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Anime Fansub documentary


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TheBowlerKing



Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 8:17 am Reply with quote
I found this interesting piece on Youtube. I don't think anyone's done a doccumentary on fansubbing before.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUYlqLlbix0

It's half an hour long.

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Dargonxtc



Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 4463
Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 12:20 pm Reply with quote
Just watched the first three parts(will watch the rest later). And that was great. It really highlights the epoch of ridiculousness we are in.
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retty



Joined: 11 May 2004
Posts: 118
Location: Cheshire, UK
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 3:28 pm Reply with quote
I think it's a bit rich to complain about them as if they're supposed to be a professional service for us all. They don't have to fansub anything for us at all. But i do with everything he says. Some fonts are ridiculous, opening titles are always over-crowded and subber's notes annoy the heck out of me. I also really hate it when subbers can't be arsed to translated all the oneechans and what have you. And I agree that a lot of subbers are too literal. Things like where they say 'I'll be leaving first' or 'could it be that...'. Noone says these things!
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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 9315
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 4:22 pm Reply with quote
Well, that's why it's good to have competing groups for shows, you can pick the subs that suit you the best. Seems like a fun documentary, I think I'll watch it all right now, unless someone knows a place where I can DL the whole thing?
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Porcupine



Joined: 21 Jul 2004
Posts: 1033
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 4:46 pm Reply with quote
I'm probably not going to watch this clip, I never watch stuff on youtube because the video quality is too low. But I was just wondering why does the picture say Rise and FALL of Anime Fansubs? Since when have anime fansubs fallen, and if so how so?
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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 9315
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 4:58 pm Reply with quote
The guy just bitches for a half an hour about stuff like "BAWWWW, FANSUBBERS USE FLASHY FONTS AND THEY USE HONORIFICS" He does make some okay arguments about not translating fully, or using phrases that are awkward in english, but hey, that's why they're free. And because of this, his entire argument is nothing.
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Sheleigha



Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 1623
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 5:35 pm Reply with quote
Wow... you know he really DOES have a point. It is fun to learn things about another language/culture, but like, sometimes it does seem highly unnecessary to use a word without translating and then make several sentences to explain. But... you know, sometimes I think you can learn what the word is when it's translated and used often. Heck, sometimes if it's never explained I never even know what it means... ever >_> Take Hachiyoushou from Harukanaru. I know 'hachi' is '8' but, what about the rest? >_> I ended up having to ask someone on forums :/ Anyone agree there on not learning the meaning of some words, if always used as the original and never translated, NOR noted?

I like when they do things like in ep 6 of xxxHOLiC where the notes are at the beginning (and I remember some Inuyasha subs used to do the same). In all technicality, I don't even think the MahJong NEEDED notes. Did.... Yuuko NOT explain the game during the ep? Either way I was still lost >_>

For me, I hate having to pause JUST to read the translator notes and then go back and watch the rest because I just missed the actual subs and video >_> And yeah flashy words during an action phase take away from the actual action. About being able to to notice the subs, it's true. I actually have many friends that dislike wandering their eyes from the show, period.

But... did Otaku no Video REALLY come with that many pages of notes?! Wow...

Well, I love hearing people with accents explain things^^ Well, this seems like the type of thing that people will either agree with, or argue against. I understand fansubs are to be fun, but yeah I agree on alot of it.


Last edited by Sheleigha on Wed May 28, 2008 5:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ManSlayer07



Joined: 09 Apr 2006
Posts: 214
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 5:38 pm Reply with quote
I watched all five parts earlier (I skimmed the first one though) and while there are definitely some valid points I agree with there's also a a lot of (unnecessary) exaggeration. I should have noted all the stuff I disagreed with but didn't. Anime smallmouth + sweatdrop

A few thoughts it brought up for me... Fansubbers are not professionals and shouldn't be held to the same standard as professionals. No distinction between "normal" groups and speedsubbers. He points out that Dattebayo leaves untranslated terms like shinigami and gigai in Bleach (when referring to translation consistency) yet ignores that their subs are created and released within 24 hours of the original Japanese broadcast. Speedsubs are always held to a different standard. He uses the worst group's versions when multiple groups' versions exist (this relates to my above point). He repeatedly uses Sayonara Zetsubou Sensei yet chose the group that no one would recognize. He rants about group credits during openings yet ignores Japanese credit translation (this is actually a very debated topic in the fansub community).

Porcupine wrote:
I'm probably not going to watch this clip, I never watch stuff on youtube because the video quality is too low. But I was just wondering why does the picture say Rise and FALL of Anime Fansubs? Since when have anime fansubs fallen, and if so how so?


The title and the "documentary" itself are about fansub quality, not their popularity.
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Sheleigha



Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 1623
PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 5:48 pm Reply with quote
ManSlayer07 wrote:
He points out that Dattebayo leaves untranslated terms like shinigami and gigai in Bleach (when referring to translation consistency) yet ignores that their subs are created and released within 24 hours of the original Japanese broadcast. Speedsubs are always held to a different standard.


Well, not always. Once again, I bring up xxxHOLiC ep 6. I waited and waited and waited for it to come out. Then I see the raw of ep 8 was already out and began to wonder if it was C&D'd already. In this case, screw speedsubs, it was 'zomg hard translation notes!' Which, as I had said in my post was already explained by Yuuko and didn't help me explain the game all the much more, really.
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DaZ616



Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 327
Location: Sydney, Australia
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 12:09 am Reply with quote
LOL, i loved the MGS parody at the end.

My thoughts...well, after watching this documentery, im gona be more aware of what Fansubbers actually translate and point out the wrongs that they are doing, established in the documentery.
This is gona be annoying for me 'cause i wanna enjoy the show, not notice errors Sad


-DaZ
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Porcupine



Joined: 21 Jul 2004
Posts: 1033
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 6:30 am Reply with quote
I see, thanks for the explanation it all makes sense ManSlayer07. I do agree that overall, fansub translation quality and professionalism (sometimes putting arrogant self-propaganda on their works, putting unecessary swear words like f**k just to sound cool, etc) is nowhere near what it used to be, and it only seems to be getting worse.

The video quality, audio quality, and popularity only seem to be going up though.
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BellosTheMighty



Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 767
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 3:48 pm Reply with quote
This isn't a documentary, it's the world's biggest "You're doing it wrong!"

I don't watch a lot of fansubs, so I can't comment on whether or not the creator is on the ball. I will say this, however: he seems to have a valid argument that should be heard, but he needs to work on how he delivers it. The research he's done- both in the academia and in culling clips from fansubs old and new- is his rant's greatest strength, but also a weakness. He belabors his points excessively, throwing out five examples when two or three would do fine and three when just one be good. And he returns to the same points time and again, wasting the viewer's time. We know about your beef with liner notes on the top of the screen, dude. We share your annoyance. You don't have to tell us about it a second time.

The vid has potential, but in my opinion, it needs some revision. Re-write the narration to be more like an essay and less like a litany of complaints, trim the fat from the examples, and whiddle it down to ten minutes or less, and you'll have something that will get attention. And the powerpoint-style separation of narration and example gets kind of tiresome as well. Maybe try and integrate one with another, like a History Channel program or something.

Unfortunately, even if it does get it's point across, I doubt it will make any difference. The man himself said that fansubs have become an insular clique more concerned with flaunting their own awesomeness then promoting anime, if such promotion is even necessary these days. In fact the true irony here is that he's describing a scene that's more about personal status then anime- fansubbers abusing the stories for personal gain the same way they themselves accuse the stateside publishers of doing. Given that, why should they care about good translations? Likewise, appealing to the standards of professional translators doesn't mean anything- in my experience the fansubbers think they're BETTER then the "corporate" professionals.

Addendum:

Quote:
The video quality, audio quality, and popularity only seem to be going up though.


I'm reminded of an old Onion headline from around ten years back: "High-Definition TV Promises Sharper Crap."

(Actually, the other quote from that article was better: "The atrocious episode of Sliders looks like it could practically leap off the screen!")
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Jih2



Joined: 24 Jul 2007
Posts: 403
Location: East coast
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 4:49 pm Reply with quote
After the first two parts I also find the examples excessive and I question fansubs coming about in the 90's... (perhaps on a larger scale but from what I understand the mid to late 80's had fansubs as well). Seems more like a rant on fansubbers than a discussion of how fansubs have effected anime (which was what the title led me to believe). Good for Youtube to be hearing something like this though, considering how many people there have no clue.
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Farix



Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Posts: 152
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 9:47 pm Reply with quote
He points out a few of the problems I've had with fansubs in the past, particularly the excessive and distracting karaoke affects, not fully translating, and those oh, so annoying pop-up notes. If it is that important to include that note in the video itself, then it is a sign that the translator did not do his or her job correctly.

I also agree that the subtitle should blend in with the action. I should have to pause or "rewind" the fansub to catch text or action I missed. Fortunately, his examples of the fancy fonts and affects for attack names are rare and most of the fansubs I download are softsubs which can be turned on or off.

A point I do not agree with is the translation of signs and other text that the view is suppose to read. Most of the time, these signs are meant to establish a location for what is about to happen next. Of course, this can be overdone, such as translating every sign in the shopping district.

I am more neutral on the issue of honorifics. They are not districting, but only in a few are they significant.
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Porcupine



Joined: 21 Jul 2004
Posts: 1033
PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 10:11 pm Reply with quote
Yeah I too have always found fansubbers' karaoke subtitle effects to be ultra annoying. Of course that's just my opinion, I suppose some people like it. But I wonder just how many people like it vs how many people dislike it. That again seems to be one of the many egotistical things that anime fansubbers do these days to try to self-grandeurize themselves; I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of people actually dislike it but fansubbers keep doing it anyway just because they are bastards.

I also think that fansubs tend to overstyle their subtitles, but in all fairness, ignoring issues of taste they can often be superior to DVD in this regard. Because .mkv softsubs and most fansub softsub formats in general are much higher video quality than DVD fansubs. What I mean is, the softsub font is alpha blended into the show so it looks properly anti-aliased and unjaggedy. DVD subtitles are 2-bit "on" or "off" fonts by the requirements of the format, so they are always ultra jaggedy and have no anti-aliasing. That's one thing that has bothered me about DVD anime ever since they started to come out.
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