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ArsenicSteel wrote:

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Really? I mean to me it sounded like he/she was just complaining that it didn't fallow the Japanese dub and made it different...... which in turn made it better for English viewing audience.

Also, about the director and mangaka not being involved, well you can always get that by watching the Japanese Dub. However, I think that is a good thing. Not everything that comes out of Japan is gold. What they did in the Japanese dub worked for the Japanese but they wouldn't be able to adapt it into English better then the people that speak it as a first language and understand the audience it's targeting.

Well you are free to "think" he implies the difference makes it better for the English dub but "thinking" that way and ignoring the ratings given is a bit problematic.

Who is talking about everything that comes out of Japan, I am only commenting on the Soul Eater review. You said you think the English dub captures the true intentions better than the original. That is laughable as the original had different tones that match what is going on in every scene. The redub sometimes does not match the visuals. It wasn't that the redub was more serious it just lacked the energy the original had.

I am not saying that Japanese writers should do the adaptation of the English script, saying that sounds pretty odd. The English crew didn't match the benchmark set by the original. Yes the original is the benchmark because the original script is used but adapted and the actors view the original performances during their dub process in an attempt to recapture what has been done.

SE is a decent dub but it does not surpass or match the original. SE is not one of the better Funi dubs.

I think Soul Eater is one of Funimations better dubs. Also, when every an Japanese company is involved in a U.S. release of a show, they always screw it up. So, I think it's better not to have them involved.

Tell me, what would you rather listen to, the same story told in the same way 2 times or the same story told in 2 different ways?

What is the point of telling the story in the same way that it's been told already. You've already seen the Japanese dub, so now Funimation want you to check out their dub, but what is the incentive to do so if it's just a complete replica of the Japanese dub. Funimation is dubbing it not making a compete replica of the Japanese dub into english. The Japanese script is more a guide line, not the instructions on now to dub the show. I heard enough of this crap about "it doesn't sound like the Japanese dub/original dub" when I read reviews of Clannad dub. Who ever said it has to sound like it or even fallow in the same foot steps as the Japanese dub?

There is more then one way to tell a story and there is no ORIGINAL/better ways to do it. Just because you heard it first doesn't make it the original. I would like to know which script was the ORIGINAL for Kurokami? They both came out the same day in Japanese dub and english dub. So, which one is the original.

Once again, Desert Punk would have sucked if it fallowed in the same foot steps as the Japanese dub, thus it didn't and it was better because of it. But, here, not fallowing the Japanese dub is recognized as an flaw not an improvement. What's with that?

About the dub review. It's isn't what I "think" he/she is saying it's what they are saying. The reviewer is just complaining on what he/she didn't see in the english dub and what they did in the Japanese dub and that something is not even a complaint at a performance but at the whole dub.

Just check out the part 3 review, which is done by another critic, but he/she is at least level headed about it and talks about what is good and what could use improvement. Where as this reviewer is like a broken record spouting some complaints about something that doesn't even need changing. It was like the reviews was saying, "it didn't sound like the Japanese dub so because of that it doesn't compare to the Japanese dub"...... yeah that is a level headed compliant. I expect to hear that kind of crap form fans for the Japanese dub, not form a critic on this website. Thus, I will disregard (and advice others to do the same) the reviews made by this critic on Soul Eater and be more cautious about the future reviews from this critic.

Well you can look up the script writer for Kurokami and see the original script was done by Reiko Yoshida in Japanese. Subsequently the English dubbing studio took a translation of the original script and adapted it in order to make the English dub. If you have Kurokami, you will see Bandai really makes an effort to retain as much of the original script as possible. It is odd how you claim Japanese companies screw up American releases but cite Bandai's Kurokami.

You don't need to question what an original performance is. It is the performance that re-dubbers queue up in order watch the tone of the scene, thus it is their benchmark and guide.

The dub just was low key and lacking the energy of the original track. For something as out there as SE, energy and tone means a lot.

While I can flip between audio tracks but the fact is I listen to the one the sounds best to me. For Trigun it is the English track, for Soul Eater it is the Japanese track. The whole telling a story differently does not work out well if the animation is not redrawn to match how the 3rd party tries to change the telling.

ArsenicSteel wrote:

Well you can look up the script writer for Kurokami and see the original script was done by Reiko Yoshida in Japanese. Subsequently the English dubbing studio took a translation of the original script and adapted it in order to make the English dub. If you have Kurokami, you will see Bandai really makes an effort to retain as much of the original script as possible. It is odd how you claim Japanese companies screw up American releases but cite Bandai's Kurokami.

You don't need to question what an original performance is. It is the performance that re-dubbers queue up in order watch the tone of the scene, thus it is their benchmark and guide.

The dub just was low key and lacking the energy of the original track. For something as out there as SE, energy and tone means a lot.

While I can flip between audio tracks but the fact is I listen to the one the sounds best to me. For Trigun it is the English track, for Soul Eater it is the Japanese track. The whole telling a story differently does not work out well if the animation is not redrawn to match how the 3rd party tries to change the telling.

I for one enjoyed the originality of the Funimation dub and that they didn't fallow the Japanese script in that scene. It made the show that much more torable to watch.

Also, with anime there is no Original, just as there is no original with music. Most of the Disney stories (Beauty and the Beast, Cinderella and Snow White) and gruesome folk talks told in Europe, mainly in Germany. Then Disney made the stories into cartoons and put their own spin on them and we now think of the movies as the originals of the story.

The same could be said about anime. Funimation licenses the anime and everything that goes with it. But that doesn't mean they have to fallow the story like the Japanese did. Just take Ghost Stories. The Japanese version is supposed to be a scary story in Japan, Yet, the english dub is a parody of it. You can't blame ADV for marketing the show the way it's going to sell better, because, frankly, the Japanese version would not have been (arguably at all popular) as much of a hit as the parody in the U.S.

Which in turn brings me to the point I'm trying to make. The show doesn't have to be the same as the Japanese version. In most cases the show is made better when it doesn't fallow the Japanese version, yet that is seen as a flaw by sub only fans. Which, is funny because they don't really care about the dub at all and just want to complain about it.

Also, I brought Kurokami as an example because it was release both in english and japanese dub at the same time, thus making the original hard to make out, since it the original story was make in Korean, not in Japan. Are you trying to say that a American ADR can't make a script as good or even better then any Japanese director or script righter? If that is the case then I would have to call you a Japanese elitist. Thinking that everything that comes out of Japan is Gold.

Bandia is screwing up all the release schedules of it's shows. Also, sony screwed up the release of Blood + and they got smart and are now releasing one of it's shows through Section23. How many examples do you need me to bring up. Also, lets not forget Gurran Laggan movies are now sub only thanks to a Japanese company. How much more proof do you need to see that when ever a Japanese company is involved in a American release of any show they find a way to screw it up. In said ways, like sub only releases, too long waits for releases, or way to high costs.

Here, let me use a different example. Which is the original of Halo Wars, the english script or the Japanese script. I mean the English version came out about a month before the Japanese did. So, which is the ORIGINAL. How about the new Marvel animes. Iron man, I mean we have been doing those show in American for years, but I'm sure I will find reviews for the show saying the Japanese dub is better and "captures" the show better, compared to the dub. What is with that?

Say what you will but I for one will side with Funimation on this one and say that it was a smart move make Soul Eater more "Toned down" (it's not as if they couldn't make it blindly energetic like the Japanese) and in turn improved it. But, you see that as a flaw for it doesn't sound like the Japanese. I say the further it is from the Japanese version the better, because it's easier to "Digest" for newer coming fans when the show is made to be more understandable for the english speaking audience (and blindly engergetic shows are not something most Americans are used to or have fun watching, contrary to your beliefs).

So for all the people that want to watch the Japanese version go right ahead and watch the Japanese dub, but don't bash the dub for not being like the Japanese dub for that would more likely then not deter new fans form getting into anime. Which is the primary objective of a dub.... yes a dub is not there to satisfy the people that watched the Japanese dub, for they already have what they want, the subs. Dubs are made to make the show more torable/attract new fans to anime.

ArsenicSteel wrote:

Well you can look up the script writer for Kurokami and see the original script was done by Reiko Yoshida in Japanese. Subsequently the English dubbing studio took a translation of the original script and adapted it in order to make the English dub. If you have Kurokami, you will see Bandai really makes an effort to retain as much of the original script as possible. It is odd how you claim Japanese companies screw up American releases but cite Bandai's Kurokami.

You don't need to question what an original performance is. It is the performance that re-dubbers queue up in order watch the tone of the scene, thus it is their benchmark and guide.

The dub just was low key and lacking the energy of the original track. For something as out there as SE, energy and tone means a lot.

While I can flip between audio tracks but the fact is I listen to the one the sounds best to me. For Trigun it is the English track, for Soul Eater it is the Japanese track. The whole telling a story differently does not work out well if the animation is not redrawn to match how the 3rd party tries to change the telling.

I for one enjoyed the originality of the Funimation dub and that they didn't fallow the Japanese script in that sense. It made the show that much more tolerable to watch.

Also, with anime there is no Original, just as there is no original with music. Most of the Disney stories (Beauty and the Beast, Cinderella and Snow White) and gruesome folk talks told in Europe, mainly in Germany. Then Disney made the stories into cartoons and put their own spin on them and we now think of the movies as the originals of the stories.

The same could be said about anime. Funimation licenses the anime and everything that goes with it. But that doesn't mean they have to fallow the story like the Japanese did. Just take Ghost Stories. The Japanese version is supposed to be a scary story in Japan, Yet, the english dub is a parody of it. You can't blame ADV for marketing the show the way it's going to sell better, because, frankly, the Japanese version would not have been (arguably at all popular) as much of a hit as the parody in the U.S.

This, in turn, brings me to the point I’m trying to make. The show doesn't have to be the same as the Japanese version. In most cases the show is made better when it doesn't fallow the Japanese version, (DBZ, Desert Punk) yet that is seen as a flaw by sub only fans. Which, is funny because they don't really care about the dub at all and just want to complain about it.

Also, I brought Kurokami as an example because it was release both in english and japanese dub at the same time, thus making the original hard to make out, since it the original story was make in Korean, not in Japan. Are you trying to say that a American ADR can't make a script as good or even better than any Japanese director or script wrighter? If that is the case then I would have to call you a Japanese elitist. Thinking that everything that comes out of Japan is Gold.

Bandia is screwing up all the release schedules of it's shows. Also, sony screwed up the release of Blood + and they got smart and are now releasing one of it's shows through Section23. How many examples do you need me to bring up. Also, lets not forget Gurran Laggan movies are now sub only thanks to a Japanese company. How much more proof do you need to see that when ever a Japanese company is involved in a American release of any show they find a way to screw it up. In said ways, like sub only releases, too long waits for releases, or way to high costs.

Here, let me use a different example. Which is the original of Halo Wars, the english script or the Japanese script. I mean the English version came out about a month before the Japanese did. So, which is the ORIGINAL? How about the new Marvel animes? Iron man, I mean we have been doing those show in American for years, but I'm sure I will find reviews for the show saying the Japanese dub is better and "captures" the show better, compared to the dub. What is with that?

Say what you will but I for one will side with Funimation on this one and say that it was a smart move make Soul Eater more "Toned down" (it's not as if they couldn't make it blindly energetic like the Japanese) and in turn improved it. But, you see that as a flaw for it doesn't sound like the Japanese. I say the further it is from the Japanese version the better, because it's easier to "Digest" for newer coming fans when the show is made to be more understandable for the english speaking audience (and blindly energetic shows are not something most Americans are used to or have fun watching, contrary to your beliefs).

So for all the people that want to watch the Japanese version go right ahead and watch the Japanese dub, but don't bash the english dub for not being like the Japanese dub for if it was that would more likely than not deter new fans form getting into anime. Which is the primary objective of a dub.... yes a dub is not there to satisfy the people that watched the Japanese dub, for they already have what they want, the subs. Dubs are made to make the show more tolerable/attractive to new fans to anime.

You want to make a generalization about the US audience not liking energetic audio tracks. I am not one for arguing idiotic points and theories pulled out of your ass, so I will leave you to wallow in your land of crappy conjecture.

Maybe you will make a post that is mostly about SE and not every other animated show trying to prove a point, badly I might add.

Um, actually, good English dubs are English versions of the Japanese version. Granted, some smoothing out of certain lines may be necessary, and you needn't necessarily copy the sound of all the Japanese voices, but if you do what Funimation does and "spice up" the script and go for very outlandishly cartoonish voices, you end up with... well, with a Funimation dub.

It's true that even Animaze's Cowboy Bebop dub isn't a 1:1 adaptation of the Japanese version, but it's pretty close. Big O, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex, Metropolis, Outlaw Star, all very close to the Japanese script. You know what these all have in common? They're Animaze dubs. And Animaze, unlike Funimation, doesn't think it's clever or witty, despite having no clever or witty writers.

Most of the best English dubs for anime are quite close to the original versions.

penguintruth wrote:

Um, actually, good English dubs are English versions of the Japanese version. Granted, some smoothing out of certain lines may be necessary, and you needn't necessarily copy the sound of all the Japanese voices, but if you do what Funimation does and "spice up" the script and go for very outlandishly cartoonish voices, you end up with... well, with a Funimation dub.

It's true that even Animaze's Cowboy Bebop dub isn't a 1:1 adaptation of the Japanese version, but it's pretty close. Big O, Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex, Metropolis, Outlaw Star, all very close to the Japanese script. You know what these all have in common? They're Animaze dubs. And Animaze, unlike Funimation, doesn't think it's clever or witty, despite having no clever or witty writers.

Most of the best English dubs for anime are quite close to the original versions.

..............Need I say it, that is all a matter of opinion. Also, if you are judging a dub on how closely it can adapt a english version of the Japanese version, they Yes it is a good or ever the best dub in that regard. Of which, I don't really care for it to be a close adaption to the Japanese version.

I for one watch anime to be entertained, so if changing the script and/or making characters not sound the same does that then so be it and in most cases those kind of improvements are just what makes a show more "watchable/enjoyable" to me.

Just take Srg. Frog for example. It wouldn't have been as funny if it were a direct translation, thus they changed it and the dub has potential to surpass the Japanese dub, yet this idea is very trouble some for most sub only fans, thus they bash it on not being like the Japanese dub and thus it sucks/it's flawed/it fails.

Also, I've done many reviews of DBZ (DON'T START IT UP AGAIN, I JUST BROUGHT IS AS AN EXAMPLE) on many anime forms (people that have seen both the sub and dub) and more then 2/3 of the voters liked the dub more, and the ones that voted for the sub only commented that all dubs suck and that they change way too much in all dubs and all dubs suck (yes they say it twice).

My main beef with this reviewer (which, reviewed both the 2nd and 4th parts releases) is that he/she gripes about something outlandish. Such, as the tone of the dub is not the same as the Japanese version and thus it is inferior. There is no way a dub will ever be better then a Japanese dub in that sense, equal is the highest it will get. However, if the script is re written and tone is adjusted, then the dub has potential to accomplish above and beyond what the Japanese dub does. However, when ever a dub does this it's seen as a flaw/vice by some reviews and they start to complain on subjects that aren't even measurable or even worth mentioning.

I just want to hear about the performances and how well they perform their tasks, not to hear how well they didn't perform a task they didn't set out to accomplish to begin with.

Thus, instead of complaining (in both reviews of this reviewer) about something that isn't even agreed upon of being a actual critic (for some see the toning down as a good thing) they he/she could stop complaining about the the toning down being there and instead talk about now well the show worked with a toned down dub and if they were able to pull it of. Also, as a toned down dub was it well executed.

Those would have been much better to put in the review, yet the reviewer only talked about now inferior the dub is to the Japanese dub and how he hated Black Star......what kind of review is that?

Except that reviewer did not only talk about Black Star. In both of his reviews he gave 2 character specific opinions, one being a negative and the other being a positive. Oddly enough in this first review when he mention Black Start it is positive.

The critics are not here to slobber and praise products. They are doing reviews that cover pros and cons in their eyes/ears. This reviewer is not a purist but his views tend to fall into the "If it ain't broke don't fix it or at least make it better" train of logic around the original script and dialogue. When there is a triumph in a dub because of changes he will call it out. Likewise when a change does not improve what the original had in place, he will also mention it.

Please stop making up fictional fractions about DBZ. Go to the diazex or funimation forums to see that the majority of people liked DBZ but didn't like the changes and prefer the more accurate Dragonboxes and faithfulness of Kai.

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..............Need I say it, that is all a matter of opinion. Also, if you are judging a dub on how closely it can adapt a english version of the Japanese version, they Yes it is a good or ever the best dub in that regard. Of which, I don't really care for it to be a close adaption to the Japanese version.

It is not a matter of saying great dubs have to be close adaptions. It just so happens that being a close adaption is one of the similarities among top rated dubs, not mandatory but a common case.

ArsenicSteel wrote:

Except that reviewer did not only talk about Black Star. In both of his reviews he gave 2 character specific opinions, one being a negative and the other being a positive. Oddly enough in this first review when he mention Black Start it is positive.

The critics are not here to slobber and praise products. They are doing reviews that cover pros and cons in their eyes/ears. This reviewer is not a purist but his views tend to fall into the "If it ain't broke don't fix it or at least make it better" train of logic around the original script and dialogue. When there is a triumph in a dub because of changes he will call it out. Likewise when a change does not improve what the original had in place, he will also mention it.

Please stop making up fictional fractions about DBZ. Go to the diazex or funimation forums to see that the majority of people liked DBZ but didn't like the changes and prefer the more accurate Dragonboxes and faithfulness of Kai.

Quote:

..............Need I say it, that is all a matter of opinion. Also, if you are judging a dub on how closely it can adapt a english version of the Japanese version, they Yes it is a good or ever the best dub in that regard. Of which, I don't really care for it to be a close adaption to the Japanese version.

It is not a matter of saying great dubs have to be close adaptions. It just so happens that being a close adaption is one of the similarities among top rated dubs, not mandatory but a common case.

I was saying that all "I" got out of the review when the topic of dub came up was that it doesn't sound like the Japanese version and that Black Start is a "little ninja turd" out of both the reviews he/she gave. That means it a really good review. How about talking how Crona's voice is well acted out, executed and fits the boy/girl feel, (I really was confused for a long time of whether he was a boy or a girl, his voice was a perfect cross breed, of which you can't classify being a definite girl voice or definite boy voice). How about the new voice actor that does Soul, is he good, does he do a good job as a actor, am I going to be listening to 51 episodes of a rookie trying his best but not being at the level of the pros/vets yet? I mean I can think of many really good point to talk about. Yet, all I get is the English dub is not like the Japanese dub in terms or tone, thus it's inferior (Clannad sub only fans argument for the dub sucking) and Black Star is a little ninja turd.

That gives me a fair assessment of the dub. No I mean really he/she is spot on (sarcasm).... thus I said that I will be more careful (and advise others to do so) to not read this reviewers opinions on dubs of other shows, for if I didn't watch Soul Eater before I read this review, I would have thought the dub sucked, which it was far from it and in my Humble opinion, much easier on the ears and much more enjoyable then it's Japanese counterpart.

About the dubs. I don't really care now close they come to the Japanese adaption, as long as they are entertaining they are fine with me. However, people bash Afro Samurai for no really reason. They just say that it sucked with no explanation as to why. I for one like both the show and the movie, the action was very intense and there was comedy, and the plot wasn't as transparent as many sub only fans made it out to be, actually the plot was pretty deep. However, since it's anime and doesn't have a Japanese dub it automatically sucks..... why is that?

About, DBZ, I made polls on many anime forms and those are my numbers. I have no intention of arguing if the information you provided is true. But know this, the vast majority of people that watched DBZ didn't/don't know about anime and don't even know that it's a anime at all and that it's foreign made. Thus, only fans would go to those forums and vote, where as the vast majority of the people that watched/watch it are not represented by those statistics.

DBZ is watched by casual buyers/watchers, which far out number the Fans, and they don't care about a "more faithful adaption" for they saw it when they were kids and at that time they didn't even care for a Japanese version. Actually, a possibility for the reason Kai is/was successful at first could be because all the casual buyers/watchers thought, "oh look it's DBZ again" and tuned in but were sad to find it wasn't the same DBZ they knew and loved. How do I know this, well I have dozens of friends that don't watch anime but will/have watched DBZ and after seeing Kai they asked why it didn't feel like DBZ and I told then the reason is because it's a closer adaption to the Japanese version. Most of them said that the music sucked and that they want the Blood pumping sound track of DBZ back. But, hey, I have no way of proving this, so take it or leave it. I just gave you the info I got, nothing more nothing less.

Anyways, this is my last post on this tread, you can post a reply and I will read it but most likely not reply to it. So think I'm ignoring you and don't feel sad. Razz

Yeah him giving it a B/B- and saying the same thing the other review said "the tracks are different" and "Hey, it may even be advisable to flip between the tracks every episode to make the more pointless installments go faster. " I can completely see how you can interpret that as calling the dub bad.

You are overracting to the way that reviewer worded his own opinion just because it is not all gaga over the dub. If you are going to be so hypercritical you should at least read the reviewers name and some being ambiguous about the sex of the reviewer. Putting he/she does not look intelligent when their given name easily infers their sex.

As for your little DBZ stats you might want to stat what years you are even referring to. Since many of the years that fans first got involved with DBZ forums were not exactly high traffic. All your are proving is "birds of a feather..." with your supporting anecdotes. So it is nice you know people that don't watch anime but are fans of DBZ. Frankly that level of fandom is amusing to come across when the moment of learning the pedigree of the entertainment they have been watching happens. That moment is like a baby taking its first steps. You should post their moment of discovery on Youtube.

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REVIEW: Soul Eater DVD Part 4

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REVIEW: Soul Eater DVD Part 4