then the year after that. And so on.

Ashabel wrote:
It's about time Vic's supporters realized that their behavior does reflect on how he is perceived as a person.

>reads this post
>reads about a dozen other aggressive/insulting posts you made
>oh the irony


Thats only true because the ones dropping out are mostly not that relevant to Dragon Ball but that doesn't mean that people don't care what guests are going to be there. If Chris Sabat were to drop out a lot of people would want their money back for sure.
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brammerhammer23



Joined: 06 Jun 2013
Posts: 62
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:22 pm Reply with quote
ranran-001 wrote:


Kameha Con may have written out a bad contract, but the damages Vic could ever get from Kameha for breaking the contract couldn't amount to more than the price of small fries from mcdonalds. The convention is the one most likely to be paying Vic to show up. If they cancel, I'd imagine Vic gets to keep the money, and Kameha Con is out several hundred dollars for hotel and travel fees. Lesson learned.


I'll reply to you very respectfully and wish to be replied to in kind. Usually how conventions work is the con guarantees the guest X-amount of money to show up. This money is usually is from autographs or photo ops. If the guests hits the guarantee than everyone wins. If the guest doesn't hit the guarantee than the con usually has to pay the guest the difference. A convention near me in Boise, Idaho guarantees the attendees free autographs so they have to give the guest their fee all upfront just for them to show up. Every convention is different but this is usually the norm.
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ranran-001



Joined: 25 Oct 2018
Posts: 305
PostPosted: Tue Mar 26, 2019 4:36 pm Reply with quote
brammerhammer23 wrote:


I'll reply to you very respectfully and wish to be replied to in kind. Usually how conventions work is the con guarantees the guest X-amount of money to show up. This money is usually is from autographs or photo ops. If the guests hits the guarantee than everyone wins. If the guest doesn't hit the guarantee than the con usually has to pay the guest the difference. A convention near me in Boise, Idaho guarantees the attendees free autographs so they have to give the guest their fee all upfront just for them to show up. Every convention is different but this is usually the norm.


What is Kamehon losing here? They pay Vic the money, he get's cancelled, that's their loss, and they take that as the cost of doing business with someone who sexually harassed several con guests.

The organizers bringing Vic back is an underhanded tactic to try to get good will through cancelling his appearance in a public way, and then hope no one remembers any of it within a few weeks of the convention, because they want to make money off Vic's fandom.
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