Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! - RANTS RANTS RANTS!
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Steventheeunuch
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(thanks nagisa) |
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Mithrandir2K
Posts: 24 |
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It's always interesting to see the differences and similarities between fandom as it exists on one side of the Pond compared to the other.
Rant 1: Some very reasonable points. I agree with you that Americans don't speak English - in its purest form, the language is too grammatically complex and possessed of too many innate double-vowels for many Americans to manage, if the internet is any indicator 
Likewise, I agree with the point you make regarding the preference for local-language dubs over local-language subtitles, or vice versa. It is an issue of personal choice. I feel you might better have highlighted certain points of contention - the infantile arguments that one is always 'better' than the other, generally made by people who only watch one and not the other are, in particular, accentuated by the subsequently emerging forum discussion. As a subjective, personal note, I watch anime in both languages. When you're paying $39 per disk (retail price in the United Kingdom), you invariably seek to get the most out of your money. The point you raise regarding so-called 'fansub ethics' is, I must confess, a new one for me. By and large, within the core of UK fandom, it is understood that so long as the DVDs are purchased should they be made available in the US - 'It isn't available in my High Street so I shouldn't have to buy it" has never been considered an accepted excuse over here - then the viewing of fansubs is very much a 'no harm, no foul' activity. That said, all conventions in the UK, quite unlike many conventions in the US, are prevented from showing any fansubbed material on pain of prosecution by three notable Japanese animation firms, following certain changes in business practise by those firms over the past 24 months. So a form of moritorium does exist, in that regard. Regarding 'anti-H' sentiment, again this is something new to me. In the UK, the predeliction for some members of the fanbase to watch "various tabs inserted into various slots" is simply accepted; light-hearted humour exists, where people might crack jokes about so'n'so being a "collosal pervert", but I've never seen the adult screenings at a convention obstructed by a picket line O_o So yes, while there is a culture of light-hearted japes targetted at the "yaoi fangirl" populus and the "H-fans", there certainly aren't militant movements to impinge upon those subgroups enjoying whatever it is they enjoy. It is worth noting, however, that recent proposed legislation within the UK is in consultation stage, and could potentially outlaw upwards of 75% of hentai, yaoi and yuri material, making its possession a criminal offence punishable by up to 3 years in prison, an unlimited fine, and addition to the sex offenders register. Finally, while again the paddle isn't something I have come across (under UK convention rules on props, I'd suspect they would be confiscated by all conventions over here), glomping is something which is increasingly a cause for concern. The traditional hotelier's view of con-going fandom in the UK once famously summed up by Aya Next's venue, was "They drink like rugby players and behave like chess players". This view is morphing as more excitable people enter fandom who do not feel the weight of the fifteen years of restraint anime fans in the UK were forced to observe - where being an anime fan automatically equated to being a pervert and a social leper. Now, the fact that the youngsters - and oldsters newer to fandom - do not feel the need to be at all introverted about their fandom is, from a certain point of view, an admirable step forward. I'm sure if anime had been as 'mainstream' when I first discovered it, I would have been much more comfortable to share my love of the medium with the world at large. I'm not saying I'd be more likely to have walked around college carrying a bag with the Hentai Inside logo, or actually papered my living room with Megami posters, but I'd certainly have worn anime-related t-shirts, and possibly put my more subdued polystones on display in the lounge. But the flip-side of the coin regarding this newfound acceptance within mainstream, and the new fans that have arrived at the same time as this acceptance, is they have never had to obscure their fandom from the world. They do not know what being an anime fan was like at the height of Manga Ents popularity pre-1997, and as such they do not fear a possible return to that situation. The most common argument I have heard on this subject is that the pendulum swings - anime fandom is accepted, someone does something stupid and we are demonised, then people forget the stupidity after time, and so on. I accept that press paradigms shift, but I do believe that fans should temper exuberance with common sense - both in their day to day lives, and at conventions and expos - and that if they can do that, anime fandom can enjoy its current situation indefinitely. And I'm not pessimistic enough to believe this is an impossible goal 
Rant 2: I understand the point you endeavour to make, but I do think there might be a touch of overreaction in your response to the occasional "Narutard" or, more recently, "Harutard" jibe. What's important to recognise here is that it is not something new to fandom: it isn't a reaction to Naruto, or Haruhi, or Ouran. Fandom at large has always identified groups of fans in the context of the material they enjoy - if someone enjoys Kaishaku and Sonoda manga, they're traditionally assumed to be a perv; if someone says they understand the End of Evangelion movie, they're assumed to be a liar and a fantasist; if someone enjoys KO Beast. they're assumed to be a furry; if someone enjoys KO Beast doujinshi, they're assumed to be a furvert; if someone collects every Akematsu manga ever released, they're assumed to have a thing for little girls. That's just the way it is. I think, in part, this references back to my earlier point about the acceptance of anime in general by the mainstream. When all fans were demonised, there was no harm in joking amongst ourselves about the easily demonisable parts of the material we enjoyed. If the world thinks you're a pervert, then a friend saying, "Mate, that Rally-cross-Misty doujin is sick'n'wrong - I mean, really" is easy to laugh at. As such, fans who remember that treatment just laugh about "Narutard" jokes and equate them to earlier 'harmless' discrimination - don't make the mistake of thinking only new fans watch new material, I personally love Haruhi and Ouran. But newer fans - I won't say younger - haven't had those earlier experiences and, as such, take these comments more to heart than they ought to. Similarly, newer fans make these comments - picking on other areas of fandom - not in the good-humoured fashion of yesteryear, where such jibes actually fostered solidarity, but as a method of point-scoring and hiking their own self-esteem. So, in short, yes, I admit there is a problem - but the problem doesn't lie in people using terms like "Narutard" and "Harutard" - it lies in how some people perceive those terms, and how some people use them. Rant 3: Um... So you like yaoi, but dislike watching it with people who giggle at the word balls. Maybe watch it by yourself, then 
Well, this post was a little longer than I'd intended. -Will |
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naruto fan 09812
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I would like to respone to rant #1 on the issue of sub vs.dub. Even though I would hate to see them go but I think all fansubs should be gone. I think its hurting the industry more than its helping. Also,its all fansubs was gone maybe the price of anime DVDs will go down. Futhermore,people who said sub is better than dub is usually not watching its legally. So,its will pretty much sub vs. dub debate. Its people go to jail for fansubbing its will eventually stop.
Last edited by naruto fan 09812 on Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:09 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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TheVok
Posts: 613 Location: North York, Ontario, Canada |
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That seems like a gross exaggeration. On what do you base that argument? |
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naruto fan 09812
Posts: 499 |
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Last edited by naruto fan 09812 on Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:08 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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britannicamoore
 Posts: 2618 Location: Out. |
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I have to wonder if column just caused more problems. the rants 1 & 2 basically break down to: everyone has their own opinion don't knock someone because of theirs.
But instead of having the affect: Hey let's just all like anime together it seems to have caused even more problems. Oh well..i guess a fourm is just being a fourm. 
Oh and I can kind of see what naruto fan is saying above. A lot of times (when i'm surfing the net) a lot of those people who say fansubs should go to hell watch fansubs themselves. Sure they go out and buy the product if its gets lisenced but what about the few that don't? They still watched it fansubbed. And more often than not they attack the fansubbing watchers as a whole instead of just the few rotten apples. I'm not knocking on fansubbers. More power to ya. he's just saying that the main problem are the people who watch fansubs and don't buy anything. |
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naruto fan 09812
Posts: 499 |
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I was wondering the same thing about these rants in the Hey,Answerman! articles. It just come down to a matter of opinion with these rants. But since this thread has started its been more about flaming than any thing else. Zac should have name the article Hey,Answerman-FLAME FLAME FLAME because that is the only thing that really happening here.
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TheVok
Posts: 613 Location: North York, Ontario, Canada |
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But that's not a fair sampling of the broad audience. For one thing, it doesn't take DVD-viewing into account. For another, even if everyone here watched fansubs, that wouldn't mean they necessarily preferred subtitles over dubbing. I'd wager most people watch fansubs because they're fast, easily accessible and free, not specifically because they're subtitled. |
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britannicamoore
Posts: 2618 Location: Out. |
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but they're fansubs. they're subtitled. the raws don't get as many views as the fansubs. nor do the dubs (in most cases) unless they're parodies. |
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TheVok
Posts: 613 Location: North York, Ontario, Canada |
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Fair enough, but it still doesn't mean that out of the overall Western audience for anime, most of the sub crowd watch fansubs. The gang that posts here (myself included) is in no way an accurate sampling of the whole audience, nor does talk of fansubs account for how people watch DVDs--which is, let's face it, much more difficult to measure, because no one can see whether an individual at home is choosing subtitles or dubbing. I'll admit I have an 'agenda'; I'm a fan of legitimate subtitles, so I bristle when I see subs lumped in with non-legit viewing habits, as though they're somehow one and the same. They're not. |
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naruto fan 09812
Posts: 499 |
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I think there is a very small percentage of people who actually watch DVDs sub anime and who perfer subs over dubs. The majority of people who watch sub over dub watch fansub only. Just like the previous poster said there are dub anime and raws there are easily accessible as fansubs. But there more fans of fansubs then any of the the other two. And you would be blind to says that none of these people are avid sub watchers.
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ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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so you're so freakin deluded and Self-righteous that you just pass of what I say as nothing. Fine, go ahead and think what ever you want. Since we are apparently beyond words: [I've been banned for 2 weeks because of this photo] Last edited by ikillchicken on Wed Apr 04, 2007 7:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar  Posts: 16941 |
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You're giving him what he wants then.Why bother continue to give him what he wants then? You're just sinking to his level and acting the same way. I'd imagine you've been here long enough to be smarter then that Steven. If you didn't care so much why bother to argue with him? Let him sit in the corner and argue with some cockroaches.
That's a riot coming from you. You're basically insulting yourself with that comment. considering that's all you do. "Convention pass $45 on debit Mastercard, dvd to get signed by VA $20 on debit Mastercard, Costume for cosplay of show on dvd $75 on debit Mastercard, watching ignorant little gnats open their mouths and insult themselves, PRICELESS." edit: Alright I think the children need to be sent to bed now since they're acting like immature 4 year olds. |
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
Forums Superstar Posts: 16941 |
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Wow so mature ikillchicken, now are those two fingers your brain cell count as well? I mean seriously, is the best insult you can do give me two little pictures of a middle finger? My 6 year old cousin can do better then that. All you're doing is displaying your own ignorance and immaturity. Really quite pathetic honestly.
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ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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Suck My Balls. I tried intelligent arguements. All that got me is a reputation as a stubborn jerk. So... |
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