Forum - View topicThe X Button - Zero Missions
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se37
 Posts: 229 Location: Annapolis, Maryland |
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It was partly out of proportion but not for the reasons people are talking about. The main game wasn't the issue, it was the multi-player where you could create your own avatar didn't have the female option which is pretty standard when you are creating your own character. However, the response from Ubisoft was not really sexist but more of being lazy and stupid. Last edited by se37 on Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:35 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Sheleigha
 Posts: 1673 |
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The target market is a little different here in that case. There was already a huge petition that went out with well over 10k people signing it (I think it might have got to 50k?) which clearly were not children. The anime still gets edited in the west, but even this game was not necessarily made for small children either. More expensive Digimon merchandise has been made in Japan, such as figures, a $100 Digivice, and the $500 blu ray boxset which definitely were not targeted towards kids, instead were marketed for the older audience that grew up with it. These recent games show a more mature side of the franchise, showing that they realize most people playing it probably wouldn't be small kids. Unlike Pokemon, which always tries to keep kid-friendly with their image and Nintendo partnership. But, even Pokemon creates merchandise with an older audience (that can afford such things) in mind. It's not "just for kids" anymore. Sailor Moon and their premium cosmetics/figure line would be another example. No dolls or cheap plastic magic rods for little girls there! Even Digimon Tri seems like it is more for an older audience, with an older cast and a different art style. |
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Blanchimont
 Posts: 3461 Location: Finland |
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The amount of work needed for a visual novel can vary much. It can be relatively little. Or insane. Word counts for a few flagship titles, measured in English word equivalents; Grisaia ~1,0M, Clannad ~1,29M. Compare to; Bible ~1,0M, LotR trilogy 0,47M. |
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Greed1914
 Posts: 4463 |
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That FF15 "controversy" doesn't seem like much of an issue when you look at it the way Todd said in the article. I don't get the impression that Square Enix went into this with the idea of putting a "No girls allowed' sticker on the cover. The bit about being more "approachable" seems questionable at first, but this would be far from the first time that something a Japanese dev said was given unintended meaning. I remember some time after Metal Gear Solid 4 came out and Kojima said something along the lines of thinking there were parts that could have been better. It was meant to be a humble comment about always striving to improve, and people ran with it like Kojima thought it was the worst game he ever made.
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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So it would seem that if you want to make a game about men forming friendships with one another and showing camaraderie as they learn to work together, then that's automatically sexist against women. But if the developers put token female characters into the game for the sole purpose of obtaining an "acceptable" gender ratio and stave off criticism, then somehow that isn't sexist towards women. Sigh. The PC brigade really have gotten out of control.
First of all, what happened to men being able to hang out with one another - and perhaps go on an adventure with each other - without needing a female character as part of their group? The hilarious implication from a story context is that a man can't save the world or even form friendships with other men without a woman holding their hand. (Actually, as an aside, when was the last game or anime that you saw where men bonding with one another was actually a vital part of the story? They're not common, I can tell you that.) And secondly, aren't there plenty of examples of actual sexism in games to worry about first, before people concern themselves with something as trivial as this? I'm talking about ghastly pieces of work like the infamously awful Ride to Hell: Retribution, or all the games which still use the dead-lover-as-a-pretext-for-revenge trope. Those are the sorts of games that people should ask questions of, not FFXV.
Yes, it could, as in it might, but it shouldn't have to. If FFXV aims to simply and unpretentiously be a "boys road trip story with a bit of saving the world thrown in for good measure", then why would it need to have such themes in it? Why should it have to feel like it must comment on gender politics? And for good measure: why is it that a game can't have an all-male main cast without also making an inadvertent statement? By having an all-male main cast FFXV is not saying it has contempt for women, just that the story that was envisaged for it is about a group of characters who happen to all be men. |
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strawberry-kun
Posts: 301 |
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I won't be buying Final Fantasy XV because of the controversy. However, for me, it's not really about feminism. I just like playing as girl characters especially in RPGs. I also hate the whole bromance theme. I don't give a crap about those kind of relationships in fiction. It's just not interesting to me. Matter of fact, I'd be ecstatic if I never heard anything with "bro" in it ever again outside of brother.
I'll just wait for Neptunia PS4 and Bravely Second. |
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Blue21
Posts: 244 |
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I think it's fine if a game wants to have an all-male playable cast, but when the devs justify their choice by saying that "the absence of women makes it more approachable to players", I just can't defend that.
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Primus
 Posts: 2777 Location: Toronto |
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Just a correction: the first Digimon Story actually dates back to 2006. The first two games in the series were localized under the Digimon World banner. Including Cyber Sleuth, we've missed out on the following three games. If you include the two PSP titles, the last five Japan-oriented Digimon games haven't been released in the west.
As for the target demo for Cyber Sleuth, well, I don't think it's a coincidence the game launched on an older skewing platform in a year when the franchise is doing a nostalgia-oriented anime series. Looking at the game itself, you have well publicized staff like Suzuhito Yasuda on character designs and Masafumi Takada as a composer. Kids don't really care about stuff like that. In fact, Cyber Sleuth's original teaser site said something to the effect of it being aimed at the children that grew up with Digimon. |
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kurowa-san
Posts: 51 |
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It's like saying the Backstreet Boys didn't care about women because of the name and the lineup.
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Stuart Smith
 Posts: 1298 |
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That's just how the culture surrounding the games industry has become. A lot of complaining, but very little action. Though I wouldn't worry about FFXV too much, Japanese companies generally don't listen to the PC crowd like western companies do. If they want an all male cast, they'll make it. A shame Square can't just come right out and talk about visual kei and fujoshi culture. -Stuart Smith |
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Gasero
 Posts: 939 Location: USA |
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When I saw the four male protagonists of FF 15, I had the complete OPPOSITE reaction. I thought "Females are going to LOVE these characters!"
Besides, most of the Japanese media I've consumed has terribly written female characters. FF 13 didn't change a thing about that opinion. |
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strawberry-kun
Posts: 301 |
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That has more to do with poor writing in general. Most media is poorly written. It's not like the Final Fantasy guy characters are paragons of great writing either. Cloud, Vaan, Squall, Tidus, etc., are every bit as bad as Lightning. XIII just stands out because it's the newest non-MMO entry and was a bad game in general. |
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Guile
Posts: 595 |
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I find the exact opposite. Japan has some of the best because they generally don't have people criticizing everything they do like we do here. A show like Sailor Moon or Pretty Cure would never get off the ground in modern America because of too many backseat writers and critics. Just look at everytime a cartoon or game gets forced into caving into PC demands or censorship. FFXIII still has some of the best lesbians in video games if only because their sexual identification isn't the actual focus or core component of their characters, it's just a side thing. Definitely better handled than whatever indie game dev thinks is good writing for homosexual women. |
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Raebo101
 Posts: 802 |
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That's cool and all, but... I don't remember Vanille and Fang being lesbians. They're really close, but that doesn't automatically make them lesbians. Then again, maybe they are, but the games didn't state it outright and that's why I don't remember? Eh, I just think that makes as much sense as calling Korra and Asami from Legend of Korra lesbians. 
And, on FFXV, just because there aren't playable female characters doesn't mean the female characters that ARE in the game won't be well written. It's a boys' road trip disguised as a Final Fantasy game. What's so wrong about that? |
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Mune
Posts: 376 Location: Minnesota |
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While it is not stated that Vanille and Fang are lesbians, a lot of people think they. It was never outright stated by anyone working on the game or in-game that they were. Now, Korra and Asami in Legend of Korra, is another matter entirely because the creators said that it was canon as a lesbian couple. I believe the reasons why fans are up in arms against the statement of the male only cast are because: 1. It has never been done before for males (if you are counting FF1 as having mixed genders). 2. They gave a reason. And the reason feels like an attack on how males act differently around females. Which is not the same as X-2. I believe that Square-Enix was banking on male fans buying in on the basis of sequel and portrayal of female characters in different outfits (which could be seen as obvious if you watch the poses they make when changing) while also trying to appeal to female fans. 3. It is the first next generation Final Fantasy having playable representation in the game seems rather important. I'm angry that the cast doesn't have more diversity for playable characters. 4 guys, all from somewhat similar backgrounds (race, gender, class). It can be hard to get someone to play the game if they don't connect with any of the characters. I'm sort of looking forward to XV despite criticism, but it still makes me a bit sad about this announcement since I usually like the female characters better than the male ones in Final Fantasy. I've been waiting since 2006 and this announcement won't make me want to abandon my hope (no pun intended). |
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