Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Rokka: Braves of the Six Flowers
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Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11430 |
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That's an interesting theory. 
I think we've established that Nacho couldn't have used her Sword powers to activate it from afar since you have to say "Rise fog" and put your hand on it at the same time. |
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Iron Maw
Posts: 492 |
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There is nothing strange about. She may not have live a place where those grew, just because she was involved in a civil war doesn't mean went around the world. And she said use to be
Again nothing abnormal. First-off she acts the same to all Braves as far as I've seen, the only exceptions are Adlet and Goldof who are the only people she knows besides Mora. The reason being of course is that she and Adlet are friends and Goldof is a servant who often nags her when he is around.
Fooling him for what though? She said herself, she likes to tease Adlet and joke around with him. She clearly feels comfortable with Adlet compared to others which is why she acts more carefree around him.
She's shown no hint of jealousy towards Fremy though, in fact she been more concerned about clearing Adlet's name. |
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Sharkacon
Posts: 28 Location: The Glendeasy, AZ |
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I'm moving back off of Mora and onto Nash as the 7th.
My brother claims to hate anime, despite liking all the ones I've recommended to him so far. He's watching Charlotte now since he liked Angel Beats (still hasn't watched Rokka), and last night we had a disagreement over (spoilered for those who haven't watched Charlotte yet) spoiler[whether Yuu's sister is dead as I believe, or kidnapped by scientists as he does]. The argument was going nowhere when he said we should reframe it to ignore evidence, and just think about what makes for the best story. Well, we still couldn't agree, but I realized this take works far better for Rokka. Best story breakdown: Adlet is the 7th: Interesting. Especially if he's unaware of it (as he'd probably have to be given his narration). This possibility rose quickly to the top for me. Fremmy is the 7th: That's just racist. Seriously, though, half fiend Brave killer who's prime suspect numero uno, yet makes illogical decisions if she were the 7th? That's not great storytelling. She's also the third major character introduced, and has a lot of story time dedicated to her. This makes her one of the two candidates for the potential heroine. Mora, Hans, Chamot or Goldof as the 7th: How many episodes in are we? Seven, I think? Yet we still know little to nothing of any importance about these characters. In fact, if one of them is the 7th, it would be anticlimactic because we haven't been given a reason (beyond a brief glimpse at their personality) to care about them. Who knows, maybe I just wanted it to be Mora so it'd be easier to swallow. But being easy to swallow doesn't make it a good story. Nashatania is the 7th: Hmm, let's see... First girl the MC meets, a brief glimpse at her past, top 3 in screen time dedicated to her, (seemingly) very concerned for Adlet. It looks like we've got another candidate for heroine, but what would happen if she's the 7th? Most of the cast would be shocked after considering her beyond suspicion. Adlet would be especially crestfallen considering she's the closest thing he has to a friend on the show. If you think about his life with Atro Spiker, she's probably the first friend he's had since the last one sacrificed his life for him eight years ago. Damn. And that's not even going into Goldof's reaction to the news. We haven't seen any on-screen conspiring between Nash and Goldy, so if she's the 7th, and he's unaware, he'll either be catatonic, or he will straight up abandon the Braves to join her cause. A pyrrhic victory would be a hell of a way to end the season. I'd written off Nash as being too obvious to be the one after the sword swinging temple freak out, but sometimes if it walks like a femme fatale, and it quacks like a femme fatale... Not to mention what it would do to Fremmy's status as the potential heroine. It's like a classic Bond film, where the good chick turns out to be the evil chick, and the evil chick turns out to be the good chick who has lots of sex with Bond on a boat while he ignores calls from Moneypenny before the credits roll. Yep. I've convinced myself. I'm now 98% sure it's Nashatanya. The other 2% thinks it's Adlet, but he doesn't realize it. Now if I can just figure out how she got the barrier up without Adlet noticing. |
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stilldemented
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I feel like Episode 8 revealed a lot of information and nothing at all at the same time. It's really rather brilliant when I think about it. This whole post above was awesome btw, and I'm also convinced that Nashetanya is the seventh after this episode. Still though, I got to hand it to this show. Its story structure was well crafted. Each of the characters are individuals. You can tell more or less how they process information. Hans no longer thinks Adlet or Flamie is the 7th from what I can gather. This episode sealed the deal on me being a fan for the kitty cat. Dude has brought some mass swag over to Team Pro-Adlet. Chamot proves to be rather bratty. The only person she believes is innocent is Maura. Everyone else can just go die for all she cares. Nashe believes it is Hans due to instigating this fiasco, but admits that she's not being too objective about the situation and let her emotions get the better of her. Goldov wants to believe it's Adlet because he so jelly. Got shut down so hard. Had to take a knee. #friendzone4life Adlet doesn't believe it is Hans or Chamot, nor does he think it is Flamie or Nashe. That really only leaves Maura and Goldov for him to suspect. Maura seems to be the one trying to be the most objective, but she's also treating the situation as a closed case. Adlet is the seventh. She might be a little simple minded strangely enough. From her conversation with Flamie and relationship with Chamot, I think she has a soft spot for kids. So yeah, individual characters with individual thought processes. That's really hard to portray, but this show makes it look easy. Something I found interesting is the character interactions and how their faces are portrayed this episode. Hans's eye didn't really give off any malevolence during his fight with Adlet. Chamot really came across as a kid messing around. Goldov always seems to look conflicted and Flamie always looks detached. However, when Nashe was putting Goldov in his place she looked dead inside, which was kind of terrifying. It literally screamed I am sick and tired of your bullcrap. Haha. Maura also looked pretty narly when she told Flamie to kill Adlet. At any rate, this is the first I've really noticed how the characters are depicted by the camera lens. Or maybe i just think that way because they're my two top suspects. I feel like once this Chamot incident dies down it will be time for Adlet and Maura to butt heads as they're definitely on a collision course. All in all, this episode kind of made me hope they don't discover the seventh as the infighting seems more entertaining than the overall goal to defeat the demon god. But I don't see that happening. I do think that the 7th is evil though. If the seventh just wanted to come along for the ride, I think they would go ahead and declare themselves the fake when the fate of the world is hanging in the balance and the six braves are literally at war with one another. Last edited by stilldemented on Sun Aug 23, 2015 8:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ebv2406
Posts: 54 |
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The 2 more obvious choices for the 7th seem to be Goldov and Maura.
First Goldov: his obsetion with the princess could lead him down a dark path, however he doesn't seem bright enough to pull something as complex as this trap, altough it could be the 8ths plan. Second Maura: so far she's the strongest candidate for 7th, she's smart enough to set the trap (with all her knowlege about saints), not been chosen to be a brave could be a huge motivator, she use the mark on Hans to see if Flamie was alive instead of her own, she's been constantly controling the situation as a sort of "leader", her conversation with Flamie in ep. 8 was a classic example of the bad guy trying to gain the aceptance from a good guy. Who ever the 7th is, he or she should try to keep Adlet alive, because if he dies it would become clear that he wasn't the impostor (btw that leaves Chamo out of suspition) |
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DrunkAyanami
 Get off my lawnPosts: 88 Location: The great state of Vermont |
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This episode pretty much solidified my suspicion in Maura. This is coming from my upbringing on Nancy Drew and Hardy Boys mysteries. It's almost always the person you suspect the least. And our little bloodthirsty Chamot just outright stated that "there's totally no way it's Maura."
And yet, Maura is the one who had the key this whole time and could have activated the barrier whenever she wanted to. Doesn't anyone else think it was strange that Adlet just blew open some Saint-sealed shrine with just a little bit of dynamite? In my mind, Maura snuck in under the cover of the explosion dust, activated the barrier, snuck out again and removed the key, leaving Adlet to be attacked once he entered afterward. But that leaves the question of motive, which has always been a weakness of this mystery. Only two suspects really have any motive here: Flamie and Hans are half-fiend brave killer and money obsessed, respectively. Rokka has been very good at using them as red herrings. But recently it has pulled a 180, making it not only really hard to believe that either of them is the 7th. but also making it kind of a disappointment if that were to be the case. You could make a case for MAYBE Nashetania or Goldof (Nashetania lacking confidence to proceed or Goldof wanting to protect her), but the fact that they both have alibis makes it kind of an ass-pull if either managed to activate the barrier without Flamie or the other noticing (or being in on it). There is also the possibility then that Maura is NOT the actual 7th, but knows OF the 7th before anyone else, and thus activates the barrier as a means to flush them out before moving on to the Dark Evil Lord God Demon of Darkness or whatever. That's kind of intriguing I guess, but the fact that I can't point out ANYONE suspicious after that is possibly a weak point in the story as well. Adlet as an unknowing accomplice has been kicked around, but Nashetania is really the only other choice. And I don't know how I feel about either of those from a storytelling point of view. If it were a stronger series, I would just trust it to do whatever (Kekkai Sensen episode 12 WHEN?!). But Rokka has had its share of missteps, so I'm not 100% on board JUST YET with everything it does. Anyway, I'm enjoying Rokka quite a bit this season. Not my favorite (for original non-sequal, I guess it would go to...I dunno, Gangsta., Akagami no Shirayukihime, or Ushio & Tora??), but it's definitely one that I look forward too each week. I do have one potential plot-hole question: Maura (or someone?) stated that the barrier could be deactivated by 1) the original activator dispelling it or 2) killing the original activator. If this is the case, why did everyone not just have EACH PERSON there walk up to the podium and attempt to deactivate the barrier in front of everyone else? Either I mis-heard/read, or there is some caveat that was not explained in adaptation (cough F/SN:UBW cough). Last edited by DrunkAyanami on Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:05 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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killjoy_the
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I think it's a matter of people not really knowing what the procedure for deactivating the barrier really is. Remember how Nashetanya was just kinda going silly in there, Adlet had one idea, and the others didn't know what was even going on? If there is a proper procedure to deactivate the barrier it's pointless for everyone to just try random things, since the fake would know exactly what not to do. |
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
 Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
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Here's a fun possibility:
Maura says, "I am the Seventh. I made sure you all came here and activated the barrier -- after all, *I* have the key. I wanted each of you to learn the strengths and weaknesses of one another and to test each other's capabilities. As you're all still alive, I feel you're definitely strong enough to move forward. Now I'm going to deactivate the barrier. I won't be joining you in the land of the Demon King, so be careful and good luck." A little disappointing, but possible. 
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Man, Chamot's power is really daft. It takes her ages to vomit that stuff out of her stomach, and she doesn't have any other abilities. I can't understand how a sniper like Flamie could have been overwhelmed when Chamot takes so long to use her power. All Adlet and Hans have to do is to attack her directly (rather than her immortal-but-slowly-moving monsters) and she's completely vulnerable. They don't have to kill her, I assume just knocking her unconscious would be enough. At any rate, I saw no signs of her being the most powerful saint since the original, so I was very disappointed.
Luckily, the rest of the episode was much, much better. First off, yay for Hans. We always thought he was far too obvious to be the seventh, and we were right. The hallucination bit was weird but overall I really liked both their fight and showdown. I also appreciate how Hans isn't the type to abandon a comrade. I don't think the seventh is Chamot, despite what I've said previously. I think she was genuine when she said she was bored and just wanted the seventh out of the way so she could get out of the temple and kill the Demon God. And she said she could kill the Demon God by herself, which means she has an inflated sense of her own power. Since she was young she's always been so strong - and told that she's so strong - that she has let that idea go to her head. She thinks she can solve all problems just by the use of force, meaning she never thinks things through. Such a personality, though warped, is not conducive to deceiving anyone since why would the strongest saint (since the original) need to sneak around or outwit anyone? No, Chamot is so used to pwning everyone and everything that she's intellectually incapable of coming up with a plan, even if she wanted to (which she doesn't). And following on from that, Goldov is almost certainly not the seventh either; like Chamot he's too dumb and shallow and stupid. He's a typical jealousy jock, that's it. But Nashetania (sp?) was manipulating Goldov in a scene which made me even more suspicious of her. She was directing the conversation from her own feelings for Adlet onto Goldov's feelings for her, and he was easily led astray; she was playing him like a fiddle. Plus her expression as she was talking to him was very very weird. I don't trust bunny girl and I believe more strongly than ever that something happened to her when she was banished all those years ago. There's a huge amount of backstory that we simply aren't getting. But if she is the seventh then I don't know why she didn't attack Goldov and blame it on Adlet. Also, I can't yet explain why she wants to protect Adlet, except maybe because she's genuinely in love and conflicted. And finally there's Maura. I'm still ultra-suspicious of her. She could have easily killed Flamie when they were alone together, but she didn't. She seemed to pump Flamie for information. There's still the unexplained fact of why she arrived so late at the temple after leaving two days early. And of course she had the key which may prove to be an important piece of evidence. tl;dr The seventh is either Nashetania or Maura. The other five are pretty safe from suspicion at this point, unless the person who activated the barrier is not the same as the seventh. |
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DrunkAyanami
Get off my lawn Posts: 88 Location: The great state of Vermont |
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The activation ritual didn't seem terribly complex: "sword, book, hand, 'barrier, activate'" and all. So it would be an obvious idea for everyone to try the same (or opposite) actions with a 'barrier, deactivate' command. Even if the deactivation ritual was unknown, anyone who would balk at the suggestion would be an immediate suspect. It just seems like an obvious process of elimination if you're trapped within a barrier and your only other option is "kill people until it's dispelled". EDIT: If that scene were to be totally boring and lame, I would also be placated by any sort of throw away dialogue where ANYONE just SAID that this happened off-screen. If Rokka wasn't specifically supposed to be a mystery, then I wouldn't care so much. But it is, so please fill in your plot holes! Last edited by DrunkAyanami on Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:11 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
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I still haven't ruled out the possibility that Maura and Nashetanya are working together. It would be *much* easier to explain what happened at the Temple if there were two people involved: one the "demon" and the other slipping into the Temple somehow.
Nash and Maura know one another, after all: Nash had to present herself to Maura once she became the Sword Saint. Maybe, during her time of exile, she and Maura hatched a plan together? Maybe she was so upset and disillusioned with humanity that she decided to take revenge on them all and support the Demon King? And what about Maura? If she's the imposter, maybe she was angered because she wasn't chosen by the Goddess despite all her work being in charge of the Temple? Well, I can think of reasons why either (or both) of them could be the traitor. Most everyone else is too far down my list, or off it altogether, to spend much time thinking about them. |
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Vanadise
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Hmm... Hans' behavior in this episode makes it seem very unlikely that he and Maura are working together on any kind of subterfuge. I think he's being honest with Adlet.
Maura seems a lot more suspicious, though, especially with how insistent she is that Flamie kill Adlet. I think the reveal of Chamot's power also raises some suspicious on her, though. The "fiends" that she vomits up are apparently unaffected by the salt pillars... just like the one that Adlet spoke with when he first approached the temple. Chamot's childish act could just be a ruse, and she might have been able to get some vomit underneath the door and create a fiend inside without opening it. I don't like to think that the answer to the mystery would rely on a supernatural power that we didn't know about when the mystery was introduced, but it's possible. |
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Pidgeot18
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For me, at his point, the list of suspicious candidates in decreasing order of suspiciousness are as follows:
1. Chamot 2. Maura 3. 8th + Maura 4. 8th + Nashetanya 5. "Crazy" alternative theory 6. 8th + Goldov 7. 8th + Chamot 8. 8th + Flamie 9. Hans 10. 8th + Hans (All other scenarios I consider impossible). If you look at opportunity, we can rule out Adlet (by visual truth), Goldov, Nashetanya, and Flamie (by their mutually-reinforcing alibi). Hans' comment that he didn't know how to set the barrier up, along with his actions, basically clear all suspicion, but it's still technically possible I guess. By contrast, we get a very big clue in this episode: Chamot's swamp fiends are able to bypass the Salt Pillars, which suggests one of two things: 1. Chamot's ability can negate other protections (there's a proposed scenario for her to activate the barrier, as detailed in the prior comment). 2. The pillars aren't actually imbued with anti-fiend protection, and thus the construction of the temple is itself duplicitous. Duplicity here would cast doubt most strongly on Maura. If we exclude the existence of a confederate, the possible candidates are basically Chamot or Maura. Nashetanya does have some suspicious personality quirks, but she's a feasible culprit only with the existence of a confederate. I'm loath to consider the possibility of a confederate until we can rule out the nonexistence of one (Occam's razor), but I'll also point out that Chamot's personality doesn't seem compatible with working with a confederate. Goldov and Flamie's actions seem inconsistent with them being the 7th brave. I should also point out that Maura's comments in this episode are deeply suspicious, but they still haven't quite overcome my suspicion of Chamot. Maura's insistence on Flamie killing Adlet "no matter what" suggests that she has him squarely pegged as the culprit, and she is afraid that Adlet could give some damning evidence if he gets the chance. But Chamot's actions (attempting to kill Adlet rather than discuss the identity of the 7th) still feels very strongly like attempts to prevent people from getting suspicious. It's also interesting that she offers Hans freedom if he kills Adlet, but not vice versa. |
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stilldemented
Posts: 232 |
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I'm gonna play a little devil's advocate for Maura for the sake of doing so. I feel like I'm one of the only ones here who is keeping an eye on her but doesn't really believe it's her at the same time. This episode really helped me get a feel for Maura as a character.
While I would agree that she is the least suspicious and therefore the most suspicious, there is no real surprise twist in her being the 7th. The show itself is slowly leading us to believe it is her. Like I've said earlier, Hans and Chamot are pretty much cleared by this episode. Neither of them had access to the intel on how to enact the barrier. Goldov, Nashetanya, and Flamie were not at the scene and have alibis for the time when the barrier went up. We also know Adlet didn't do it. This just leaves Maura. But that's too easy. I don't know how or why, but from a story perspective the Hans/Chamot or Goldov/Nashe/Flamie alibi needs to cave in on itself so that the mystery becomes murky again. We still have the mystery of the 8th and there has to be one at this point. This is a smoking gun that the author can't refuse to fire. If there wasn't an 8th, then there's no point in bringing it up. Whether the 8th is the one behind everything or not though idk. I feel that'd be a bit of a cop out, but at the same time it would allow the cast to progress toward killing the demon lord while still trying to figure out who's who among them. In regards to Maura's personality she came across very motherly towards Flamie in this episode. Remember that from her perspective, everyone is already in agreement that Adlet is the 7th. He took Flamie hostage to launch his escape after failing miserably to defend himself, which only looks guilty as all sin. I think Maura's treating this situation as a mystery that has already been solved. All they need to do is capture/kill Adlet and force him to dispel the barrier. That being said, she knows Flamie and Adlet were close so she's telling her not to let whatever feelings she has for him cloud her judgement. Mama Bear is just looking out for her cubs. She doesn't know that the situation has changed, and so her determination to kill the 7th and dispel the barrier starts looking like she's going out of her way to get Adlet killed. Or I could be horribly, horribly wrong about her and we should burn the witch. 
At the very least, the fact that this show makes me thing about this kind of mumbo jumbo must mean that this show is doing something right. |
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Gina Szanboti
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Now that you've said that, I realize one of them has to be lying about that. And it seems to me it has to be Hans. 
When they arrived at the fort, they were told others had arrived 2 days before them. Maura was named as one, but we never learned who the other(s) were. Nacho and Goldov came afterward. So only Hans and Chamot are possibilities. If Hans arrived at the fort shortly before or after Maura (and I'd guess after, or she would know he's lying), why did it take him two days to get there? He arrived at the temple a day after Maura. I also find it suspicious that he would so casually shrug off the King's instructions to go to the fort as not mattering. He's painted himself as someone who's very careful about the details of getting in and out of places. I don't think he'd pass up what had been presented to him as vital intel. I'm not even sure he actually met with the King, who knew all about the barrier since it was at his behest it was set up. Why wouldn't the King just explain it to him then? Finally, this goes hand in hand with what Vaisaga pointed out in the discussion thread - once he learned about the flower petals, it's no longer in his best interest to kill Adlet. Better to have him as an ally now. Finally, you're right about the Chekhov's gun of the 8th. And the 8th has to be someone we've met, if they're following standard mystery rules. The only person I can think of that could be the 8th is Lauren. If the destruction of the fort was an inside job, with the "very loyal" demons sacrificing themselves for set dressing, that explains why a mere private is the commander of the fort (it's hard to believe that every ranking officer above private was killed except by design). It also explains why all the shields and spears and drums of gunpowder(?) were still neatly in their place on the way to the replica altar. And it would kind of tie in with Adlet's childhood story about the villagers being swayed to the Demon King's side. One thing that's bothered me about the plan as explained to Adlet was why didn't Lauren or someone from the fort just accompany the Braves to the temple? Once Maura sent up the signal that all the Braves had gathered, they'd have to hang around waiting for him to arrive and raise the barrier. It would make more sense to send one or more soldiers with the Braves to do it right away, and any signaling would be to say something had gone wrong and send someone else to raise it. But I guess none of the real Braves had a problem with the plan, so that's probably overthinking things. Still, who else could be the 8th, since it can't be one of the 7? The only way out of that Chekhov's gun situation is if Adlet was only partly right and two of the 7 are in cahoots. |
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