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EP. REVIEW: Full Dive


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Cryten



Joined: 19 Jan 2019
Posts: 363
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 12:07 am Reply with quote
Its not wrong for some to like the show as much as it is not wrong for others to dislike it. Getting the show or not is arguing semantics. We have our experiences of the show and what we think of the story and designs. I think it would be a kindness if we stopped arguing about if other people properly interpreted their own experiences with the show.

I get the same feeling that I got with oresuki with this show. Where the show wants to act intelligent and subversive with its content but only manages to do the exact same thing as the shows its subverting but sticking its tongue out at the world while its doing it.
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Hiroki not Takuya



Joined: 17 Apr 2012
Posts: 1782
PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 10:53 pm Reply with quote
Don't know why you reinterpret what I said because I'm not doing any of that. Just pointing out that the show has little reference to SAO, how it has been a consistent comedy and it's plot trajectory has been deliberate. If someone thinks the opposite, I don't get that but I'd like to understand if someone is willing to discuss...How about the top 5 ways Full Dive is trying to be a parody of SAO?
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Covnam



Joined: 31 May 2005
Posts: 2416
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2021 5:47 pm Reply with quote
They're really stretching things this week. He was upset about the cost of the game, but the console being risked when it costs 10x more doesn't give him more pause than what we saw?
Also, I don't care how good their lawyers were, destroying a separate piece of property would have to be against the law.
This game is going for realism, but these goblins move faster than can be seen (though for some reason only chase defenseless people with a slow jog), but ok, lets say that still fits in the world, how did Hiro suddenly move faster than even they could move? If they're going for realism, shouldn't he only be able to run as fast as a human can?
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DRosencraft



Joined: 27 Apr 2010
Posts: 444
PostPosted: Thu May 20, 2021 7:13 pm Reply with quote
I don't know anything about the author/writer for this show. But it wouldn't surprise me one bit if they are actually a gamer and this entire creation is a referendum not on VR game isekais, but instead on gamers in general. I look at the MC here, the "helper" Reona, and the online guide he watches; it's all the worst aspects of modern day gaming.

The MC is a hallmark more so of the folks that tend to flood the social media accounts of a game, proclaiming all the things they hate about the game, about how terrible it is, yet have been playing the game, with all those complaints from the start, for months or years. Meanwhile you have the Reona type who acts as though they are a dev in hiding trying to passive aggressively coax others into not quitting. And then you have the online guide creator, the would-be Twitch streamer or YouTube content creator, who bad mouths players who they proclaim aren't as good as they are, while doling out advice on how to progress in the game. The "stuck in a game" elements feel to me are mainly only there to further enhance those "bad gaming" elements.
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Hiroki not Takuya



Joined: 17 Apr 2012
Posts: 1782
PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2021 11:37 pm Reply with quote
^I think you have a great point and I agree with your analysis.

@Covnam- Relative to Hiro's unrealistic "power-up", in trying to extend benefit of the doubt it may be a reference to "super-human" feats some people have executed IRL when stressed far enough in a live/death situation. That may have been the concept instead of breaking from the "realism" angle when convenient. However, the goblins were very conveniently slow during that silly extended conversation about whether Hiro should just fight them. And it is concerning that they were unrealistically fast otherwise. I have myself seen a house mouse "disappear" in a blur of motion like that IRL but nothing as large as a child will be able to do that!
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everydaygamer



Joined: 10 Jul 2009
Posts: 616
PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2021 12:20 pm Reply with quote
I feel like if you've ever taken part in any unfun aspect of a video game then it's easy to understand Hiro's mindset.

Yeah it sucks, yes it's frustrating and yes you keep questioning why you don't just give up but there is still that part of you that is determined to see it through to the end. You get stuck in this mindset of "I've already come this far I might as well keep going", so to me, it's not hard to understand why Hiro keeps playing despite constantly questioning his decision to do so. He wants to convince himself it's not worth continuing but the part of him that wants to keep going refuses to listen to reason.
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Cryten



Joined: 19 Jan 2019
Posts: 363
PostPosted: Sat May 29, 2021 4:36 am Reply with quote
I dont think anyone is going to argue against the assessment that it is hiro illogical emotional side that is the only thing keeping him in the game.

For me the question remains is the series just gonna continue mining pity out of trampling on Hiro for trying and failing. Or is it gonna actually make a point about Hiro's character as a person. It still sounds like he is a caricature of a failing mindset. Maybe thats all the series wants to do.

Another question then will be can the series really pull a Hiro over coming himself story when it spent so long saying how bad a character he is. Does the series want a Macbeth where you look forward to his demise or a Count of Montecristo where you look are glad for avoiding the cliff.

Is the only point this series going to make that giving up because of a traumatising experience is bad? And that such people should just be looked down on like his sister does or traumatised again like ole triangle breasts and the game does with no sympathy.
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Amuro1X



Joined: 02 Sep 2009
Posts: 77
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 12:57 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Is this unchecked misery in having everyone dunk on you for how weak you are and watching a couple of chuds walk off with the girl you thought liked you part of the self-insert fantasy of Hiro's character?


This seems like a weird question to ask because Hiro is pretty explicitly NOT a self-insert character. He's the anti-Kirito. His suffering is meant to be enjoyed by everyone that absolutely hates Kirito and that type of protagonist.
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Tuor_of_Gondolin



Joined: 20 Apr 2009
Posts: 3465
Location: Bellevue, WA
PostPosted: Thu Jun 03, 2021 6:06 pm Reply with quote
Ultimately, the only thing that can pull Hiro out of the funk of his life is *himself*. And for it to be effective, he has to do it without irrational self-deceptions. Otherwise he's only running from his own shortcomings, not addressing them. This is, IMO, what the game is showing him, and it has to be in a game because he can't handle it in RL. This is the "message" that I'm getting out of this show.

Every time he "reaches out" and basically tries to get someone else to lead him through life, it gets shoved back into his face. And when he makes irrational assumptions about himself and his abilities (as well as others), he is rudely set straight in a way that he cannot mistake. His only two successes so far, with his "best friend" and during the Goblin Assault, were due to him deciding for himself and then acting without any self-deception. IMO, he's going to learn is the only way to advance in the game, and in life.
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Hiroki not Takuya



Joined: 17 Apr 2012
Posts: 1782
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 12:50 am Reply with quote
^^Great observation. I'd say you are right on the money because otherwise, the last few episodes would seeming have little point. It hasn't seemed the writing to date excluding that was so haphazard as that would be expected...
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Cryten



Joined: 19 Jan 2019
Posts: 363
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 12:57 am Reply with quote
Hmm are you saying that the series believes that you should not rely on others when going through a crisis? I understand making choices and taking steps yourself but it seems very mean spirited to reject guidance and counselling as positive forces in your life / the MC's life.

On one side using others as a crutch is a bad habit a lot of people engage in. But treating everyone as exploitative of ones self feels too far in the other direction. It kind of disrupts the idea of self improvement by showing so much self destructive behaviour in attempts to reach out.
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Tuor_of_Gondolin



Joined: 20 Apr 2009
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Location: Bellevue, WA
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 3:20 am Reply with quote
I think the show is being more extreme than necessary, but it's doing so to make a point and because the MC seems incapable of getting it using less severe methods. Some people just won't learn unless you go about it the hard way. If more gentle methods would work, he wouldn't be in his current situation in RL.

Before you can accept help, you need to be in the right mindset. You can see that he is running from his problems, in denial about some things, believes irrational things about himself in other ways, and rarely puts forth any effort to really understand what is going on around him. Basically, the game is doing the opposite of enabling his self-defeating attitudes. It's highlighting them and forcing him to start dealing with them. Notice that he did get super-speed when he did something "right".

I suppose I could be wrong about what is going on here, but I think my theory fits the data. The various things that have happened have seemed a little *too* tailored to the MC's RL issues for it to be coincidental, IMO.
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Covnam



Joined: 31 May 2005
Posts: 2416
PostPosted: Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:33 pm Reply with quote
Definitely my fault for expecting something more than what we got in regards to Reona Rolling Eyes

At least the hand on the purse bit was amusing
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Cryten



Joined: 19 Jan 2019
Posts: 363
PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:28 am Reply with quote
Gotta lova all that realism with the super powered yandere action Smile. I love poking fun at this series. But to be real, if this game was based on major realism most of the events in this series would not of happened. Not the torturer kink of cutting legs off before questioning, not the ghost hauntings, not sudden deaths by peeling fruit in the most dangerous ways and not the super powered yanderes. Nor the moments of power for the MC either.

And all those exaggerations are the best bits of the series. It just seems that the game only needs the crutch of realism to dunk on the MC.
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Hiroki not Takuya



Joined: 17 Apr 2012
Posts: 1782
PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:40 am Reply with quote
Just caught the English dub and the cast isn't bad at all. JYB is himself as nearly always, but at least there wasn't any "this sucks..!". The Funi localization took "liberties" with the Japanese as they are wont to do, but here it adds to the humor by a lot "who gives a sh*t about what happened under some fake-ass imaginary tree??" "I don't know you from dick..." Smile
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