Forum - View topicINTEREST: Veteran Producer Masao Maruyama Warns of Anime's Creative Decline
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Davy Sprocket
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Chinese animation is called donghua, not anime. And if one's argument is "most anime is generic and bad" then one probably hasn't watched much donghua. It has a far lower quality output than anime does.. Not as low as western animation, but most donghua look very similar to western animated films in that they use CG and look very cartoony and focus more on lighthearted, comedic stories. The most popular donghua in China this year so far was Shēn Hǎi, a film that would fit right at home out of Dreamworks or Illumination or modern Pixar. If that's what people want out of animation then it's no surprise they wouldn't like the more diverse and experimental nature of anime. For the record, anime repeatedly does better than donghua does in China, so evidently even Chinese audiences disagree with this sentiment.
The usual people who complain about modern anime and rant about things like isekai will no doubt agree with him out of their bitterness towards modern anime. But its no different than the people back in 2009 complaining about moe and saying K-On and Haruhi was the downfall of anime. And the nice thing is the industry will continue to march forward no matter what they think. Maybe it's time for them to accept anime isn't a hobby for them anymore. I hope these people can find something that brings them joy one day. I and many others will continue to enjoy our anime. But personally I will take the average anime everyday over donghua. There's yet to be a series that really stands out reaches such massive success and appeal, but there's hundreds of anime you can name. |
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Saeryen
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Yeah, I agree with this. It's why I get frustrated when people complain about all the copycat male harem isekai while ignoring the shoujosei, iyashikei and slice of life stuff (note I say "while," some people do acknowledge this stuff when they complain about the other, which is nice). My big gripe is when people pretend Pretty Cure (and, for this season, Tokyo Mew Mew) doesn't exist while saying "all anime is guys with harems." |
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FeelMyBlade
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There hasn't been any significant Chinese animated work that has caught on globally. Even in China, anime is a huge cultural force there. But I believe Maruyama is just speaking from a subjective and creative point of view, which is hard to argue against since it's all opinion, although I personally disagree with him on that. I'd be curious to know which Chinese works he likes specifically though because I can't say I've ever seen any that really catch my attention. It is odd he would say something like this when MAPPA has been one of the kings of the world when it comes to animation for the past few years now. Although it is a bit ironic MAPPA only took off right after he stepped down as CEO and appointed Manabu Otsuka to take over. I don't want to say he might be bitter over that but for someone who works at MAPPA it's pretty odd he would sell anime so short when they're pumping out a lot of the best stuff in the industry at the moment. I suspect his comment on appealing to the masses is perhaps stemming from resentfulness that the stuff he might want to make is not all that popular compared to what the audiences actually likes. A guy who wants to make an arthouse indie film being forced to work on Vinland Saga, Attack on Titan, and Jujutsu Kaisen might think China is more appealing as they're not in the habit of pumping out huge franchises and global hits. |
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ViviP
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I think quite a few people value being anime fans far more than actually being able to watch and enjoy anime. If you so choose so, being an anime fan can give you something to socialise over, drama to get worked up about, a sense of community and belonging, rivalries. For lots people the actual watching of anime is just watching television and most of the fun comes afterwards. So I don’t think telling someone to give up what may have been a very large part of their life for years just because they no longer like one part of the experience is going to work. (I do think it’s the sensible thing to do though) I find it pretty easy to see this line of thinking in Maruyama‘s stance, through a professional lens. “The 81-year-old acknowledged his career was in its twilight, and Maruyama was far from optimistic as he prepared to leave behind an industry he helped shape.” Is a quote from the original article, I think the “industry he helped shape.” is the key point here. When you have a large part in creating something it becomes hard to seperate it from yourself in your own mind, but the reality is he is only one of a million to everybody else. So when something akin to his own child starts acting in ways he disapproves, of course he has a problem with it. But what I think Maruyama fails to see, is that he’s sharing custody with a lot of other people. |
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Uchay
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Eh, I get where the worry comes from, but this sounds a bit like an exaggeration, imo. I still find anime I'm interested in, even when the season is littered with generic or eye rolling shows. I guess being worried about the bubble bursting, so to say, is reasonable, considering just how many low effort (in both creativity and budge) anime are out there, but to say they are going to go creatively bankrupt is a tad too much.
Just recently we've had absolutely great works, some that even manage to attract a crowd that isn't normally interested in anime, like SpyxFamily (just like Cowboy Beepop was a gateway for so many people back in the day). This season alone we have Skip and Loafer/Oshi no Ko, and if I'm to list everything that was highly regarded for the past three years I'll be here the enitre day, and all of those, or almost all, had amazingly well done animation. I'll, however, say that as far as novels go, I've been enjoying chinese/korean novels far more than japanese ones these last years. It's been a long, long time since I picked any japanese light novel...and I do find it interesting that they've started to adapt korean novels like Raeliana as anime Last edited by Uchay on Thu May 04, 2023 7:58 pm; edited 4 times in total |
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xxmsxx
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I am pretty sure Maruyama left MAPPA before Yuri on Ice circa 2016 and didn't have anything to do with all three properties. Edit: Okay, he handed over the position of CEO. |
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Zoltan Kakler
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The only Chinese animation I saw was the Kings Avatar and I didn't really like it much. But it also didn't really seem to be anything super unique or different than an anime.
There's a popular meme of "X fan excited to play X for the first time" that's basically about how people like the idea of being part of a fandom or group of people, even if they don't particularly care or know what the particular piece of media is about at all. There's a section of anime fans who want to keep the anime fan identity, but they don't like anime anymore.... or they can only find enjoyment in one or two shows out of the entire year and spend the rest of the time complaining or waxing about the Good Old Days but they don't want to move on. But at some point they do have to realize that maybe it's not that 99% of anime sucks, it's that they've grown out of the medium. Japan is not making nothing but bad anime, they're make anime for the people who do like the medium and it just so happens to not be for them. And that's okay. I can totally see how a man who helped shape the industry for so many years feels like it's left him behind. Most of the industry people who make comments like this are in the same situation. |
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AJ (LordNikon)
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Putting your ageism quote aside, and fact that you too will grow old, industry is doomed, but not because of China. There would have to major paradigm shift in China that I do not foresee happening anytime soon from own geo-political structure; biggest fear should be AI is going to be more disruptive to industry than shift from hand drawn to CG and commoditization combined. Once AI can do all work with no need to pay animation staff...
Americans use to say same thing about Japanese cars, electronics, etc... It was not long ago either.
Amen! |
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garfield15
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I seem to remember the scare was that were nervous about those taking over, as in that they acknowledged they could become a force in their industries, not that they had no chance of dominating at all which is what is being said there |
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Ming Yi
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This is a good point to make.
Off-topic, but as someone who speaks Japanese, seeing "shoujosei" is so weird because it means "femininity" and not shorthand for "shojo and josei manga." |
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Chiyosuke
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Just a quick note. Although Marutama stepped down as MAPPA's CEO, he's still the company's chairman...
https://prtimes.jp/main/html/rd/p/000000083.000071793.html |
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Blazi
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With Link Click being a thing I can see some concern, yes, though with unique stuff like Luo Xiaohei and the former there is so much other less good quality, very Chinese cultural based (which is not a bad thing, its just it gets old after a while), creativity restricting animes that also come with it, so the quality factor is like 1 great to 20 rinse and repeat. It gets more tiring than iskeais honestly. A good warning, though I can't see it happening unless major things change around.
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Snowcat
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At this point the crisis in japanese animation is nothing new. Already present in Newtype from 1984 with Otomo and Miyazaki, so i always take it with a grain of salt...
In my opinion, on the creativity aspect: - technical creativity using the medium is still present in various productions but because of lack of financing it is probably not enough. And the formation of next generation of animator is the major problem here: not enough money for formation and the salaries are too low to keep talents. - In term of storytelling creativity, the original stories in animation have decreased since the 90's but the creativity still come from manga authors. I suppose the cost of animation is the reason why less original production are done: lack of finance make studio risk averse. But, for the most part, the original creation from studios had the quality of writing of a LN, it's the diversity of stories that is lost with current LN adaptation, not the quality of writing. At the moment, the anime industry is still resilient to the self-censorship/propaganda trend that is destroying Hollywood and partially resilient to the puritanical trend in Japan. I hope that they don't listen to people who pretend to know better about "international market or modern audience" in the future. In animation, 80% of the production has always been low quality, the fact that this is still the case with a lot of isekai clones nowadays isn't surprising and don't indicate much about the state of the industry except that they have trouble to found new way of financing outside the LN/manga advertisement market. The gatcha game industry had provided some opportunities but it's limited. Same for the idol market. Concerning the otaku centered production: it was already the case before, Gainax was an Otaku centered studio and targeted otaku with Gunbuster/Honeamise for example. That's not a concern at all for creativity. |
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Unculturedman
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As someone who hasn't really enjoyed anime since 2015 and has only been observing the industry from afar for years without actually watching anything, I'd have to agree, and not just with the creativity aspect, but the overall quality of anime as well. I just wonder, what happened to all the awesome anime original series? Stuff like Cowboy Bebop, Samurai Champloo, Gurren Lagann, Eureka 7, and Code Geass? These days everything seems to be an adaptation of a generic, poorly written LN or modern shonen battle manga (which has also plummeted in quality since the mid 2010s). I used to adore anime as a kid and teenager, now I just find myself rereading and rewatching all the stuff I loved when I was younger because I just can't stand modern anime and manga. Most new stuff I've had to either force my way through or drop entirely because it's just not doing it for me anymore. Maybe it's just time for me and others who feel the same to move on, but I can still feel bitter about the downfall of my favorite entertainment industries. If anyone is interested in anime alternatives, I highly recommend checking out Japanese RPGs. Many of them are incredible and the modern releases are just as great if not better than the classics.
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TheSleepyMonkey
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Or you just grew tired of it. Doesn't mean it completely crashed or fell down. It's contradictory to say you "watched from afar without actually watching anything" but then talk as if nothing even remotely good came out in all these past few years. |
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