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Is American animation's popularity overlooked?


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mdo7



Joined: 23 May 2007
Posts: 6262
Location: Katy, Texas, USA
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2022 4:31 pm Reply with quote
Spawn29 wrote:
Most animation for older people in the west are usally sitcoms/comedy movies. One reason why anime became big in North America because wanted to watch cartoons that are not for kids. The list of serious western animated shows and movies is still pretty small. NA and Europe still has ways to go.


Of all the stuff you listed, you forgot these 2:

TItan A.E: Released in 2000, this is Don Bluth's darkest and "mature" animation when it first came out. I've found out that back then, people internationally (including Japan) asked Don Bluth & Gary Goldman if they were influenced by anime, which of course they denied in a interview. But I highly suspected that Titan A.E had indirect influence by anime. I sense Dallos, Crusher Joe, and Royal Space Force: The Wings of Honnêamise influence in there (along with other space opera anime like Cowboy Bebop, Outlaw Star, Captain Harlock, and maybe one trace of Gundam).

ExoSquad (1993-1994): OK, not an adult animation, but the story is quite dark and mature for a "kid animated" show, it had a strong narrative thread. The characters in the show had strong emotional spectrum not found in other US animation of that time. I mean the show had realism not found in US animated shows, but found in older anime. And because I mentioned anime, ExoSquad was created as a response to the rising awareness of Japanese anime in the US (probably due to Akira, and anime OVAs that were being licensed in the US at the time). It doesn't help that Will Meugniot, who was the show's executive producer has cited anime like Mobile Suit Gundam, Armored Trooper VOTOMs, Fang of the Sun Dougram, and Space Runway Ideon (all of the anime I mentioned wasn't even license in the US back in the early 90's when this show was broadcasted on US TV) as big influence on ExoSquad's dark and mature storyline.

So yeah, we had some mature animation. But if you want to know more about the history of adult animation in the US, This YT video explained it all (well minus the lack of mention of anime). They explained in good detail how adult animation started way back even before the Hays Code.

AsleepBySunset wrote:

There are almost certainly animations (series, movies) which you would describe as serious, which you've failed to list, for example Last Man from France, Shakespeare: The Animated Tales (1992), The Canterbury Tales (1998). I imagine Toldi (a hungarian miniseries) would probably be something you'd describe as 'serious'. I mean, I can't read your mind or know what you refer to as serious, it seems you've listed 'prestige adult animation', and 'award winning features'.


Just to let you know, not everybody has the same type of animation knowledge like you do. Beside being a anime fans for 16 years, I'm also a longtime animation fans. But I can't know everything under the umbrella. Even before Wikipedia, and Youtube it was impossible to list or know every animation from around the world. Thank goodness for today's technology.

AsleepBySunset wrote:
Pretty much every popular western animation is not serial.


Well, we're making some progress which I would say is a good thing. As I said, give it another 5-10 years and adult animation will start including serial dramatic narrative plotline.

AsleepBySunset wrote:
To be serialised, at least by my definition, you actually have to tell a larger overarching story over the course of the entire series (every episode should contribute, sans one or two fillers). For example, the beginning is in ep 1-8, the middle is ep 9-15 and the end is ep 16-26.


Isn't that what ExoSquad, Avatar: The Last Airbender, The Legend of Korra, and even Return to the Planet of the Apes did?

AsleepBySunset wrote:
Of course, there are other things about anime people like like the cute girls slice of life genre, actual romance stories (and not just the writers shipping two children together for no reason), the iyashikei 'genre', many other genres which are entirely neglected in america (at least post 2000s) like the sports genre, and most importantly the artstyle itself (which combines realism and disney-esque visual appeal, aka the principal of animation, in a unique way, whereas western animation leans in towards either hyperstylised graphic designs such as Finn the Human or complete realism, such as the rotoscoped works bakshi mentioned above).


Which of course I agree with you, and I've stated that I would kill to see a US animated TV series on baseball which has a narrative plotline that can be on par with baseball anime/manga we have out there.

Quote:
There are things western animation frankly does better than anime, mainly the preschool genre (stuff like Pip and Posy, Odo, Maisy, Bouli, or Trotro are far more comfy than modern japanese shows aimed at the same age group), also the talking animal genre which is popular in the west (eg, Ernest and Celestine) is almost non existant in anime.


Doesn't Anpanman and Doraemon count as anime aimed at pre-school children? But anyway, you are sort of right (please correct me if I'm wrong if there are more pre-school Japanese animation out there). But I do think the reason we don't have pre-school anime in Japan is probably because Sesame Street is shown in Japan (dubbed of course), I'm not sure if any other pre-school stuff from other part of the world goes to Japan, or do pre-school kids have their own method of entertainment.
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Spawn29



Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 551
PostPosted: Wed Sep 28, 2022 10:12 pm Reply with quote
Titan AE is a kids film which is why I didn't add it. I was 9 when it came out, and I remember having many kids advertising for it. It's no different how Secret of NIMH was in the 80s.
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TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 5838
Location: Virginia, United States
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2022 3:11 pm Reply with quote
Secret of Nihm, one of my favorites when I was a kid.

I got into Japanese anime in the Eighties, mainly cause it was completely different than what was provided in America at the time. Things may be different today, but Japan still has America beat by quantity produced and diversity of subject matters and genre. In fact this is the best time to be a anime fan, because no matter where you are on the anime fandom spectrum there is something for you out there.

I agree western animation is popular outside with the rest of the world, I think if you are hanging out in Japanese anime websites like ANN, you aren't going to see the love for western animation.
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