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EP. REVIEW: Irregular at Magic High School: Visitor Arc


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T.Silver



Joined: 13 Jul 2015
Posts: 163
PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 8:05 pm Reply with quote
Richard Eisenbeis wrote:
T.Silver wrote:

I'm assuming you've seen the movie, but ill tag it just in case. spoiler[Remember that scene where the group is deciding to help Kokoa rescue her sisters? Everyone gave their input, except for Tatsuya. He took a moment, closed his, and we were given a flashback of a dying woman with a young Tatsuya by her side. And then opened up his eyes and agreed to help her. You see that woman was very important to him and those girls reminded him of her and shortly after their discussion he and Miyuki are sitting outside alone together, and he basically apologizes to her for making such a decision based on his own feelings.]That a pretty big example that you might have overlooked.

I will say for the most part Tatsuya can be a pretty indifferent individual and is capable of making cold hard decisions, there's no denying that. But he does genuinely care for his friends spoiler[and a few of his family members, that haven't shown themselves yet]. The Vistors Arc does show a lot of evidence of Tatsuya being genuinely kind and caring towards others aside from Miyuki, so hopefully if the adaption doesn't cut to many corners you can see more of it for yourself.


Side note: You know, I had forgotten about that little flash in the movie (because I didn't and still don't have any idea of the context). The problem is that as the movie takes place after this arc, I can't be sure how it fits in with the mindset of the Tatsuya in season 2. Heck, I can't even be sure if it is an exception to his Miyuki-centric worldview (well, yet anyway). It'd be nice if season 2 dramatically changes how I view the movie.

Visitors arc is one of my favorite arcs largely due to Tatsuya's growth as a person. Like I said earlier I just hope the adaption doesn't cut to many corners. He's such an introspective character in the books, it's hard to guage his full personality from the anime cause 90% of his thoughts and feelings are expressed internally. So he's a very tough to just show, rather than tell.

Yeah, the context comes from the 8th volume in the series. The movie was definitely more aimed at the fans who also read the novels(I believe the author even said he thought that was the last animation the series was going to get, so he probably wrote the script in the way he did to satisfy novel readers and to also entice anime-only watchers to try out the novels). For whatever reason they've decided to hold off on adapting it even though it contains some very important info on the backstory of the Shiba siblings. 8 bit could be saving it for a potential movie, cause it isn't nearly long enough to make an entire season off of it, but we'll see.
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The Scream Man



Joined: 01 Mar 2020
Posts: 156
Location: Sydney, Australia
PostPosted: Thu Oct 22, 2020 9:05 pm Reply with quote
I wish Id known the movie was set after S2. I was avoiding spoilers, and when the new season started i realized id forgotten a lot of what had happened, so I watched S1 again. Then, seeing there was a movie I watched that too. I was halfway through before I got confused about who this Lina person was that they all knew. Then i looked it up and discovered the timeline.

Really annoying Sad
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T.Silver



Joined: 13 Jul 2015
Posts: 163
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:34 am Reply with quote
Just a few things:

The way the seal works is that Miyuki uses a portion of her power(i.e her control) to suppress Tatsuya's powers. You know the instances in the series where Miyuki will sometimes involuntary activate her magic when she's emotional disturbed? That's a side effect of the seal. So what Tatsuya did was essentially copied the process she did, which lifted the limiter and gave her back the full control of her magic.

Also about Lina with her identity being revealed and her commiting treason. She's fortunate that the people who know her identity and shouldn't aren't the type to share secrets(secrets that could potentially cause a lot of political and international problems), so her identity is still safe. As for commiting treason, yeah your not wrong about that. What she did was probably objectively the wrong thing to do, but this kinda goes into one of the over arcing plots of this season, Lina is to kind to be in the military. She doesn't want to kill if she can help it, especially friends. Lina was actually thinking of fighting her way out before Tatsuya came up with the proposal of having a non-lethal duel to settle matters. To her that was a life-line and she took it without hesitation. Also no one else is aware of her sharing the Intel to Tatsuya who would inform the USNA, so she should be fine.

(Note: Tatsuya took her mask off because it operates as a communications device too, so he didn't want her calling for more reinforcements. Plus he wanted her to cut the act so they could talk and possibly form and temporary Alliance to combat the parasite threat.So he really had no ill intentions.)
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Lord Vaultman



Joined: 03 Mar 2017
Posts: 810
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:34 am Reply with quote
T.Silver wrote:
Just a few things:

The way the seal works is that Miyuki uses a portion of her power(i.e her control) to suppress Tatsuya's powers. You know the instances in the series where Miyuki will sometimes involuntary activate her magic when she's emotional disturbed? That's a side effect of the seal. So what Tatsuya did was essentially copied the process she did, which lifted the limiter and gave her back the full control of her magic.

Also about Lina with her identity being revealed and her commiting treason. She's fortunate that the people who know her identity and shouldn't aren't the type to share secrets(secrets that could potentially cause a lot of political and international problems), so her identity is still safe. As for commiting treason, yeah your not wrong about that. What she did was probably objectively the wrong thing to do, but this kinda goes into one of the over arcing plots of this season, Lina is to kind to be in the military. She doesn't want to kill if she can help it, especially friends. Lina was actually thinking of fighting her way out before Tatsuya came up with the proposal of having a non-lethal duel to settle matters. To her that was a life-line and she took it without hesitation. Also no one else is aware of her sharing the Intel to Tatsuya who would inform the USNA, so she should be fine.

(Note: Tatsuya took her mask off because it operates as a communications device too, so he didn't want her calling for more reinforcements. Plus he wanted her to cut the act so they could talk and possibly form and temporary Alliance to combat the parasite threat.So he really had no ill intentions.)


Even with that whole power seal explanation I am still thoroughly confused.
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zrnzle500



Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Posts: 3767
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:50 am Reply with quote
Unless the USNA was currently at war with Japan (and that doesn’t seem to be the case, given they still have exchange students between them), it wouldn’t be treason, at least as it is defined in the Constitution. It would nonetheless be a very serious crime, at least unauthorized disclosure of classified information, compounded by the facts that it was to a foreign national, and one that has worked with a foreign military and/or security agency (not sure offhand which would best describe Tatsuya’s contacts, but the exact label wouldn’t change the severity of the crime). I’m not a lawyer, so I don’t know what the exact changes would be, but it certainly raises many red flags, and would probably mean a long jail sentence for her.
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T.Silver



Joined: 13 Jul 2015
Posts: 163
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 11:07 am Reply with quote
Lord Vaultman wrote:
T.Silver wrote:
Just a few things:

The way the seal works is that Miyuki uses a portion of her power(i.e her control) to suppress Tatsuya's powers. You know the instances in the series where Miyuki will sometimes involuntary activate her magic when she's emotional disturbed? That's a side effect of the seal. So what Tatsuya did was essentially copied the process she did, which lifted the limiter and gave her back the full control of her magic.

Also about Lina with her identity being revealed and her commiting treason. She's fortunate that the people who know her identity and shouldn't aren't the type to share secrets(secrets that could potentially cause a lot of political and international problems), so her identity is still safe. As for commiting treason, yeah your not wrong about that. What she did was probably objectively the wrong thing to do, but this kinda goes into one of the over arcing plots of this season, Lina is to kind to be in the military. She doesn't want to kill if she can help it, especially friends. Lina was actually thinking of fighting her way out before Tatsuya came up with the proposal of having a non-lethal duel to settle matters. To her that was a life-line and she took it without hesitation. Also no one else is aware of her sharing the Intel to Tatsuya who would inform the USNA, so she should be fine.

(Note: Tatsuya took her mask off because it operates as a communications device too, so he didn't want her calling for more reinforcements. Plus he wanted her to cut the act so they could talk and possibly form and temporary Alliance to combat the parasite threat.So he really had no ill intentions.)


Even with that whole power seal explanation I am still thoroughly confused.
Well yeah, the spells itself is much more complicated than that, I just tried to explain it in the most basic way to avoid spoilers. But if you have anything you're specifically confused about I can try to explain it better.
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thedarkemissary



Joined: 07 Apr 2010
Posts: 88
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 5:08 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
...Lina herself is a Lieutenant Colonel and reports directly to the Joint Chiefs of Staff—aka the leaders of the military. For a real-world equivalent, she is basically the leader of Delta Force. Thus, the idea that she would give up classified information—especially classified information about a US army unit conducting an illegal operation on Japanese soil—is pure insanity. The political fallout from this information (not to mention the additional information that AWOL USNA solders are committing serial killings in Tokyo) would cause a diplomatic incident that could lead to war...


I mean, she's also just a teenage girl.
And her leaders don't even trust her with the REAL details of the mission.
And she pretty much has carte blanche to execute her orders however she sees fit.

I liken it more to a James Bond type of agent making a judgment call to trust local allies. I mean,... a nuke just went off after a direct attack by foreign forces on strategic military magic assets across an entire harbor city and the only reaction was, "investigate." I'm sure "AWOL USNA soldiers committing serial killings on foreign soil," is just another Tuesday in the world of magicians.
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T.Silver



Joined: 13 Jul 2015
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 6:38 pm Reply with quote
thedarkemissary wrote:
Quote:
...Lina herself is a Lieutenant Colonel and reports directly to the Joint Chiefs of Staff—aka the leaders of the military. For a real-world equivalent, she is basically the leader of Delta Force. Thus, the idea that she would give up classified information—especially classified information about a US army unit conducting an illegal operation on Japanese soil—is pure insanity. The political fallout from this information (not to mention the additional information that AWOL USNA solders are committing serial killings in Tokyo) would cause a diplomatic incident that could lead to war...


I mean, she's also just a teenage girl.
And her leaders don't even trust her with the REAL details of the mission.
And she pretty much has carte blanche to execute her orders however she sees fit.
And that's also the real reason Lina is stuck in this predicament, the USNA brass. Not only did they decide to put the responsibility and burden of the title of Sirius on a teenage girl, they threw her in a spy op that she has no prior training for in a foreign country with spotty intel.

Now if we're talking from an aptitude standpoint, Lina does fit the Sirius title. Lina has been raised and trained by the military for most of her life, so she's been well trained both physically and mentally and her magic/combat ability is world-class. However, she is still a teenage girl and she still can fall into the pitfall of her own emotions. And from what we have seen from Lina, her true self(not her Angie Sirius persona) carries her emotions on her sleeve. Which ultimately goes to show what mattered most to the USNA when they chose her to be the next Sirius.
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SilverTalon01



Joined: 02 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 7:10 pm Reply with quote
So on the suspension of disbelief, I think it is important to remember that Lina was forced into being the leader of the stars because she is the one who can use WMD magic.

Our world but 75 years into the future? Yeah if WW2 never ended. One of the big things Tatsuya is fighting against is how the world treats magicians as weapons. Talented magicians are conscripted.

Lina isn't the guy who worked really hard and wanted to become the leader of Delta force. Lina is the girl who was railroaded into becoming the leader of Delta force. Lina wants to be loyal to the states, but they shoved too much onto a 16 year old girl is what this amounts to.

Lord Vaultman wrote:
Even with that whole power seal explanation I am still thoroughly confused.


Miyuki is using her power to suppress Tatsuya so the seal is effectively on both of them simultaneously. The kiss thing we saw here and back in S1 temporarily suspends the seal on both of them. For last time when Miyuki released it and this time when Tatsuya released it, the result is that both of them power up.
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Pidgeot18



Joined: 19 Jul 2015
Posts: 101
PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 9:10 pm Reply with quote
SilverTalon01 wrote:
So on the suspension of disbelief, I think it is important to remember that Lina was forced into being the leader of the stars because she is the one who can use WMD magic.

Our world but 75 years into the future? Yeah if WW2 never ended. One of the big things Tatsuya is fighting against is how the world treats magicians as weapons. Talented magicians are conscripted.

Lina isn't the guy who worked really hard and wanted to become the leader of Delta force. Lina is the girl who was railroaded into becoming the leader of Delta force. Lina wants to be loyal to the states, but they shoved too much onto a 16 year old girl is what this amounts to.


I'm guessing you have no experience with military training? Modern military training is a borderline abusive process; the primary point of such training is to break down the soldier as an individual and force them to integrate themselves into a larger team unit. Officer training makes you go through the entire process sleep-deprived, and special forces throws in underfed as well (average weight loss is something like 10-20 lbs). If this were too much for her, she ought to have cracked well before she got put into this situation.

Of course, there's the other dimension. If you're going to argue that it's based on the fact that she's a child, well, there's a reason that terrorist groups love child soldiers: child soldiers end up being the most fanatic, ideologically committed members of your group. These are people who have been kidnapped from their families, physically and sexually abused, indoctrinated, forced to commit murder, and come out the other end of the pipeline with a positive experience of the entire process.
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SilverTalon01



Joined: 02 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 10:17 pm Reply with quote
Pidgeot18 wrote:
I'm guessing you have no experience with military training? Modern military training is a borderline abusive process; the primary point of such training is to break down the soldier as an individual and force them to integrate themselves into a larger team unit. Officer training makes you go through the entire process sleep-deprived, and special forces throws in underfed as well (average weight loss is something like 10-20 lbs). If this were too much for her, she ought to have cracked well before she got put into this situation.


I'm guessing you're going to point me at the point she went through all of that right? When exactly was this? She is 16 (or maybe she is 17?) and even talented magicians still have to put in work... outside of Tatsuya.

See your argument falls flat when you consider how much experience you need to join the military and get that training. They train you. On the other hand, being a top level magician normally takes more than a decade of experience. Why would you think she would get the same treatment as a normal soldier when the entire point of forcing her into the military is for her magic? It makes much more sense to, you know, make sure she can do that magic stuff for you.

And your argument about child soldiers is even more ridiculous. You know who usually aren't that age? Doctors. Physicists. It is much easier to teach a kid to fire a gun than to teach them calculus. None of those traits you are speaking of that result in child soldiers are the traits that a high level magician would have. Mahouka's "Modern Magic" is the equivalent of an academic field. It is something people go to a university to learn. You're just completely ignoring that.
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Pidgeot18



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:11 am Reply with quote
SilverTalon01 wrote:
See your argument falls flat when you consider how much experience you need to join the military and get that training. They train you. On the other hand, being a top level magician normally takes more than a decade of experience. Why would you think she would get the same treatment as a normal soldier when the entire point of forcing her into the military is for her magic? It makes much more sense to, you know, make sure she can do that magic stuff for you.


Basic training is about 3 months long. Officer training is about another 3 months. Occupational training for most careers is about 6-9 months. Physical fitness conditioning pre-enlistment is generally longer, but you're putting as much time into that as you would for an after-school activity. The actual training portion of military service isn't that long; about a year's worth.

Quote:
And your argument about child soldiers is even more ridiculous. You know who usually aren't that age? Doctors. Physicists. It is much easier to teach a kid to fire a gun than to teach them calculus. None of those traits you are speaking of that result in child soldiers are the traits that a high level magician would have. Mahouka's "Modern Magic" is the equivalent of an academic field. It is something people go to a university to learn. You're just completely ignoring that.


I should emphasize again that military training doesn't take all that much time (in modern militaries, it's basically the equivalent of a few summer programs). Furthermore, the abuse and indoctrination process doesn't take time away from instruction; indeed, it can be well-integrated as part of the curriculum (e.g., as punishment). In modern education systems, kids still find time to squeeze in bullying and hazing during their instructional time.

I will admit that child soldiers are not known for having high flexibility (see especially Sparta). But the driving force there I would say is the extreme conservatism leaking into an unwillingness to acknowledge that tactics have changed from what they're used to. The Ottoman Janissaries (another well-known child soldier corps) were at their outset probably the most effective troops in Europe and were a major factor in driving Ottoman expansion into Europe. It's not unimaginable that you could develop a training program for magicians in such an environment, even if it is supposedly scholastically difficult.
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Key
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:55 am Reply with quote
You guys are overthinking this way too much.

This is anime. Teenagers having levels of skills, powers, training, and responsibility implausible for their age is par for the course, and you'll drive yourself batty trying to come up with justifications for it. Just grit your teeth, accept it at face value, and move on.
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The Scream Man



Joined: 01 Mar 2020
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 1:20 am Reply with quote
I think applying real world military ideals and situations wont work here. I mean this is still Anime Land, where teenagers regularly are trained up to fight in massive wars and conflicts. Id almost think of it more as an anime standard by this point.

So I may be misunderstanding, but this is how I think the Tatsuya/Miyuki seal works.

Tatsuyas power is so huge, that for whatever reason his family decided he was not able to control it on his own (Because he can essentially disintegrate anything he wants up to massive distances away). Miyuki is also massively strong, but not on a WMD level (Or maybe she is?), so a magical seal was developed that limits Tatsuyas power and speed of casting (Which is why he's "Irregular"). The "fuel" for this magic is about half of Miyukis power; Thats why the siblings are together most of the time, Why Miyukis power slips sometimes when she is upset, and why her regular power displays arent on the scale of what she did this episode.
Previously, Miyuki used the physical contact of a kiss to Tatsuyas forehead to remove the magic sealing his power; this has the duel effect of powering the 2 of them back up to WMD levels. I assume after Episode 24 of S1 the she re-established the limiter magic to put them both back to their "Normal" power levels. In this episode, Tatsuya used the same spell himself to break the seal (Though apparently his one has some sort of time limit before the seal re-establishes itself). I assume he knows the spell because thats his whole deal; he can analyze magic as it activates.

SOund right?
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SilverTalon01



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:40 am Reply with quote
The Scream Man wrote:
So I may be misunderstanding, but this is how I think the Tatsuya/Miyuki seal works.

Tatsuyas power is so huge, that for whatever reason his family decided he was not able to control it on his own (Because he can essentially disintegrate anything he wants up to massive distances away). Miyuki is also massively strong, but not on a WMD level (Or maybe she is?), so a magical seal was developed that limits Tatsuyas power and speed of casting (Which is why he's "Irregular"). The "fuel" for this magic is about half of Miyukis power; Thats why the siblings are together most of the time, Why Miyukis power slips sometimes when she is upset, and why her regular power displays arent on the scale of what she did this episode.
Previously, Miyuki used the physical contact of a kiss to Tatsuyas forehead to remove the magic sealing his power; this has the duel effect of powering the 2 of them back up to WMD levels. I assume after Episode 24 of S1 the she re-established the limiter magic to put them both back to their "Normal" power levels. In this episode, Tatsuya used the same spell himself to break the seal (Though apparently his one has some sort of time limit before the seal re-establishes itself). I assume he knows the spell because thats his whole deal; he can analyze magic as it activates.

SOund right?


It isn't just that Tatsuya's power is "huge" it is what he can do with it though based on what you had in parenthesis, maybe that is what you meant?

As you said, Miyuki is also super strong. She is ultra high end for magicians. spoiler[She does eventually cast "WMD" or strategic level magic.] Tatsuya isn't an irregular because of the seal, and the seal isn't what keeps his activation time so high when using "normal" magic. I believe the explanation for that was Tatsuya's inherent magic is what causes that (dispersion and regrowth).

As for the scale seen in the duel with Lina, Miyuki used the exact same magic during the 7 schools competition for the ice game. So yeah, she is stronger here, but that doesn't mean she can't use the exact same spell effectively with the seal. The comment she makes during the fight with Lina is regarding her control (like how we sometimes see her power leak out).

All of the times we've seen the seal "removed" have been temporary. There was actually another time in season 1 when the seal was removed which was before Tatsuya went to use material burst.

Pidgeot18 wrote:
Basic training is about 3 months long. Officer training is about another 3 months. Occupational training for most careers is about 6-9 months.


So you need at minimum of a year from a 16-17 year old that you also need to be at graduate level academic knowledge in her field. That isn't reasonable. Something had to go. You can disagree with where they cut the corners, but you're being unreasonable.

Pidgeot18 wrote:
I will admit that child soldiers are not known for having high flexibility (see especially Sparta). But the driving force there I would say is the extreme conservatism leaking into an unwillingness to acknowledge that tactics have changed from what they're used to. The Ottoman Janissaries (another well-known child soldier corps) were at their outset probably the most effective troops in Europe and were a major factor in driving Ottoman expansion into Europe. It's not unimaginable that you could develop a training program for magicians in such an environment, even if it is supposedly scholastically difficult.


You're still talking about fairly low level examples. Find me the child soldiers that are designing rockets, not firing one. What you're talking about can be taught or learned without needing years and years of underlying knowledge. Same thing with your comment about 6-9 months for most occupational training. That is true because you don't need to already have a lot of specific knowledge. For some occupations like being a doctor, you need a hell of a lot more than that for training because there is so much knowledge that you need to accumulate first.
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