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NEWS: Funimation to Offer Linebarrels of Iron, Strike Witches


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babbo



Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 274
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:15 pm Reply with quote
electronicmaji wrote:
babbo wrote:
zanarkand princess wrote:
But we are a part of the international anime communtiy. We follow what's happening in Akihabara because that is our hobby, it's not like it can't be spread to other places if you are looking for it. There aren't huge advertisements for Strike Witches in Japanese newspapers right? There aren't huge billboards with the KNJ girls posing in their underwear. It's just not something everyone is aware of. It's not mainstream. As dante noted, they don't need to be.

Btw: apparently someone from toon zone (a staff member not just a member) spoke to Funi at the sakura con panel and they said they hadn't seen the DVD version of Strike Witches yet. Then they were pointed to Sankaku Complex Anime hyper
It's mostly kids and otaku that watch anime to begin with. Late night otaku shows like SW are in no way anything near to being mainstream media in Japan and never will be. On the other hand, with SW being a niche title in the US anime community, let alone the general market, funi can't really pull the same thing off.

@electronicmaji: No, you obviously overestimate it. Why do you think no one believed that funi wouldn't license SW? Because it was to wholesome?

As for funi being one of ANN's biggest advertisement clients, aren't they pretty much the biggest client for just about every notable western site o,o?

@zarkand: duno, I'd guess that if you add in the fact that SW is undoubtedly low priority for funi that Gonzo probably was rather realistic in negotiations.
@egan loo: Actually it's generally the other way around.


Who gives a fudge who expected what.

Expectations do not equal reality.

Pantsu animes are popular in the usa whether you like it or not.


Except when they're based on common trends. Everyone knows that loli doesn't sell well in the US, the whole KnJ-seven seas debacle also put an even greater stigma on loli anime/manga. They just don't have a very good image in the US anime community in general. And that's true whether you like it or not <.<
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Kalessin



Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 930
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:35 pm Reply with quote
Loli and pantsu sell in the US but not on their own. If the main thing that a series has going for it is fanservice, then it's not going to be a huge hit. Most of the big hits here are action shows. Most of those are fairly low on fanservice. Generally, the more fanservice-laden shows are in niche categories. And even those generally do well only when they have some actual, solid content to them. Kiddy Grade did well not because of the pantsu but because of the characters and the story. The fanservice may very well have helped it to sell, but I really don't think that that's why the majority of people bought it. If Strike Witches is a hit here, it may be partially due to the fanservice, but more likely it'll be because of everything else that the series has going for it. If anything, the fanservice will hurt it because it can't be as mainstream and therefore can't really hit it big.

There's no doubt that fanservice can sell in the US, but it's not the fanservice that makes a show a hit. The biggest sellers such as Naruto, Fullmetal Alchemist, and DBZ don't have much in the way of fanservice at all. Other shows which do have fanservice succeed (such as Kiddy Grade), but they're never as big a seller as the Shounen series which lack fanservice. Fanservice may sell (after all, Media Blasters did pick up the second season of Ikkitousen), but fanservice-laden shows don't sell all that well when compared to shows that focus on other things. If the main thing that a show has going for it is fanservice, it's not likely to do all that well in the US.
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zanarkand princess



Joined: 27 Oct 2007
Posts: 1484
PostPosted: Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:50 pm Reply with quote
You are mistaking the anime fan community with the mainstream. Shounen action is huge with both but fanservice sells well within the fan community there is no doubt about it fanservice+action=hit series. Fanservice alone= good chance of being a hit,Love Hina is a good example of that. Loli fanservice is what doesn't sell at all.
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dizzon



Joined: 22 Sep 2008
Posts: 338
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:19 am Reply with quote
zanarkand princess wrote:
You are mistaking the anime fan community with the mainstream. Shounen action is huge with both but fanservice sells well within the fan community there is no doubt about it fanservice+action=hit series. Fanservice alone= good chance of being a hit,Love Hina is a good example of that. Loli fanservice is what doesn't sell at all.


You hit the nail right on the head! Code Gease R2 anyone!
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Kalessin



Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 930
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 2:08 am Reply with quote
zanarkand princess wrote:
You are mistaking the anime fan community with the mainstream. Shounen action is huge with both but fanservice sells well within the fan community there is no doubt about it fanservice+action=hit series. Fanservice alone= good chance of being a hit,Love Hina is a good example of that. Loli fanservice is what doesn't sell at all.


Well, that may be. However, no show will sell on fanservice alone - particularly when talking about fanservice in the sexual sense as opposed to the all-encompassing "anything that pleases the fans" sense. Love Hina has more to it than fanservice. Something like Queen's Blade or Ikkitousen come dangerously close to be nothing but fanservice, but in the case of Ikkitousen at least, the fighting aspect of it manages to redeem it enough that it'll sell in the anime fan community at least.

As for loli, whether it will sell or not depends on how pronounced it is and what else the series contains. Moonphase definitely has a loli character, but that's not the focus of the show and it has plenty else going for it. Kiddy Grade is in the same boat. However, if the main focus of a series is loli or if a lot of characters would be considered loli, then it's more questionable. Loli by itself will not sell. And if a series has a large enough focus on its loli aspects, then it's in trouble. Strike Witches is loli enough that it's going to have trouble selling, or at least there's bound to be quite a few people out there who would have bought it if the character designs were not so loli and will not buy it simply because they are. Loli is not viewed as a positive in general in the US. There are bound to be people who are looking for it, but they're not the majority.

Loli by itself will not sell. And even if there is a lot more to a show than its loli aspects, if the loli aspects are pronounced enough, it either won't sell or at least will sell poorly. It will be interesting to see how well Strike Witches sells. It's non-loli parts are good enough that it stands a decent chance of selling well, but it is also very loli, so that's really going to hurt its sales. We'll just have to wait and see how well it does. The fact that it's being sold as a single set may help its sales because no one will be able to buy a the first DVD, find out that it's too loli for them, and not buy more. They'll have already bought the whole thing.

In any case, fanservice can improve sales in the core anime community - particularly if its not too pronounced - but it certainly won't help in the mainstream market, and while loli might not be fatal to a product's sales, it's certainly poisonous to it.

You know, this post go way too long for how little I really have to say... Sad
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Richard J.



Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 3367
Location: Sic Semper Tyrannis.
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 3:04 pm Reply with quote
Zac wrote:
Quote:
all because some people can't just shut up and accept that Strike Witches is basically loli fanservice party central


fixed
Due to a death in the family, I couldn't get back to respond until now. Just to point out, I never claimed Strike Witches was or was not anything so please do not mischaracterize my posts. In point of fact, I've never even seen the series, so hell, maybe I'll fully agree with your characterization after I see it. (Which I somewhat doubt as the summary of the story is what got me interested in the series in the first place.)

Personally, I'm happy for the license because it's not the typical show. Fanservice and nudity don't bother me generally at all because unlike many I see nothing wrong with them, since we're talking about drawings. If Strike Witches were a live-action series that would change the situation.

I see no reason to apply a double standard to sexual content in an anime regardless of what the characters look like or what age they are given when I have no problem with violence in an anime. If bloody carnage and brutal murder are fine, why should I freak over a naked body? (Besides, again, no real people involved. It's all fictional and at the end of the day, meaningless.)

In other words, I don't have an opinion on where this series falls in the whole "too much fanservice" and "it has a great plot" debate. I just really find the whole debate silly as it really doesn't matter with this series anymore than it would with any other.
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Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 3085
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:02 pm Reply with quote
zanarkand princess wrote:
No, no they aren't they constantly fail as do all loli anime supposed to appeal to men. They had to market Moon Phase as a shojo series to make it work and Kiddy Grade was a miracle. Have you ever seen Popotan or Mouse on any best selling lists?


Did anyone watch Kiddy Grade for the loli, most people watched it for her partner.

Also as mentioned if you look at the series who do suceed its generally do to something other than fanservice. I mean from what I see most people don't like Villeta, and Negima is one of the best written action manga on the market today.
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zanarkand princess



Joined: 27 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 4:39 pm Reply with quote
He was talking about the show going on AS, they would never go for Negima. Ever.
Quote:
Negima is one of the best written action manga on the market today.

In your opinion. I think that the show is incredibly over rated and loses it's charm after a few episodes and then just becomes annoying.
My point was that you can't market a show that was popular with loli fanservice lovers in Japan the same way here. It won't work. I think that Kiddy Grade was a legitimately fun show and that it was not a lolicon show at all. That may be the appeal that character was supposed to have but considering her personality nothing about it screamed lolicon. Others disagree with me. I do believe that Strike Witches does scream lolicon anime at the top of it's lungs and despite any other positive traits that the show may or may not have(I didn't find the premise great but that's me) it will fail on that merit. Especially the uncensored version. Fanservice can sell on it's own, just not this type of fanservice

Negima is not a show for people who love action anime. It's a show for people who love romantic comedy anime, it may have some action elements but I would never put it next to Blood + and call it action (or particularly well written either)
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Annf



Joined: 20 Feb 2009
Posts: 578
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:53 pm Reply with quote
People's perceptions sure have changed over the decades.
I suppose this is just one of those generation-gap things.

I wonder, if 80s-era T&A-heavy OVAs with similar semi-deformed character art, like say Sonoda's Gall Force, were to be released for the first time now, would people now be saying it "screams lolicon anime at the top of its lungs"?
I guess they probably would.
To an old fogey like me, who grew up with things like Cream Lemon and the aforementioned Sonoda art, seeing older teens and adults drawn in a cute style isn't anything special. *shrug*

I wonder how old Fumikane Shimada is. Cool
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Kalessin



Joined: 15 Aug 2007
Posts: 930
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:56 pm Reply with quote
zanarkand princess wrote:
I think that Kiddy Grade was a legitimately fun show and that it was not a lolicon show at all. That may be the appeal that character was supposed to have but considering her personality nothing about it screamed lolicon. Others disagree with me. I do believe that Strike Witches does scream lolicon anime at the top of it's lungs and despite any other positive traits that the show may or may not have(I didn't find the premise great but that's me) it will fail on that merit. Especially the uncensored version. Fanservice can sell on it's own, just not this type of fanservice


I definitely wouldn't consider Kiddy Grade lolicon at all. If there's any mention of fanservice, it's likely to be pantsu due to Eclair's typical choice of clothing. Lumiere certainly looks loli, but she definitely doesn't act it. And they generally didn't try to sexualize her (spoiler[though honestly, I don't understand why she would be running around in a body that looks that young given that she keeps changing bodies and is quite beyond the age of being a loli naturally]).

Strike Witches, on the other hand, is an entirely different can of worms. It's loli all over the place. I'd definitely classify it as lolicon. Now, I think that its other aspects are quite good (definitely not the best, but definitely good), so I'll probably buy it, but it's so loli that that's bound to hurt sells. Some people will buy it for that kind of fanservice, but I have to concur with you that for most people it'll definitely make them not want to touch it. How well it does will probably depend on how many people are willing to put up with the loli aspects rather than how many people are actually looking for it.
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electronicmaji



Joined: 10 Apr 2009
Posts: 4
PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:54 pm Reply with quote
zanarkand princess wrote:
No, no they aren't they constantly fail as do all loli anime supposed to appeal to men. They had to market Moon Phase as a shojo series to make it work and Kiddy Grade was a miracle. Have you ever seen Popotan or Mouse on any best selling lists?


Bet selling lists do not equal profit.

Most of these series also cost considerably less to license then big name shows and sell quite well turning quite a profit.
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zanarkand princess



Joined: 27 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:03 pm Reply with quote
How on earth does best selling not equal profit?

Mod note: electronicmaji has already been handled.
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babbo



Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 274
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:15 am Reply with quote
Quote:

Most of these series also cost considerably less to license then big name shows and sell quite well turning quite a profit.


funi also tends to dub everything too, so I'd assume that they still are going to be putting a semi-decent amount of money into SW despite cheaper licensing fees.
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chrisc1978



Joined: 31 May 2008
Posts: 354
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:32 pm Reply with quote
Strike Witches could couse a conflict of interest with parents. Funimation selling young kid shows, and there are some people saying Strike Witches is for pedo’s
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Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 3085
PostPosted: Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:50 pm Reply with quote
zanarkand princess wrote:
He was talking about the show going on AS, they would never go for Negima. Ever.
Quote:
Negima is one of the best written action manga on the market today.

In your opinion. I think that the show is incredibly over rated and loses it's charm after a few episodes and then just becomes annoying.
My point was that you can't market a show that was popular with loli fanservice lovers in Japan the same way here. It won't work. I think that Kiddy Grade was a legitimately fun show and that it was not a lolicon show at all. That may be the appeal that character was supposed to have but considering her personality nothing about it screamed lolicon. Others disagree with me. I do believe that Strike Witches does scream lolicon anime at the top of it's lungs and despite any other positive traits that the show may or may not have(I didn't find the premise great but that's me) it will fail on that merit. Especially the uncensored version. Fanservice can sell on it's own, just not this type of fanservice

Negima is not a show for people who love action anime. It's a show for people who love romantic comedy anime, it may have some action elements but I would never put it next to Blood + and call it action (or particularly well written either)


Do not confuse the manga with the crappy anime series.

The manga is an action manga that doubles as a harem comedy, the anime series are a harem comedy with sone action.

The manga is excellent, the anime sucks.
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