Forum - View topicEpisode Review: Naruto Shippuden
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Gina Szanboti
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The fact that they keep making filler episodes. You seem to think I'm laying all of this at the studio's feet, but I'm not (Zangetsu might've been, but I'm not). They're just doing the work they're being paid to do. If the production committee couldn't raise the funds they wouldn't produce the episodes. Someone is funding it, and those someones are expecting a return on their investment in one form or another. And no one has suggested they are still raking it in hand over fist, but again, milking means squeezing every last drop of cash out of the cow before it goes to slaughter. That is what's going on here. The "our A-Team is busy making movies so we can make more money" excuse doesn't fly anymore. |
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Pierrot.
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^ The link I posted explains why they made the recent fillers so you should read it. Also what if I told you most of the fillers aren't even animated by Studio Pierrot? Then what?
And that's why I'm simply pointing out the hate on the studio is irrational. There are many other companies involved that decide on how the anime should be handled.
Nope that's just a baseless claim. I'm asking you again where's your evidence they made money from the filler episodes? When was the last time it ever got good TV ratings? Do you see the BD/DVDs selling well? Boost manga sales? Anything?
That's a perfectly good reason and no it's not to earn more money but to maintain quality for the canon episodes. You need to realize the Boruto movie had a tighter schedule (1 year) compared to Naruto: The Last (2 years) which is why they prioritized the movie over the TV anime. They're are human after all so you can't expect their main animators to work on both the TV anime AND the animated movies at the same time. That's just madness. |
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JaggedAuthor
Posts: 981 |
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Personally, I've never subscribed to the notion that fans are somehow obligated to give the creative minds behind the show a pass because they've stretched themselves thin. As a viewer - and not someone involved with the production of the series - I'm under no obligation to take behind-the-scenes circumstances into account when critiquing the way this show's pacing has been shot to hell. "Man, the last 30 episodes sucked, but the staff has a lot on their plate, so who am I to criticize?" Also, as far I know, the feature films don't really use the same staff as the television series. Aside from Hayato Date overseeing Road to Ninja and Junki Takegami providing a few screenplays, I can't think of any big names from the TV show who have made notable contributions to the film series. Why was Gina's claim baseless? Where's your evidence that profit isn't being made from filler episodes? The series still airs in prime time, meaning it's still able to pull in decent ratings and attract big-name sponsors - which is how money is made in the television business. Unlike late-night otaku-focused fare, series like Naruto don't have their success measured in BD/DVD sales, though I occasionally see new Naruto sets listed in ANN's weekly rankings. Since they air at more agreeable times, more people are likely to watch these shows first-run, making them more attractive to deep-pocketed sponsors. For example, Sazae-san, which is consistently Japan's most-watched animated program, has never been released on home video in any form. Similarly, with the exception of the feature films, Dragon Ball and DBZ weren't released on home video in their native country until the early '00s. |
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Pierrot.
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You're misunderstanding something. I never said you're not allowed to criticize the show's bad pacing or if something in the story sucked. What I was arguing about was the irrational hate the studio gets where people believe the main reason Naruto has filler episodes are because they're milking it for profit.
Uh what? Hiroyuki Yamashita, Norio Matsumoto, Naoki Kobayashi, Masayuki Kouda, Ken'ichi Fujisawa etc were all heavily involved in the films. These are some of the people that are responsible for the good looking episodes.
Because He/She has no evidence to back up her claims.
The burden of proof is not on me. When you make huge claim by stating the Studio is milking the franchise then you better back them up. But hey you ask for evidence? Go look at the weekly top ten TV ratings. There was a time it used to rank there more often like One Piece but now it's gone.
Oh really? If less than 2 percent is decent according to you then tell me why Bleach got cancelled when it pulled in better ratings and BD/DVD sales in comparison?
And yet it never has good ratings despite having airing primetime which is why I asked in the beginning. Why would you say the franchise is being milked through fillers when it's doing below average in both TV ratings and disk sales?
I doubt anyone is interested in buying over 7000 episodes.
Yeah but unlike Naruto and their filler episodes they pulled in spectacular TV ratings. |
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JaggedAuthor
Posts: 981 |
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If you boldly refute nearly everything a person says, I'd say you're obligated to produce a little proof. The fact that Naruto seldom finds its way into the top ten obviously doesn't matter to TV Tokyo or the show's sponsors, who have deemed it profitable enough to keep it where it is. If they weren't seeing returns on their respective investments, there would be no reason for the show to continue.
I have no idea where that figure comes from, but my personal definition of "decent" is irrelevant here. If the production committee, network, sponsors or any combination thereof were displeased with the returns they're seeing, the show wouldn't continue to occupy its enviable time slot, much less exist. I have no idea why Bleach was cancelled - or how its cancellation is really relevant to Naruto. This is also the first I'm hearing of Bleach outselling Naruto or generating higher ratings. Is there any data to back this up?
Because your definition of "good ratings" is clearly at odds with the one held by the people in charge of scheduling, producing and sponsoring the show. Even if Naruto isn't as popular as it once was, it's still making enough money to justify the anime adaptation's continued existence.
Sure, but this wasn't really my point. Also, the show's been around since the late '60s, so there were plenty of opportunities to release home video collections before the 7,000+ mark was reached.
I'd ask for some proof, but I doubt you'd be keen on producing any. It's also worth noting that television viewership in general was much higher during Dragon Ball's initial run than it is in 2016. But again, my point was that home video sales only play a minor role in determining the success of long-running prime time series, so citing poor BD/DVD sales as evidence that Naruto is no longer profitable doesn't really help that argument. Aside from Gintama, I almost never see Shonen Jump-inspired series on ANN's lists of top-selling anime. |
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writerpatrick
Posts: 672 Location: Canada |
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At this point Naruto is so close to the end that it hardly makes sense to drop it now. They could easily finish the series by mid-summer. After watching hundreds of episodes, why quit when there's may be one or two dozen left? However, I find I'm more at the point of waiting until things end, at least each arc, and catching up. So I can speed through the fillers without waiting for them to be over. I'm also tempted to take the same approach with One Piece. While the show is interesting, that last arc took forever to finish. And I probably won't even bother with Boruto, at least until it's over. |
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chex mix
Posts: 415 |
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That's what I end up doing with One Piece arcs now. I always try, but end up getting disgusted around thirty episodes into the arc and just waiting until the end to marathon. Don't know if Naruto lends itself to the same sort of easy marathoning at this point or if holding off until its over and just picking through the chaff for actual canon bits would be better. |
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Pierrot.
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Double post.
Last edited by Pierrot. on Sun May 08, 2016 1:35 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Pierrot.
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Double post.
Last edited by Pierrot. on Sun May 08, 2016 1:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Pierrot.
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That doesn't make any sense. If you're making bold statements by saying Pierrot is milking the franchise, then why do I have to prove they're not? I'm not the one who started making baseless claims so again the burden of proof isn't on me. Simple.
TV ratings, merchandise sales, boost in manga sales, video game, BD/DVD sales etc are the way you can determine whether a franchise is making money or not. Naruto airs in a primetime slot and looking at how abysmal the ratings are you can be damn sure it isn't making money through TV ratings but through other means.
Because TV ratings aren't the only way the franchise makes money and those other means has nothing to do with Pierrot since they don't get the profit. Hence saying Pierrot is milking the franchise is incorrect.
Bleach and Naruto have the same production committee http://www.bleachasylum.com/showthread.php?1702-Bleach-TV-Ratings- Highest TV Rating Bleach 55 - 6.7 Lowest TV Rating Bleach 323 - 0.9 TV Ratings By Bleach Canon - 3.5 TV Ratings By Bleach Fillers - 3.1 TV Rating By Whole - 3.4 BD/DVD Sales Bleach Average:6,532 Volumes:88 Total Units:574,840 Naruto and Naruto Shippuden Average:1,713 and 1,581 Volumes:58 and 101 Total Units:92,477 and 158,101 http://www.someanithing.com/2581
Then why would you say Pierrot is milking the franchise? While they're still being paid to animate the series, they don't get the profit from the other means series makes money.
It's not that hard to find them in the internet. Dragon Ball "The series average rating was 21.2%, with its maximum being 29.5% (Episode 047) and its minimum being 13.7% (Episode 110). " http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Dragon_Ball_%28anime%29 Dragon Ball Z "The series average rating was 20.5%, with its maximum being 27.5% (Episode 218) and its minimum being 12.1% (Episode 273). " http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Dragon_Ball_Z
It still maintained good ratings with DBZ Kai. http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=30872
I feel like you don't understand what the argument is about. Let me repeat myself. The TV anime is no longer profitable for Studio Pierrot like it used to be (TV ratings/Disk sales). So claiming they're milking the franchise by adding fillers is factually wrong.
Lookup Bleach's disk sales. |
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JaggedAuthor
Posts: 981 |
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If I understand correctly, your point is essentially "Naruto is no longer the juggernaut it once was, therefore the franchise is not being milked." "Milking" in this context means "wringing out every last drop of profitability," and it's typically applied to once-popular franchises that are well past their natural expiration dates. The consensus among many fans is that Naruto's anime adaptation should have ended a while ago, but its conclusion has been continuously delayed by lengthy bouts of filler. Even if I accept the argument that the staff's best and brightest were hard at work on the Boruto movie, this still constitutes "milking" in many people's minds. Also, since that movie is nearly a year old, I'm not sure what the current excuse is. If the studio was truly incapable of producing a satisfying finale without these individuals - and there was absolutely no profit to be made from churning out filler episodes - shouldn't the series have gone on hiatus until such time as they were available? Shows are not allowed to operate at losses, and major networks are not in the business of acting as charities. There's a world of difference between "not as profitable as it was in its heyday" and "no longer profitable." I also never claimed that Studio Pierrot is the primary beneficiary of the show's continued existence, but they, like everyone else involved, are still profiting from it to some degree.
Admittedly, I'm still a little confused by the Bleach comparisons. From what I gather, the argument boils down to "Bleach was/is more popular than Naruto, so the fact that it was cancelled is proof that Naruto isn't being milked." There are a multitude of reasons for which shows are cancelled, and I have no clue as to what sealed Bleach's fate. Plenty of shows I like are given the axe while shows with lower ratings are renewed in perpetuity. |
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Hameyadea
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Episode #459:
If I'm not mistaken, the musical piece that starts playing when the characters are fighting in the Lava Dimension is a new one. I liked it. |
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JaggedAuthor
Posts: 981 |
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Undeveloped cookie-cutter villains are my main issue with the filler episodes and feature films - even the ones I genuinely enjoy. I also would have liked to have seen more focus devoted to Kaguya and Tenji's relationship. I didn't see much of an attraction on either side, so the pain brought on by his betrayal wasn't particularly palpable. Not a bad episode, as far as filler goes. I think Kishimoto intended for Kaguya's mystique to be part of her menace, but her personal history is definitely deserving of some exploration. (It certainly beats a 47th trip into Obito's past.) |
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Gina Szanboti
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Their relationship was so undeveloped (or rather went from "touch me and die" to "I'm pregnant" with nothing in between) that I couldn't help but wonder how she got pregnant in the first place. I'm sure tripping was involved...
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zrnzle500
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He grabbed her rabbit ears . Those of you who are watching Big Order will get that one, which I suspect is not many. Yeah we don't see how she gets to the point of carrying his kid. I'm sure Tenji would be the most surprised to hear that. She didn't seem to care much for him even when she was putting him in the cocoon. |
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