Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: 86 Season 2
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18205 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Not really. In terms of how it represents and accurately and thoroughly adapts (and even in some places expands on) the source material, this is one of the best LN adaptations I've ever seen. To see the story past where the episode ends, you can start reading with novel 4 and not feel like you're missing anything. |
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dm
 Subscriber Posts: 1361 |
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The problem is, I already feel like I'm missing things --- perhaps inattention on my part, or the breaks in the production schedule leading to a drawn-out adaptation (and haze about details I missed in earlier episodes), or something else. So I plan to start with the first novel to pick those details up. The whole deal with Kiri/Frederica/Shin seemed to come out of nowhere, with Kiri just a screaming face in Shin's visions, for example, and why should Shin be repeating the Kiri-Frederica story? Yes, I can reconstruct those bits now (primarily from conversation here), but I think I'd like to see them worked out in the novels. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18205 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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You're not really missing anything here. The deal you mentioned seemed to come out of nowhere in the anime because that's the way it was in the novels, too. Shin didn't know anything about his family situation (he was too young when his parents died to have had anything explained to him) and Frederika doesn't know much, either, because of her age. Shin, Kirei, and Frederika are all distantly connected because they're part of a bigger family tree, but that's all that's really known by the end of novel 3. More details gradually come out in later books. About the only semi-relevant detail I can think of that's in novel 2 but not the anime is an off-hand comment indicating that Shin's parents were both notorious figures in the Empire, though they had apparently moved to the Republic by the time Shin was born. That doesn't come up again until much later (maybe novel 5?) if it does at all, so it's possible it might pop up if we get another season. |
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Stretch2424
 Posts: 166 |
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I'm glad to hear I'm not the only viewer who feels this way. I listed 86 in the recent poll as one of the five best shows of the year (IMO)--but I also feel it is sometimes a maddeningly difficult one to follow. It's hard for me to keep track of what matters and what doesn't. I have been told that in the light novels the government of San Magnolia intended to carry out a Holocaust-like annihilation of all 86ers, but I swear I never recall hearing that claim made in any of the anime episodes--or if I did, it didn't seem like something I should take seriously and I soon forgot it. Once a person has read the light novels, is it even possible for them to accurately estimate whether this show would make complete sense to someone who hasn't? |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18205 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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The bulk of episode 8 involves Lena finding out about this. Annette suggests it in her conversation with Lena, then her uncle outright says, "the 86 need to die" and explains why in his conversation with her. Lena's later Para-RAID conversation with Spearhead also shows that the 86s themselves are quite aware that this is what's happening. Granted, the novel does provide a little more detail that doesn't make it into the anime (such as how records about the 86s were supposed to be destroyed but weren't at the time of the country's rescue by Giad), but what was going on was plain enough from the anime episode that Callum even accused the series of going overkill on the point in his review of the episode. (I don't entirely agree, as I felt it served to show how isolated Lena was on her stance and in her ignorance.) |
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Telu
 Posts: 119 |
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Finally, now I can watch the whole thing.
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MagicianMan
Posts: 120 |
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I can count on my fingers the number of times that any anime has legitimately made me cry. 86 has now done it with both of it's last episodes. It may be cheesy, I'll give you that, but by God it earned that cheese.
I had a chance to read the first two books during the hiatus, and I feel like this is one of the rare occasions where the anime production really manages to elevate the source material to new hights. The extra context and detail in the books is great, but the anime manages to add so much more emotional weight and nuance to the story. I can safely call 86 one of my favorite anime I've ever seen at this point. Season two overall wasn't as good as season one. It kind of dragged in the middle, and faking out the death of Shin's friends again at the end was kind of weak. But I'm willing to forgive it for how well it nailed the landing. I agree that season 1 could have been where the story ended and it would have been good, and season 2's ending is the same, but if the team can pull it together and keep this train going I'm here for it. |
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b-dragon
Posts: 459 |
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Not nearly as remarkable an episode as the last one- though thats a very high bar to clear- its still a well put together episode that leaves the season, and series if no more is forthcoming, with just the right amount of closure. And watching Lena and Shin's facial expressions gave me all the emotional impact I wanted.
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MFrontier
Posts: 11323 |
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Ernst back to being Best Dad, especially now that they survived and he doesn't have to throw away his country because of it. Time to celebrate setting-specific Christmas! Well, for everyone except Frederica because she's got homework.
It's nice to see the team resettling back into civilian life, except now it feels more genuine. Also Kurena living the boyfriend meme and Shin making something tasty was hilarious. Shin really has come a long way, finding a new peace and drive to fight without sacrificing himself, and making peace with what he once was and what he wants to be now for the sake of his comrades and the girl he found again. He's not going to be consumed by death but he'll keep fighting to liberate those stolen by the Legion and to create a place outside the battlefield for those he cares about. He's even able to visit Eugene again and resolve things with Marcel and Nina, while taking up Eugene's dream of taking Nina to the sea for something he wants to do for a certain someone else... I liked the addition of Lena talking to her fathers' grave and the scene of her and Annette. I think a lot of people in cour 1 probably wrote off Annette, so it's great seeing how much she's grown and how she and Lena have re-affirmed and strengthened their friendship since their last major scene together, and that Annette will stick by Lena through thick and thin. The Republic getting a hefty dose of karma as now they're the impoverished and destitute having to make do with mercy from the same kind of people they basically wrote off as cattle and necessary sacrifices just for being different. And the Eighty-Six are finally free to find their own path. Those Eighty-Six looked so uncomfortable in the picture Lena's former commander had on his desk. And did he photoshop his families' hair color so he could seem more progressive? I'm glad Lena's getting away from this guy. spoiler[DUSTIN! I'd recognize those glasses anywhere!] Really bringing things full circle with another Fido montage, except instead of a montage of all their loss and desperate hopes and dreams, this time it's all about how much they're looking forward to seeing Lena again and the possibility of the future...as well as shipping Shin and Lena. The proper, face-to-face, reunion was perfect. Just the moment it dawns on Lena and she lets loose the waterworks after saying Shin's name straight to his face...it was just perfect. And then Shin is blushing and they just stare at each other like they're the only people in the world. And then Shin immediately defends her when Fido rushes through! It was an amazing and beautiful sequence, complete with a new insert song! Just a terrific ending to a terrific adaption, so much so that I really hope we get more and they're able to keep delivering on adapting such an amazing story in anime format with this same level of dedication and love. But at the very least I can survive on that last scene of Shin and Lena's hands reaching for each other and forming the title of the series, signaling their finally being together and how pivotal their relationship is to the story. When you get right down to it, 86 was always a boy-meets-girl story... |
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dm
Subscriber Posts: 1361 |
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PS., it's somewhat disorienting to go from 86 to Akebi's Sailor Uniform and have Frederica pipe up as Komichi's little sister.
PPS., last episode I was taken out of the moment a bit when Lena shows up on the battlefield still in a dress-uniform with thigh-high stockings instead of fatigues, especially after the discussion of that aspect of her uniform in the first season thread. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18205 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Yeah, that's the one complaint about the final couple of episodes that I can't refute. You could maybe argue that she came directly from a command center, and so didn't have time to change, but it's still pure fan-pandering. As for the review of episode 23, Callum makes a good point about the "Fido-cam" and how much it added to the series both times it was used. (And I agree with other comments about how the different ways it was used reflected the changing circumstance.) It's one of the first things that I would point to when justifying this as a stellar adaptation. I was also struck throughout the episode by the deep layers of symbolism and parallelism in numerous scenes; did you notice how the train tracks, which have been used throughout the series to symbolically indicate which direction characters are going, led to the 86s + Lena together in the final scene? Or how there were now six birds flying in the flock instead of the five seen at the end of episode 11? Lots and lots of neat touches in this episode if you go looking for them, which is why I'll easily forgive any degree of cheesiness present. |
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T.Silver
Posts: 163 |
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>fan pandering
Uh I think you mean Asato pandering. She's pretty unapologetic of sacrificing some practicality in order for her characters to look good, hence why none of the 86 wear pilot helmets in their mechs. She said something a long the lines of not wanting helmets to cover their pretty heads/faces. So I can respect that. Last edited by T.Silver on Mon Mar 21, 2022 10:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18205 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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^
While it's definitely Asato-pandering, it's not just that. Girls in Uniform is a thing on its own, after all. |
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TheBeastAR
Posts: 27 |
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Is it really cheesy? I've seen a lot of media with scenes that are very sincere and honest get described as 'cheesy'. Why is that the case? Maybe it's just me but I wouldn't call the 86 ending cheesy.
That aside, what an incredible series. I could not have asked for a better ending. Extremely satisfying and joyous. |
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Zeino
Posts: 1098 |
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Yeah, I wouldn't called it cheesy at all. More like earnest or sincere. Shin and his friends have been though so much suffering, hardship and trauma that I say they've fully earned a happy end on their part. Lena too. I can understand that some people would have preferred it to end with season 1 much more downbeat but bittersweet ending giving the nature of war and racism but I'm glad that 86 wants to try move beyond such pessimistic thoughts and find hope and the things that worth living for. To try an imagine a future beyond the battlefield. And in the dark and often despairing times we are living in, I think that is a most worthwhile and meaningful message to deliver. I can only hope more of this fantastic series will appear someday. Until then, I feel fully satisfied with the ending we got. Not something I could say of most light novel based anime. I still would have liked to see more of Lena's story in trying to save as many people as possible in the Republic and how she came to be on the battlefield so near Shin and managed to help him so effectively. Good candidate for an OVA or two, I feel. Last edited by Zeino on Tue Mar 22, 2022 9:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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