Forum - View topicINTEREST: Ghibli Producer Suzuki Discusses 'Western Influence,' War Loss
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Surrender Artist
 Posts: 3264 Location: Pennsylvania, USA |
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Mr. Suzuki's counterfactual is a big one, but I think that it would have been right in the short run. Imperial Japan was an authoritarian, militarist state. It's nascent multiparty system had been supplanted by a series of military governments and the 'Imperial Rule Assistance Association'. Japan has a long history of being governed by or deferring to 'the power behind the throne' and such oligarchies are difficult to dislodge. Even after the overthrow of the Imperial Government and enactment of a liberal constitution sixty five years and a day ago, that's arguably in some senses still true. I think that the immediate term after victory, the authority of the military and oligarchs would have been reinforced. In that scenario, Japan might ultimately have had a few more decades of pretty authoritarian rule that would have delayed its liberalization.
I think that the more appropriate analogy would have been to what the Confederacy might have become it had won, which is to say remaining independent. |
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Juno016
 Posts: 2397 |
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I'm no expert, but I do believe that many of the same people who were pushing the militaristic ideology and propaganda at the time were re-instated by Douglas McArthur for the sake of stability and support. Fortunately, the military mindset has been crushed, thanks to the victim mentality of the Japanese from the loss of the war, but I still see the occasional high-status politician looking to reinstate an actual military (as opposed to just their Self-Defense Force, which is actually one of the biggest forces in the world, despite its small role) or develop nuclear weapons--and not just as a likely defense against North Korean aggression.
I'm not saying that history will be repeated, but it's definitely not as if Japan doesn't have the potential to go back to old ways or into other dangerous directions. On the one hand, I'm obsessed with Japanese culture, entertainment, and even their society and people. On the other hand, it would be extremely ignorant of me to think that any place on this earth might actually be without major social and political messes, even now. Related enough to the topic or not, I think this kind of objectivity is definitely something important to think about. |
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Polycell
 Posts: 4623 |
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But back to the topic, it's definitely best for everybody that the warrior cult that Japan had going on at the time was toppled. It's also almost certainly true that a willingness to talk terms rather than blindly insist on unconditional surrender would've been even better(IIRC, it's been estimated that this asinine demand added years to the war in Europe). |
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Chagen46
 Posts: 4377 |
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Hmm...I remeber hearing that the reason why negotiating wasn't done was because Imperial Japan couldn't really be reasoned with. Their obsession with dying honourably in battle led to them to never surreder no matter what, so the original justification for dropping the bombs was that they were pretty much the only way to get Japan to stop--by dealing them a horrific blow so vast they had no choice but to stop fighting. This is merely what I've heard, however. |
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050795
 Posts: 230 |
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It’s a little long so I won’t quote it, but in my original post I was getting at what Kikaioh said (that was very well said by the way). |
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Juno016
Posts: 2397 |
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It's true. Of course, the idea painted in American propaganda at the time that Japan would fight to the last man, woman, and child was far from the truth. Many, if not most of the civilians and even military personal would have gladly stopped if they felt like they had much of a choice, but the pressure of "honor or shame" led many of them to fight for their country's national cause, even if they weren't completely supportive of it. If there was an effective method of attacking the heart of the military without getting civilians involved, I think that would have been much better... but it didn't happen, so it's not like I can actually predict the consequences. I still don't think dropping the bombs was the best idea, but it happened, and even beyond just stopping the war, it taught us that nuclear/atomic bombs are extremely scary to deal with... so at the very least, for the present and the future, we should take what lessons we have been given and try not to repeat them. Suzuki and most Japanese today that I know of, follow that sort of mentality. |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23883 |
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Really people? Are we going to discuss the pros and cons of dropping the atomic bomb on Japan? Jesus Christ. That's exactly what the OP would want. This thread should not be about that. It should be about pointing out the stupidity of criticizing a Japanese citizen for issuing the rather common sense statement that it is a good thing that Japan's bloody, rapacious regime was defeated. To infer that somehow that view is an endorsement of the use of atomic bombs is retarded beyond belief. And I can't believe I actually have to explain that.
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Juno016
Posts: 2397 |
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Some of us are more interested in discussing the topic than belittling the comment, even if it we agree that is was pretty ridiculous. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23883 |
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Wonderful. So you are all for indirectly supporting the idiocy expressed by the OP? I have no doubt there is a more appropriate board to rehash the issues of WWII then this one.
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DavidShallcross
 Posts: 1008 |
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Remember, Blood-, that this is a talkback thread about an interest article. The concept of OP does not apply, or if it does, should be considered as applying to the article, not to Nemo_N. Not commenting on a particular posting in no way constitutes indirect support. That line of thought leads to multi-page flame wars, and madness.
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jtstellar
Posts: 94 |
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"awful country"..
not as awful for for their own domestic population than it would have been for the entire world, namely those people they would end up occupying, had they won the war while you are busy gleeing all about this statement, turn some eyes to what the us is currently doing around the world.. certainly people living here won't feel the misery it imposes around the world, just as japan probably wouldn't have if their government won the war, the perspective of a foreigner is a lot different. i don't think it needs reminding of the us thinking it can micro manage middle eastern culture, trying and failing and causing millions to be displaced or killed in the process, how that pertains to this topic. had japan won the war, he probably wouldn't be saying it. it's precisely because they felt the wrath from the rest of the world, that the setback gave them a chance to pull back and re-evaluate the WWII event from a foreign perspective. don't wait until that happens to US as well, because when the rest of the world strikes back, it won't be pretty. better to change it ourselves, before the rest of the world imposes on us, just like what happened to japan. that statement by unidentified speaker, i take more as an expression of regret, rather than remorse. Last edited by jtstellar on Fri May 04, 2012 1:39 pm; edited 5 times in total |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23883 |
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@DavidShallcross - But it was the OP who brought up the atomic bomb non sequitur in the first place. To get into a digression about whether dropping the bomb was the right or wrong thing to do indirectly gives support to a line of conversation that had no validity in the first place.
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Veers
 Posts: 1197 Location: Texas |
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So I get done reading this fascinating paper about Miyazaki and Ghibli films this morning and then wander over to ANN after lunch and see this? Interesting day.
By the way, link is old but still a good read if you're a Ghibli fan (specifically Miyazaki's works). |
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Juno016
Posts: 2397 |
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Just as much as Suzuki is indirectly supporting atomic bomb usage. *ahem* Jokes aside, jtstellar has a point that I wanted to mention, but stuck to indirect methods to stay on topic. Many things that the U.S. (politicians, historians, educators, citizens, but not necessarily the whole) criticizes about others (right or wrong) can also be turned back around on the U.S. As a U.S. citizen, I cringe at some of the things that I've seen my fellow citizens say about other countries. Many of you probably know what I mean. But we all have our prejudices. It's just a matter of looking back at oneself to discover one's own hypocrisy before it's too late. And I think that's pretty much what happened to Japan, unique cultural/social circumstances aside, albeit a bit too late for the major consequences... ...oh, wow. The irony of this entire post is somewhat amusing. No offense to anyone, of course. ._.; btw, Veers. Awesome pdf. I haven't read that in quite a few years, but I believe it was published in an anime-culture-themed book. Very insightful. =3 |
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Spoofer
 Posts: 356 Location: NY |
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I am literally /headdesking.
Why only bring up the comparison to contemporary American foreign policy? If we're going to bring that up, we may as well be thorough and start from the beginning with what we did to the Native Americans from 1492 onward (and everything else we've been responsible for in the past 500 years). And then maybe continue going backwards in time from there throughout human history, eventually comparing and applying this one incredibly straight-forward quote to everything that has ever been or ever will be. |
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