Forum - View topicREVIEW: Fate/Zero Blu-Ray Box Set 1
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Cptn_Taylor
Posts: 925 |
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Infodump warrants a mediocre grade. It's never a good way to tell a story. Doubly so when we're talking anime. |
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daichi383
 Posts: 313 Location: England |
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I agree 100% on the point about the animation. People need to stop confusing art and animation because animation as a term implies bringing motion to a static object and lots of static headshots is not animation. I do however still enjoy the look of the show in terms of the art as i beleive the way ufotable does all the filters and effects works incredibly well for me. Too bad the CG wasn't a tad better but i can forgive that.
On the story front, coming from someone new to the franchise i found the exposition heavy first episode quite intriguing and it continued to build for me with all the different stories being equally interesting to me so i will disagree with you on that but otherwise the review is pretty spot on. |
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FenixFiesta
Posts: 2581 |
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There are several popular modern anime series that could be described as "Info dump: The Anime Series" and fans in Japan and internationally still enjoy said shows (Bakemonogatari would be a modern prime example) so circumstantially just being an info dump doesn't mean the series should be simply marked as "mediocre" if the style works out for the context of the given series. |
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Barbobot
 Posts: 460 |
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Noones saying people can't enjoy that kind of show, but from an animation standpoint it's boring animation generally. Bakemonogatari deals with this with very kinetic camera movements and angles to make the talking head scenes interesting. |
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FenixFiesta
Posts: 2581 |
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That is what I assume a Story score is for when it comes to the series given Narrative as opposed to the animation quality (on both accounts Carlos gave a C). You can have a series that has a strong story but have mediocre or possibly bad animation and vice versa. That is why I specifically quoted Cptn_Taylor as his pov seem to be of the manner that if "the series focusses on info dump it can only be mediocre at best". |
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Barbobot
Posts: 460 |
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Well if a show is almost all straight info dump it deserves to get some points knocked in the story department as well cause that's a boring and lazy way to tell a story in a visual medium.
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FenixFiesta
Posts: 2581 |
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Might have something to due with the nature that Visual Novels are no where near as popular as a format outside of Japan.
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The King of Harts
 Posts: 6712 Location: Mount Crawford, Virginia |
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But to bring back a point Blood- and I brought up that got lost in the...shuffle: Are talking heads and walking circles around someone the fault of the animators? Shouldn't criticism of the animation be directed towards the quality of the actual animation? If someone has a problem with too many talking heads and still shots, shouldn't that blame be shifted to the writers, storyboard artists and directors? Like I said, the fight between Lancer and Saber has great choreography and power when they clashed blades, but it's not Nozomu Abe's or the other animator's fault that a 12 minute fight is 80% dialogue. It's not their fault the two constantly stop fighting to talk to one another. Why are the animator's being faulted for the plotting of an episode? That stuff is decided way before the pen touches the cel. Also, a point I didn't bring up earlier but will now since the pace of the thread has slowed down: Since when is having little animation bad animation? Galap brought up, even though he's on your side of this argument, but I'll use one his points, that anime is a narrative and sometimes people just talk - not everything is or can be dynamic. People sitting down and talking isn't bad animation, it's just little animation and it's actually usually appropriate for the situation. As long as everything is staying on model and smooth while they're talking, I don't see why that's necessarily bad animation. You may have a problem and think it's too limited, which is a fair criticism, but I still don't think that should be the fault of the animation crew and falls on the shoulders of the directors for making those decisions beforehand. I just don't think the criticisms are being properly distributed. Last edited by The King of Harts on Sun Dec 22, 2013 5:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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FenixFiesta
Posts: 2581 |
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But to side for the Critics POV for a moment, as simply acting a viewer of the media the critic (and the general audience for that matter) won't know off hand that there are issues with budget distribution and any other behind the scene problems that effect the final product the viewer/critic will only know what they are watching that is in front of there eyes. If a Critic has a to research every detail behind a given series just to say "well I understand the studio had issues, but they spent there money wisely so in this case it gets a B for animation even though it appears to be flawed" Too much time would be used up when they could be watching many other series to stay on there own task as reviewers. That said, the issue that is brought up through the thread is a consistent trend in Carlos critique itself (when compared to a past review of Blue Exorcist as the example) than the actual judgment upon the series. |
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danilo07
 Posts: 1580 |
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It doesn't matter on who the blame is to fall on,there are lot of static headshots hence the average grade in animation.Besides the blame might fall on animators themselves actually.Perhaps director felt that animators wouldn't be able to animate more requiring scenes,so he chose to go with safe route?It is really useless to think about it though,cause it still isn't animated.It would be like increasing animation grade for Kill la Kill because it is not animators fault that they worked on a show with a low budget.Yeah it is not,doesn't make the animation-less scenes any more animated though.
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Fencedude5609
 Posts: 5088 |
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But the point is that almost no other show I can think of has had its animation judged that way.
Shows with OBJECTIVELY WORSE ANIMATION have gotten better animation scores. |
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walw6pK4Alo
 Posts: 9322 |
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And static headshots are a component of most TV anime. It really comes off as biased against Fate/Zero for arbitrary reasons, unless every future TV anime has F in animation from Carlos from now on.
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Fencedude5609
Posts: 5088 |
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By this standards, the only shows that even would remotely qualify as being well animated are recent KyoAni productions |
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The King of Harts
Posts: 6712 Location: Mount Crawford, Virginia |
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But it does because aspects of the show are being unjustly criticized. The animation throughout the show is fabulous. Even the infamous "walking in circles" scene is animated just fine. The fact that it exists and bothers people isn't because the animation is average; it's a poor decision on the part of the director. There is no reason to blame the animation because of plotting decisions by the director. If someone like, say, Shinbo, had been director, but nothing else changed about the animation crew, we wouldn't be having these arguments because he, as the director, wouldn't let those dull talking scenes be so dull because he'd use his creativity to prevent it. He'd instruct his storyboard artists and animation crew much differently. Ei Aoki wasn't creative enough to spice up the talking scenes, but it's the animation talking the fall. Next time you watch Fate/Zero turn the sound off, and you'll be annoyed by people constantly standing around and talking, but every time someone turns a head, lifts an arm, goes to sit down/stand up, takes a step, laughs, yells, cries, you'll see that it's actual animation is better than average. Am I right in my stance? I don't know, but until someone comes with a better argument supporting the criticisms than "but the still shots", I will stand by it. |
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P(mv)rick
Posts: 9 |
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I heard one of the 'animation gurus' here say that he rates the animation quality of shows from their highest points in the series, no matter how 'dull' the normal scenes would look like, just like Naruto and shit.
And he then proceeds to agree that Fate/Zero only deserves a C-grade animation with that kind of logic. So he's saying that Fate/Zero's HIGHEST DEGREE of Animation Quality deserves a C. *slow clap* [Mod Edit: Was it the same reviewer. Where's the citation? I highly recommend you start supporting your attacks or you're done here. At least this post wasn't such a direct attack at others that it got to stay. So ... *slow clap* ... that's progress for you.] |
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